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Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Feedback Partial Mapwipe Poll
- Thread starter Valiens Nantaris
- Start date
So for future reference maybe we should try to keep a clear head while discussing this, yea? Thinking the current train this is going isn’t gonna end well. Dislike the vibes right now.
Chancellor Emerita / Advisor of State
Well... At least until we outnumber them by a margin greater than 46% to 47%, that is. Lol. Jk. That's mean.
Well, crucially, the ACTUAL percentage total is 50% to 43.5% if you weed out all the double and triple votes... But... Ya know, point taken.
post tenebris lux
Hailyn
The constant and unending toil of dominions for the sake of dominions just to paint the map detracts from the amazing possibilities that present themselves in a collaborative storytelling environment as great as Chaos. Territory shouldn't be the end-all-be-all, story should be. I know that has been said a billion times, but we're finally seeing sincere and constructive discussion on this again and it's honestly as refreshing as it is exciting.
We have some great proposals currently going that could shake up the map game big time and get people to focus on writing stories between factions again, rather than in shut-off dominions that, ultimately, never go anywhere. This territory decay will open up unused hexes and planets for new factions to utilize and fight over and it can easily be done seldom enough that factions won't be forced to constantly re-dom territory that is essential to their faction's story (especially when picking the hexes to be axed).
Making the map more dynamic and faster-paced (affecting change on the current map occurs at a GLACIAL pace) will hopefully encourage factions to keep reinventing themselves in new and exciting ways while constantly creating more opportunities for factions to interact and tell amazing stories. It's a collaborative endeavour after all, and dominions for the sake of dominions to keep expanding some imaginary blob just stagnates all manner of possible storylines that never get to see the light of day because of that.
W A N D E R
Jsc
I'm not putting any words in your mouth.
But that's besides the point.
There's an issue with crowding in the map, so when a compromised solution is brought up for vote, people who have a vested interest in keeping territory (or some strange nostalgia for hexes that have had 1 thread made on them in the last 6 months) come out against this, claiming the map isn't as crowded as it was when Netherworld happened. So we shared some side-by-sides, where the map is actually as much, or more, crowded than it was then. So then the goal posts shift to not wanting to dominion again, even though it was stated to be "not difficult", because factions are "tired" of doing dominions and want a cap on territory instead, so that they can focus on other things... even though nobody is forcing the CIS or TSE or OPA to do dominions, and yet all three of us have dominions going, and have had them going every month since our factions went major.
Maybe this confused you, because the goalpost got moved so far from where it was originally: factions are growing horizontally and not vertically, they're taking up space and are not using it, and they don't want to let go of it but are okay with a limit on how big they can get because it would mean they wouldn't have to focus on something they already don't have to focus on.
Do you see the circular logic there?
We all know that nobody is going to support a cap on major faction size, the hope is to drown this discussion/vote loudly enough so that the cap goes up for vote (or is just dismissed outright) and this all goes away and then the same factions complaining about not wanting to do dominions will just go right back to doing dominions again.
Kainan Wolfe
Shadow of War
I think people are missing the problem. We are where we are because of a lack of interaction between factions. A map wipe will not solve this issue, because it will only encourage factions to focus on dominions to get their territory back. Yes, things move at a glacial pace. They will always move at a glacial place in a community of 150+ members because getting everyone organized is difficult.
I think another big issue may be invasions, themselves. Right now, there is very little incentive to do an invasion. They require a lot more posts, are much more difficult to plan and set up, all for the potential gain of one (possibly 2, depending on mandate) hex. So why bother with all that, when you can just do dominions to gain a hex for 50-or-so posts? From a statistical point of view, I can also tell that dominions seem to be far more popular than regular faction threads, right now
I would propose, instead, the following: revamp invasions a little to make them more meaningful. Increase the amount of hexes that can be targeted by an invasion, so that more territory can be taken with one invasion.
Additionally: board events. Grand narratives unfolding across the board, perhaps grouping factions together to deal with them (i.e. one event thread for 2-3 factions). What we need is more interaction between factions, not a map wipe, since lack of interaction is the heart of the problem, here.
