[member="Braith Achlys"]
Adenn Kyramud, on 20 Nov 2019 - 11:49 PM, said:
The problem for many is that Rey beat Kylo so easily and was able to use the Force just like that. It's plausible if you say that Kylo was extremely exhausted from his prior fights and trauma not so long ago, but still stretching it. However, I'll ignore that for now
Neat. You're going to casually ignore the reason why Rey got away in her duel with Kylo because it doesn't suit your narrative. That's pretty par for the course in this thread though.
If you're going to quote someone, please include the entire sentence and the context thereof, otherwise you will fall into the same thing you accuse me of now, ignoring the reason because it doesn't suit your narrative. Below I shall list the entire passage where this quote is in, and then below that I shall explain myself.
Adenn Kyramud said:
s others here have stated, and we all know, Rey defeated Kylo for various reasons, part of it plot. I can see both sides of the arguments and believe that it makes sense and doesn't make sense that she beat him. Rey was indeed fresh and hadn't fought yet, so she was still full of energy. Kylo on the other hand, he had just killed his father, taken a blast from a wookie bowcaster and fought on, while also running through the forest and having another fight. Therein my problem is the fact that Finn managed to hold his own against Kylo, but that's another argument entirely. The problem for many is that Rey beat Kylo so easily and was able to use the Force just like that. It's plausible if you say that Kylo was extremely exhausted from his prior fights and trauma not so long ago, but still stretching it. However, I'll ignore that for now and say, sure, it's possible that Rey was strong enough in the Force to find her zen and be able to use it after someone told her she could. However implausible it may be, it's still a possibility that shouldn't be ignored completely.
First, if you'd direct your attention to the first few words of the sentence, "The problem for many..." meaning that many people find this to be a problem. I myself didn't state in this paragraph whether I agreed or disagreed with it, though I can say that I didn't like the way it was written and played out. The simply fact of the matter is this, many people find it a problem that Rey beat Kylo, while others say that it was logical due to him being exhausted for said reasons. Most people don't state those reasons, which is why I said it'd be possible. People dislike that she beat him so easily, yes he was wounded, yes he was tired mentally, physically, and emotionally, but he was still fully trained, more so than Rey was at the time of time. I am merely stating what many people believe the problem is, that she beat him so easily, then I go into why some say it's good that she beat Kylo.
"It's plausible if you say that Kylo was extremely exhausted from his prior fights and trauma not so long ago, but still stretching it." Yes, Kylo was exhausted, but he still had training, both lightsaber, Force training, no doubt mental preparations as well, and more. We don't see this in the movies, correct, but to become the leader of a powerful order of Force users, IE the Knights of Ren, one must be strong in more ways than one. However, going back to what you said, let's continue on with the sentences. "However, I'll ignore that for now and say, sure, it's possible that Rey was strong enough in the Force to find her zen and be able to use it after someone told her she could." I said I'd ignore it, and what I was ignoring was the stretching of Rey being able to beat Kylo, it was after all the last thing I said. To add onto proving this, my next words are here. "However, I'll ignore that for now and say, sure, it's possible that Rey was strong enough in the Force to find her zen and be able to use it after someone told her she could." With this very sentence, I'm agreeing that it's possible that she could beat him if he truly was so exhausted, however, you conveniently forgot that when you quoted me, instead only having the first part, and thus not using my words the way I said them, but to "suit your narrative," as you said I was doing.
Here is my fully post regarding this,
#26. Next I'll address some things you said.
A: Training
Tathra Khaeus, on 03 Dec 2019 - 5:22 PM, said:
Tathra Khaeus said:
And why would he barely have any in Episode 2? He went from 9 to 20. That's 11 years!
Off screen training time. You refuse to allow the possibility for Rey to have training because we don't explicitly get shown it in the movies, so I am giving you the same ridiculous measure in regards to her predecessors.
Yes, Anakins training was off screen, but it was between 2 movies, Episode 1 and Episode 2, where 11 years passed. With Rey, that was from 1 minute to the next. TFA ended with Rey holding the lightsaber out to Luke, and TLJ started with Luke taking the lightsaber. No time passed between the two movies. If there was any off screen training, it was not mentioned, and at most it'd be a few weeks, not the years that Kylo, Luke, and Anakin all had. No one is refusing the possibility that Rey had off screen training, people are simply saying that she didn't have anywhere near the same level of training as the other characters.
Anakin, 11 years of training, 3 years of war where one learns even more about fighting, flying since before he could walk.
First time he flew an actual ship, was on autopilot, had help from R2, crashed, and landed before the generator by accident(plot convenience).
First lightsaber fight, lost badly, lost his hand, nearly died.
Luke, flying for years and years, particularly in one of the most dangerous are on Tatooine, Beggars Canyon. He flew Skyhoppers, with controls very similar to X-Wings. His first target, 2 meter big hole the size of a womprat, which he bullseyed in his skyhopper. When he first flew his X-Wing, it didn't go well, nearly shot down, only saved by the help of others. Eventually learns to fly better, though he did have trouble when he went to Dagobah, but he did receive training there. When he next fought Vader, he lost, badly.
Rey, scavenger, some training with her staff from no doubt fighting off other scavengers. No doubt has some technical knowledge because she's been taking ships and other scraps apart her entire life, so I can understand the scene where she takes something out of the Falcon. Flies the Falcon as well as Han and Chewie did, held her own and almost beat Kylo, or did beat Kylo, depending on who you ask. She did cut him rather badly, and he was the one who lost the planet.
That's the 3 main characters people have been discussing and mentioning. As you can see, these notes are from what I know about the characters based on the movies. If any of these characters have had more training in the movies, not in books, comics, etc., then by all means, mention it. But from what I've said and know based on the movies, Luke and Anakin have had more training than Rey, but Rey is on a similar level to them without any training, and if there is training, a few weeks perhaps.
B: Sexism
I don't believe anyone here is sexist towards men or women, however you and others have brought it up, claiming, without proof, that these people are sexist towards women. Now, I don't know why you say this, nor do I know why others say this, but I'm positive for most people it's not a matter of men or women, it's a matter of a characters story, and how interesting they are. Those that bring sex into the discussion, regardless of what they believe, don't contribute anything, and are ultimately sexist themselves. So please, let's not make claims about people being sexism simply because they say one thing about a character that you disagree with. Thanks
