Feedback Partial Mapwipe Poll

[Ulkahall Svaraghaun]

looks at map

Wait. How are we being oppressed again? No seriously. Can anybody show me, somebody, anybody, who is being oppressed right now. I just need one person. One, real, actual person. Not a fantasy of "but stories". Not a beautiful utopia of "but potential narratives" wrapped in rainbow farts and children's laughter. Not one more useless opinion about how "Metus should live his life". I mean, just one person, one tiny circumstance, of oppression and tyranny, because the map is colorful.

Because. I don't think any of us is actually oppressed right now. I think we're all bored, or just find the current meta distasteful, or think we get to tell Metus how he should live his life. Because, yeah. No. "The map is crowded" is not an actual problem. Narratives are not victims. And none of us are oppressed because somebody else is successful, at playing, a map, game.

If all this fuss is just about finding a fleeting majority opinion. That a "crowded" map is simply "too distasteful to bear". I'm seriously, seriously worried about our communal mental health right now. Umph.

Again, sorry to keep commenting on your posts, I get what you're trying to say, but the tone of this message really is off putting. I'm not saying your thoughts and opinions aren't valid, but this comes off as kinda passive aggressive.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Judah Lesan and Jsc cut to the heart of this whole 'proposal', there's little more that needs be discussed at this point.

 

[Bernard of Arca]

There's a lot that needs to be discussed still. There seem to be plenty of reasons why people aren't happy with the state of the map and the game attached to it, which have wide-reaching consequences to their enjoyment of the board as a whole. Getting together to discuss these issues in civil and constructive manners is exactly what needs to continue.

Darth Carnifex

 

[Hailyn]

Jsc
It's literally the one thing people base their decisions on.

We're on a role-playing forum, what other reason is there to base a decision off of than potential story avenues? Why should I need to feel oppressed to want to be able to find a reason to use 25 hexes in my cloud every quarter? Why should a minor faction need to be oppressed to want to have room to go major?

I don't even really care that strongly about whether this gets added to flashpoints or not, but every excuse of why not to do it makes me want it more.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

If all this fuss is just about finding a fleeting majority opinion.

JSC confirmed for closet fleeter supremacist.

 

[Kiff Brayde]

All a map wipe does is just perpetuate the grind of dominions and force a narrative of somehow losing 25% of your territory. If I had to be honest, I do know that there are complaints about ‘there not being enough room for new MFs,’ but I haven’t seen any instance where a major faction has been truly hampered in territory grabbing. Perhaps a revisit to the invasion and rebellion rules to make that a more viable way to gain territory, versus just OOC killing off hexes? Or even a hex cap, just no map wipe please.

 

[Jsc]

Ulkahall Svaraghaun - I'm sorry you feel that way. I'll try to be softer with my harshness in the future. However, mistake not my harshness for cruelty. I aim to push gently. Alas, one must push on the door hard enough that it opens, or push not on the door at all. I am pushing Ulkahali. I am pushing.

Hailyn - People. Writers. They who create to be held above that which they create. The equality of one man's opinion towards the game to be held in fair weight against anothers. Judged equally. Nothing wavering.

For what is a Hex but a Dom. And what is a Dom but a story. And what is that story but the contribution of multiple writers, and passions, and work. Look at yourself. That which we now seek to take is that which you now claim is your motivation for the taking. Where is the reason in that. Why amend the rules every single time somebody cries "wolf" or "but story" or "but narrative" or "but I wanna, I wanna". Look at what you are destroying Alekto. Look at the CIS cloud. Now look at Metus' face. Do you not see a person there? The work, and respect, and passion, for all that he has built. Nay, endured. Have a care Alekto. For the reason we must stay our hand, to dispense with these silly witch-hunts for endless and endless solutions to problems that aren't even real, and to end this cycle of trying to solve each other fantasies and allusions is because we are people Alektos. We are real. And that which we create. Does not control us.

Cyrus Tregessar - Not until you figure me out a way that I can fly an X-Wing into a corvette inside a destoryer inside an SSD, and actually enter the all the ship's hanger bays in sequential order, without exploding. Then. We'll talk.

