Balancing Reportabellions

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

What happened to my company? If you're referring to me having to move buildings, cities, or story origins, that was retconning. It was due to OOC harassments, it had not a lick to do with IC. The reason it involved the map because even though I was off the beaten path of the map and on a slightly useless planet, an individual that owned a faction decided to threaten me and destroy everything I ever made because they didn't like me




EDIT:

[member="Darth Tacitus"]
I like the suggestion with replacing color with permanently stationed forces. It woukd also entice realistic numbers be used in battles. Example: "You already have a number of ships on patrol. This counts to a realistic limit. You can pull ships from those positions temporarily to help in a battle but they leave that sector or planet less defended."

And then we get realistic battles, tense situations, epic scenes from the Clone Wars and some from the movies. I... I love your suggestion. This would also eliminate super handwaved armies that never mattered anyway, and would make ship battles more useful to rules AND freaking fun! It's like Galactic Conquest!

 

[Aryn Teth]

I’m actually a lot more in favour of this idea than I am now in my own previous suggestion. Rebellions can be super big and cool things, and I feel like limiting a rebellion to one per minor faction puts a whole lot more weight behind them, and makes them a whole lot cooler as a result while limiting their ability to be used for OOC reasons.

I would honestly say I agree with getting rid of the influence clouds too to kill the map game but, let’s be honest, that’s never gonna happen.

Minor factions still have plenty of ability to fight major factions story-wise; that’s what skirmishes are for, rebellions should be major and impactful, but because of that, they should be rare.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"]

That could have happened regardless of faction stuff. Said person would have found a way to do it, anyway. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[member="Aryn Teth"]

I fully agree with what you said about rebellions and skirmishes.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Aryn Teth"]

I'd suggest not just one ever. But maybe, a rebellion is more costly yes. But not necessarily only a one off.
There can be other repercussions but in place to add more weight without limiting further rebellions.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]


Well, it was a longterm relationship long before it happened anyway. Aside from that, I edited my last post.

[member="Tathra Khaeus"]

How thicc a permanent defense force/patrol in a sector could influence minors to make full, realistic fleets to fight with. And if strong enough, sure, let them try and fight a full navy. Aka, let them attack *whenever they want* with approved fleets, taking into account of already made minor faction fleet rules and approved fleets. Make majors make fleets for every sector/planet they want to stake claim in. No more outrageous numbers, more realistic, intense and epic battles fighting tooth and nail!

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"]

In regards to stationed forces and handwaved armies: This is why fleet/army caps should be discussed before hand, out of character. I don't feel that stationed forces would/should be how this is done, it'd only complicate things. When a major faction brings all of its fleeters to an invasion, it doesn't mean that their entire fleet is there, only the PC fleet. For story purposes, it can easily be assumed that said faction has other fleets in their sectors, securing things. Afterall, there are no hard site-wide caps on how many ships a major faction can have, PC or not.

 

[Darth Bellum]

I just want a crazy undead Mandalorian to come back like the second coming of Jesus to wreak havoc across the map as Mand'alor.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

Captains/Admirals bringing their ships, with a couple escorts, that's fine. Gets a little ridiculous when 20 captains bring 3 ships each at the size of things BIGGER than standard ISDs, but alright. However, the board is already complicated. Loose rules for simplicity gets people riled up anyway.

But if we have a fully approved, strong fleet, ready to defend a sector, it opens up a door where anything can happen. Not only will fleeters benefit from this, but individuals too. You remember the Clone Wars, or Imperial scenes, where a fleet is fighting, and someone decides 'Ima save the day' and ram the engines of a ship, or dodge hundreds of fighters just to board a ship and cause some mayhem? Kill a ground general preparing to launch armies once landed, kill a Captain and force the crew to freak out or try to compensate, send an enemy ship into another ship, etc etc etc!

Oh, but wait, we have forces patroling the hex near us! Call them for reinforcement! Oh no, the sector is less defended, what if a rebellion gets through??