I think another big issue may be invasions, themselves. Right now, there is very little incentive to do an invasion. They require a lot more posts, are much more difficult to plan and set up, all for the potential gain of one (possibly 2, depending on mandate) hex. So why bother with all that, when you can just do dominions to gain a hex for 50-or-so posts? From a statistical point of view, I can also tell that dominions seem to be far more popular than regular faction threads, right now
I would propose, instead, the following: revamp invasions a little to make them more meaningful. Increase the amount of hexes that can be targeted by an invasion, so that more territory can be taken with one invasion.
Additionally: board events. Grand narratives unfolding across the board, perhaps grouping factions together to deal with them (i.e. one event thread for 2-3 factions). What we need is more interaction between factions, not a map wipe, since lack of interaction is the heart of the problem, here.
Jsc
Disney's Princess
Hailyn
- Perception is a powerful thing.Do I think there is an issue with crowding on the map? Nah. I don't. But... Ah ha. Can you convince everybody that there is and then fix that problem? Yes. I do believe you can. And I believe that is exactly what is happening in this thread, right this very moment. And, so convincing are we in our earnestness that soon I do believe we will have a majority of people who do believe that the map is crowded, and that we really do need to do something about it. Haha. As such. Who am I to stand in the way? Nobody. So give the people what they want.
Anyway. It is my great hope that your argument convinces members of every Major Faction in earnest, all across the board. Otherwise I fear that we would be taking from them that which they did not yield willing. And yet, Perhaps. I suppose even Ulkahall Svaraghaun has a valid point in his assumption. That all is fair in love and war. That when you sign up to play the Map Game. Nothing is sacred. Such is the nature of Chaos.
Oh well. Kark it. ...When in Rome!
jumps on the wipe wagon with everybody else
W A N D E R
Vytal Noctura
N I G H T M O T H E R
No one likes to lose. No one especially likes to lose when they spend time building something up. So, if the intention is to make things more dynamic, perhaps establish Protected Worlds (like capitol hexes) that are more difficult to invade and aren't lost due to cloud breaks. Only a few (number based on some criteria) or an entire cloud is suddenly 'protected' which defeats the point. Now a faction can build up their core, and maybe they'll be less worried about that 'L' in an invasion. Maybe they'll be able to breathe a little easier in an invasion.
The option for an agreed upon outcome, or the option to go uncontested (though I'd recommend allowing for a 3 week suspension of follow-up invasion to account for the time that would have been spent) might even be possible. Maybe there's a tactical decision in accepting the 'L' up front -- for story purposes or for breathing space.
So if someone invades that undeveloped ball of rock in a hex, a faction can weigh whether they should respond. Maybe they don't. Maybe Germany invades Poland and everyone crosses their fingers it stops there. Oh, but then it doesn't. Now you have a war.
Maybe none of that happens and major factions fight tooth and nail over every hex because their members spend time and effort claiming it, and the faction doesn't want a gap in their cloud. But if there's a reluctance to invasions (because they are a time sink, they chew up two weeks straight not counting the one week prep which is far and above the commitment demanded of a dom) there'll need to be something that's a give and take to encourage people to be less reluctant.
As for the poll: will a partial map wipe help? If there was a minor faction desperately wishing for a particular planet... maybe. Except 25% of a cloud means there's still a good chance that particular planet stays claimed. Also a good chance whoever pops up is going to still end up in a tight spot (since no one's taking the North North West open area) and we all end up here again in short order but with a slightly more colorful map.
The option for an agreed upon outcome, or the option to go uncontested (though I'd recommend allowing for a 3 week suspension of follow-up invasion to account for the time that would have been spent) might even be possible. Maybe there's a tactical decision in accepting the 'L' up front -- for story purposes or for breathing space.
So if someone invades that undeveloped ball of rock in a hex, a faction can weigh whether they should respond. Maybe they don't. Maybe Germany invades Poland and everyone crosses their fingers it stops there. Oh, but then it doesn't. Now you have a war.
Maybe none of that happens and major factions fight tooth and nail over every hex because their members spend time and effort claiming it, and the faction doesn't want a gap in their cloud. But if there's a reluctance to invasions (because they are a time sink, they chew up two weeks straight not counting the one week prep which is far and above the commitment demanded of a dom) there'll need to be something that's a give and take to encourage people to be less reluctant.