 

[Ariel Yvarro]

You get to pick the hexes you're losing, and if you don't want to write a narrative about it then don't. Don't want to redom the planets/hexes because you're tired of them? Then don't literally, just don't. Let the rest of those who want to take the opportunity presented and write stories around it, do that. You guys wouldn't have to do anything that just choose the hexes you want to lose. You could pick the ones on the inside of your cloud that ensures you don't have to worry about some taking that spot.

I get it, I get being super invested into territory and into what you have but at the end of the day it's just a color on a map where we all come and write fan fiction about. It's easy to get upset about it and throw hands because you think you're getting something taken away from you and at the end of the day you're not. This is a website, where we come to write stories and role-play, these would just be avenues of doing that. Don't wanna deal with it? Don't. After all the map shouldn't be the reason behind your story, your story should be the reason why the map changes.

 

[Ulkahall Svaraghaun]

Look at what you are destroying Alekto. Look at the CIS cloud. Now look at Metus' face. Do you not see a person there? The work, and respect, and passion, for all that he has built. Nay, endured. Have a care Alekto. For the reason we must stay our hand, to dispense with these silly witch-hunts for endless and endless solutions to problems that aren't even real, and to end this cycle of trying to solve each other fantasies and allusions is because we are people Alektos. We are real. And that which we create. Does not control us.

It is my understanding that when you make a faction and then go major, you're essentially signing away the idea that your faction will last forever. Do I respect the worldbuilding and effort put into the CIS and their cloud? Yes. Do I think that they deserve to have that forever just because they built in it a space where the agreed upon nature is shifting change? No.

No faction should keep their cloud just because of pure effort, especially ages after that effort was originally spent. Everything breaks, everything dies. Characters, major factions, anything and everything in writing should have an end goal. Is the CIS, as a faction, impressive? Yes.

That does not give them the right to live past their prime, this goes for any faction. I don't hate Metus, honestly I'm only assuming via context here that they're the original creator of the CIS, but the arguement that factions shouldn't be knocked down because of passion is fruitless. It disengages the argument by trying to push it on an pathos direction directed at an individual.

Nothing on Metus, nothing on the CIS, nothing on any faction, but by the nature of the map game, you do not have the right to continue existing just because you put in the effort how many years back. You sign that right away the moment you decide to go major.

If it's just a couple jarbonis holding onto shit, not saying anyone is, but the moment a major faction hits that, or even hits the point where their narrative prime has fallen and efforts have been displaced, they do not have the right to keep kicking just because they were passionate at one point.

This, however, is not the discussion that this thread was meant for. This is not the discussion that we created this thread for. This thread is for the basic concept of an annual map wipe, not if factions have worth simply due to the nature of someone putting work behind them, which, they do, but is purposeless in a space like the map game.

 

[Hailyn]

Jsc
Okay? So because the CIS has 2 less hexes than TSE means I should feel bad that when TSE loses 25 hexes that so does CIS?

I'm sorry, what?

Are you insinuating that the CIS has put in more effort to being where they are than TSE? Or are you implying that, because you think that, the CIS should have a greater share of my sympathy than my own faction and the potential I can give to them? Or to the people who are looking at the entire right half of the map that is occupied and being forced to stay minor because large major factions dominion hexes they never use again?

Everyone here is complaining about the prospect of having to do dominions, about being tired of doing dominions - then why on earth did all of these factions do so many of them? I keep seeing people bringing up the definition of insanity, but it appears to me that everyone here is perfectly aware that dominions in excess are horribly dull and boring, and yet they continue to do them. Even now every single faction on the forum is engaged in a dominion. And some of them are in more than one at once.

Does this look like a forum where its writers are above "that which we create"?
​

No. Everyone here is a slave to the big splotchy colors on the map. Deny it all you want, but the proof is in your own posts. You all contribute to it every single day, every single month. How many major factions that submitted their activity checks had less than 50% of their faction's activity in dominions?

Come on, let's use real numbers, facts, and figures if you want to tell me that major factions aren't addicted to doing dominions.

 

[Jsc]

Nothing on Metus, nothing on the CIS, nothing on any faction, but by the nature of the map game, you do not have the right to continue existing just because you put in the effort how many years back. You sign that right away the moment you decide to go major.

This is silly. Nobody signed anything just because you "think" they did.

I'm disappointed.