None of that excites you? It's realistic, it's intense, it gives more opportunities. Sure, maybe if everyone calls reinforcements to save 1 sector/hex/planet then every minor faction with approved realistic fleets will try to attack every less defended controlled hex. But... Majors wouldnt do that, right? Haha. They want to keep what they control. They will do their best to keep areas defended and prepare fleets specifically designed and designated for invasions and reinforcement.


[youtube]https://youtube.com/watch?v=8buh5A70loA[/youtube]

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"] All of that can still happen even with influence clouds. It all depends on creativity. Fleet caps should be discussed OOC between the rival faction involved in the invasion. For example, you may not like it when people bring ships much bigger than a standard ISD, but if in some invasion me and a fleeter from the rival faction both want to have a massive fleet battle with 200k of ships on either side, I say go for it. I don't see how that can ruin other participants' enjoyment or RP opportunity.

EDIT: Approved fleets and subbing fleets would only add a layer of bureaucracy that would both increase the workload that the staff has to deal with (trust me, I've been there) and it wouldn't solve any of the issues you just mentioned. Only thing that prevents awesome scenarios like what you mention from happening, is individual creativity. More limitations and forms that need to be subbed for approval, will only add unnecessary layers of complexity and would not reduce any OOC drama.

EDIT 2: Anyway, we've gone too far offtopic.

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

No, actually, we haven't. A big problem with minor factions is there is no activity check. And when it comes to rebellions, you're letting just about every/any faction do anything. Get into any rebellion. Sure there's kinda like a minimum amount of people, like, 5 right? That's meaningless for commitment to one rebellion.


And no, I feel a hard, real limit should be set for all factions. Even if we do it like 10,000 meters max for all ships per planet or per hex or something. That way a major has to decide carefully where it wants to out its patrols/defense fleets and save enough for offensive fleets. Then minors can assist with smaller fleets, but may make a difference in offense or defense, and makes allies even far more important because they can 100% change the way battles work. Require factions to have some sort of relationship with outsiders and really make them crunch how they want to act with others.

Right now, hexes are "nope, nuh uh, its my color, you cant do anything about it" aside from an invasion. And that colored hex makes drama because people feel they are in power and can decide the fate of ANYONE or any thing they see fit.


Changing the system from clouds to military caps, I feel, would make a considerable positive impact on the board, keep the board game for pride hungry people, but force them to change attitude or risk losing what they fought for it makes the risk/loss consequences greater and provides battles people WANT to engage in. Right now we have roleplay based fights, and last I checked, fights don't even count towards a win condition. This woukd reintroduce fights. And whether that is a duel, or boarding a ship, fighting your way to the bridge and killing a captain, or shios facing off in the middle of chaos where anything could happen, people will throw their explosions in the mix.

This is Star Wars. Wars are part of it. Correct. Militaries have always made an impact and are nigh required for star wars as seen by, like, every publication. Correct. But, miliaries are not infant, can not poof into existence from thin air. They shoukd be entirely integral to the stiry and roleplaying. We shoukd give them a fitting role.

Wars matter, militaries matter. Let's fit them in properly.


[youtube]https://youtube.com/watch?v=jUpB2MkLNLE[/youtube]

 

[Eralam]

For better or worse, the map game is inextricably linked to Chaos.

On the surface, removing influence clouds really does seem like a good idea. The salt mined from invasions could season meals the world over until the heat death of the universe. With a few notable exceptions, invasions tend to be miserable, bloody affairs that can be likened to beating one's head against the wall. It doesn't actually hurt the wall any, but damned if it doesn't feel good to stop.

Having said that, removing the influence clouds altogether doesn't just remove the salt from the map game, it lobotomizes it.

On some level, we all know that we're just using make believe characters to color in a little hex on the map, and when you put it like that, it's stupid. But, if you want to reduce things down that much, all RP is stupid, and we should all give it up and go do something productive with our lives.