As for the poll: will a partial map wipe help? If there was a minor faction desperately wishing for a particular planet... maybe. Except 25% of a cloud means there's still a good chance that particular planet stays claimed. Also a good chance whoever pops up is going to still end up in a tight spot (since no one's taking the North North West open area) and we all end up here again in short order but with a slightly more colorful map.
we shall all die willingly
Chancellor Emerita / Advisor of State
There are now 9 double or triple votes for no. Just to keep everyone apprised...
Valiens Nantaris
Head Admin
Adhira Chandra
Disappointing, but when the poll closes I will go through and remove duplicates.
Anybody who had voted with a duplicate, I strongly suggest removing the excess votes before it closes. A cheap, yet easily discovered ploy will earn you no favours.
A lesson for next time; make everyone vote with their writer account.
THE UNDEFEATED
Also this should be factions with over 35 at least.
Our smaller Factions are not the issue.
Our smaller Factions are not the issue.
Kainan Wolfe
Shadow of War
Haastal Haran
R A I D E R
I mean, I think it sounds cute. Wipe the map of the large major factions and suddenly the map will flourish?
The major factions will lose their territory, work to dom it back, and all that will happen is some people who have been working hard for months will be agitated because they lost hexes because they were working too hard? People say things like "the map is stagnant" and automatically it's a shot towards the major factions who have been on the board the longest. But shouldn't it be only natural that the factions with the most time and work in are larger than the smaller, newer factions. If anything these factions deserve kudos, because they're not like the multitude of major factions who popped up and then died out. They're meeting the activity requirement, they're having invasions, they're expanding their borders. Why punish them? Their presence in no way inhibits smaller factions. In the end the hexes have no representation of power to the map game, it's the writers who are the power. As much as I dislike certain factions on the board I cannot argue with their results. Because they have determined writers. So maybe we should fix the way we as writers are handling the map game, instead of trying to change everything up?
The major factions will lose their territory, work to dom it back, and all that will happen is some people who have been working hard for months will be agitated because they lost hexes because they were working too hard? People say things like "the map is stagnant" and automatically it's a shot towards the major factions who have been on the board the longest. But shouldn't it be only natural that the factions with the most time and work in are larger than the smaller, newer factions. If anything these factions deserve kudos, because they're not like the multitude of major factions who popped up and then died out. They're meeting the activity requirement, they're having invasions, they're expanding their borders. Why punish them? Their presence in no way inhibits smaller factions. In the end the hexes have no representation of power to the map game, it's the writers who are the power. As much as I dislike certain factions on the board I cannot argue with their results. Because they have determined writers. So maybe we should fix the way we as writers are handling the map game, instead of trying to change everything up?
M E A T B A G
Punishing people by giving them the chance to develop new stories and add to the narrative foundations they've already established?
Damn, that's twisted.
Damn, that's twisted.
Haastal Haran
R A I D E R
Forcing* Not giving a chance.
M E A T B A G
No one's forcing anything, though. When any faction signs up to become a major faction - they're willingly volunteering to participate in the map game. It's in the proverbial terms of service.
If people wanted to stick solely to just writing stories? There's no one forcing them to remain on the map. Minor factions, or story groups are just as fun to be a part of as major factions.
If people wanted to stick solely to just writing stories? There's no one forcing them to remain on the map. Minor factions, or story groups are just as fun to be a part of as major factions.
Terminus Est
Let's be real here, territory is arbitrary.
M E A T B A G
The moment that dominions, faction threads, or invasions are considered a chore, and are treated like work - maybe folks should take a step back and check themselves. We're here to have fun and write stories that enrich the universe we've chosen to roleplay in, and the site that we populate. Just because folks lose a bit of colour on the map, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If folks or factions really wanted that territory - they'd fight to get it back. They'd devise new and interesting storylines to get their memberbase involved.
Just like they should now, regardless of this poll. The system isn't really the problem, it's the people using it. I see this poll as a way to light a fire under our ass to remind us of why we're here in the first place.
Just like they should now, regardless of this poll. The system isn't really the problem, it's the people using it. I see this poll as a way to light a fire under our ass to remind us of why we're here in the first place.