Hailyn - No. I'm not insinuating. I am pointing out, rather rationally, that: "because future stories" is not a reason to throw away "past stories." And I brought up Metus to show you that there are real people on the other side of the aisle who might take courtesy with your opinion. Which is fine.

And I would like to say, proudly, that I respect you voicing your opinion in this thread. Thank you.

 

[Ulkahall Svaraghaun]

This is silly. Nobody signed anything just because you "think" they did.

I'm disappointed.

I would really want to engage you on this, but I don’t think we’re talking from the same places here. Respectfully, I don’t think that’s a strong defense against what has always seemed like an unspoken rule of the map game and of RP as a concept. You will lose what you create, eventually. It happens to everyone eventually. Either through narrative death or personal drive. Or, in cases like this, a compromise that doesn’t even sign the death bill of a faction.

What does the CIS maybe losing some of their hexes have to do with how much effort some dude put into them if all factions on similar footing are getting the same treatment? What is a couple hexes to the CIS? Or is the argument here that the territorial integrity of the CIS is the only redeemable quality of the efforts put into it by its writers? Because that’s kinda the vibe I’m getting from this line of reasoning.

 

[Jsc]

I don’t think that’s a strong defense against what has always seemed like an unspoken rule of the map game and of RP as a concept.

Again. We the community are not responsible to act according to your assumptions. Either we signed something or we did not. And we did not. Thus, I will not further entertain any more of your assumptions, at this time.

Maybe. Laterrr. December work for you? Jk. I'm horrible.

 

[Hailyn]

Jsc
So then should we get rid of invasions, rebellions, diplomacy threads, faction recalls, and all other means of losing hexes and territory because they "throw away old stories"?

The old stories don't get thrown away when the hexes return to neutral. Those hexes still exist, those threads still exist. Nothing of substance was lost. A faction loses territory, a faction chooses whether or not they try to get it back. If, using your example, someone invaded 25 of the CIS' hexes over the course of the next 3 months and somehow won all of them and they were all turned neutral, would that invalidate the dominions used to get those planets, because the new stories (invasions) threw out the old ones (dominions)?

No. Just like your other example, that's not how that works.

 

[Ulkahall Svaraghaun]

Again. We the community are not responsible to act according to your assumptions. Either we signed something or we did not. And we did not. Thus, I will not further entertain any more of your assumptions, at this time.

Maybe. Laterrr. December work for you? Jk. I'm horrible.

Again, this kinda approach really isn’t conducive to a healthy discussion.

but uh, have a good one I guess.

 

[Adhira Chandra]

I won't tag anyone, but it is probably worth pointing out that some people seem so incensed by this idea that they have voted as many as three times. This is unfortunate when the purpose of the poll is to gauge genuine interest in a storyline like this and I think worth noting who these folks are voting multiple times...

Edit: So far, the actual vote tally would be
31 - Yes
27 - No

Though this was just discovered so I haven't looked at everything.

Valiens Nantaris

 

[Ulkahall Svaraghaun]

^ That was something I was worried about, probably should be regulated somehow

 

[Jsc]

Hailyn - Nah.

I'm speaking directly to Valiens idea posted at the beginning of this thread as it pertains to being a solution for any real problem other than "I think the map is crowded and I hate it".

And, just by way of invitation. Would you, stop insinuating that I'm saying something, then start burning down that fictional argument, and then blaming me for it. I'm, really not that clever tbh.

 

[Hailyn]

Jsc
I have literally paraphrased your previous points in every single post I've made with a tag to you.

By way of invitation, could you stop pretending the only argument being made is "the map is crowded and I hate it"?

Thanks.

 

[Jsc]

Hailyn - You have not paraphrased my opinions. You have placed new ones in my mouth and called them mine and asked me to defend them. Which I didn't. Because that wasn't what I was saying. And, then you did a thing about everybody being addicted to dominions or something and I got very confused with your train of thought on that one. Anyway. Sarcasm detected. So I'll stop it here.

My point is that nothing is wrong, nobody is oppressed, no stories are in danger, and we could probably leave the Major Faction clouds alone for now, and probably let this discussion rest for a bit. Well... At least until we outnumber them by a margin greater than 46% to 47%, that is. Lol. Jk. That's mean.