Influence clouds are a visible measure of a faction's progress. The map game is just that: a game. It's a massively multiplayer free for all where bands of writers work together towards a common goal. It breeds competition and conflict, which in turn feed back into the game and drive the writers of any given faction to work that much harder. It also provides real stakes. If you lose an invasion, you lose a hex or, in the event of a cloudbreak, a great many of them.

Take that away and you take away the impetus to have a faction in the first place.

Yes, of course, groups of people will still write with each other. Stories will be told. But without the motivation to work with and against other factions, those stories will become increasingly insular. People stop trying to push conflict because there's no point. Nothing tangible is gained or lost, and there's nothing to stop one side or the other getting bored and vanishing halfway through. Unless someone steps up and DMs a campaign from start to finish, the overarching narrative that drives the community withers and dies. This isn't just idle speculation, by the way. I watched it happen.

There's nothing wrong with reducing the stress of the map game to a degree. Using dominions and invasions as an absolute measure of faction activity places undue emphasis on gaining and controlling territory. If a faction wants to take and hold a few hexes against all comers, let them, so long as they demonstrate their activity in other ways.

But the instant you completely eliminate that seed of competition that fuels Chaos, you kill the very thing that keeps it alive, and that will keep it alive for years to come. Down that road lies a slow and painful death. I don't particularly care to watch that again.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"]

I will have to disagree with everything you said, except minor faction checks (which can be solved through either the way Tefka suggested, or have a rebellion require restricted missions beforehand).

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Darth Tacitus"]

Okay.


[member="Eralam"]

I just don't think everyone and their mother are here for the board game. I remember a post by Tefka once talking about invasions/new major factions slowing down, but that was just in the map game. The rest of the board was still alive and prospering.

The map game is an add-on to attract people who want more Galactic Conquest than just their little padawan growing up and learning the difference between good and bad.

And people want that and I can't tell them they are wrong. People play fortnite and battlefield and minecraft. They aren't games on my top list though there are features I may or may not enjoy.

But while there is "Minecraft" there's that thing called "Minecraft Hunger Games" different flavor for different people.

But Chaos... I don't think its bloodline is the Map. I could agree it might be a lung, it might be part of a brain, but Chaos stands on its own two feet. I don't find the map game to be any foot or leg. Then again, it's just my opinion.

But if the map game is what keeps this board alive, if it's what this board is about, then I've misjudged it and it probably isn't for me. I don't want to come here and fight and fight and fight. I want to create stories, I want to go on adventures with friends. I want to explore and grow in this fantastic world. Yes, conflict is a given, but I don't think everyone should always resort to conflict to get their mouths smiling, or to fulfill some goal that is nothing but competition. That isn't roleplay for me. Even in D&D, there's conflict. But there's more to it than just fighting.

 

[Eralam]

There are plenty of people who are content to never set foot in an invasion. Having had my fill of them, I'm personally not keen to do it again myself. For people like that, there are ways to tell a story that don't involve fighting. The problem is, with a few exceptions, those stories don't drive the community. They don't drive interaction. They don't force people out of their comfort zones the way that the map game does. Even if you never so much as dip your toe in a faction, if you want to interact on any meaningful level with the board as a whole, you're affected by the story being told by them.

You could, in theory, stay entirely in unclaimed space and never write with more than a handful of people. You could write magnificent stories that soar to the heights of literary perfection, stories that would make the greats weep with joy, and it wouldn't matter one bit to the rest of the board.

People, especially people who write RP, tend to crave notoriety. We wouldn't be here if we didn't seek recognition in some way. If we didn't, I'd imagine most of us would stick to writing in G-Docs. But then, what's the point? What's the point of writing the perfect story if no one is going to read it? You've got to get out there and be willing to take risks. You've got to make friends and enemies. If you want to leave any sort of impact at all, you've got to be willing to step out of your comfort zone and try something new.

And that, my friend, means engaging with the overarching story of the board. A story that is largely driven by the factions.

Every faction has their own unique flavor, and that flavor is influenced by their interactions with other factions. Once you're out in the wild, it's impossible to escape the influence those flavors will have on your story.

Businesses are especially prone to this. If you want to grow your business, interacting with factions isn't just recommended, it's mandatory. You have to be able to sign contracts to advance in tier, and that means you have to deal with the heavy hitters of the galaxy. And to do that, you've got to be mindful of alliances and wars and that sort of thing, because you don't want to contract with the wrong group. There are a million different things to consider, but it all comes back to the factions in the end.

The conflict that the map game provides is the glue that holds all that together. Take that away and it all falls apart.

At any rate, that's all I have to say on the matter. Time, alas, conspires against me.

[member="Ferron Troste"]

 

[Karacan Rigten]

[member="Eralam"]

I do keep to my corner, I do limit myself from branching out, I've taken discord out as an option, I do like roleplaying with myself. But I do have my friends like [member="Lady Kay"] [member="Ra'a'mah"] [member="Jaster of Clan Awaud"] [member="Bradshaw Ku"] [member="Veiere Arenais"] [member="Space Prius"] and they all get me out of my box at necessary times. I never have to reach out unexpectedly anymore to random people if I need something. If it's a contract, if it's a major project, expansion, growth character or otherwise, anything. Ra's bounty got me involved with the Shrouded Republic, Lady Kays faction capital being so close to my companys headquarters, and her being a friend, was a given to reach out to her and be courteous. Veiere's troublemaking got me involved with foreign entities of other factions. Space Prius introduced me to the Ancient Eye, and even gave me Mon Calamari Shipyards, who I returned to the original owner [member="Reshmar"] which introduced me to the Directorate. At one time [member="Kaine Australis"] and I were friends and we decided to help each other out which got my name in with the Mand'alor. Sure. I've interacted with Major Factions, but territory may as well have been meaningless. I never entertain the idea of an Invasion or Dominion, or even Rebellions anymore. It's not necessary. And that's with a bog company with a big name. I just don't need to be involved in anything concerning the map. In fact, I only ever entertained the idea for the story, with my friends, with people I wanted to help out, or people I wanted to make a story with that I thought would be awesome!

I once participated in a Major Faction completely, so much so I played the hand of the leader for a short lived time. Not because I wanted the thrill of battle, or to win wars, or to put my name in a hex, but because playing a crazy, perverted shapeshifter was hilarious as she saw the old man leader as her boss and as someone she could play with. Shooting people was just part of the job, it wasn't the goal.

 

[Kainan Wolfe]

[member="Ferron Troste"]

Shooting people isn't the goal for many of us, either. Some of us want to write big, overarching stories, play the villain and the hero in galactic struggles, take part in and influence galactic politics, get involved with conspiracies and court intrigue, or be a part of the grand stories told on galactic battlefields and amongst the burning wrecks of warships.

The beauty of Chaos is that there's something here for all of us. Those who want to write tighter, more focused stories, like you, have a place here and can do so freely. Those who want to do things on a bigger scale, can do so as well. I get it that you don't like the map game, the wars and the constantly shifting borders. But as you said, you can and have interacted with factions on your own terms. Why take away the map game from the people who want to play it? Why restrict everyone to writing the same kind of stories that you like?

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

This thread has derailed more quickly than a streamtrain on a broken bridge.

Staff and I will consider the various proposals in here.

 

[WolfMortum]

I love Chaos, you guys are awesome hehe.

Amusing me in the middle of a lecture over here. Just wanted to show some love (Sorry!).

 

[Captain Larraq]

I just want a crazy undead Mandalorian to come back like the second coming of Jesus to wreak havoc across the map as Mand'alor.

I'm retired.

 

[Tefka]

I'm retired.

No offense but I don’t think anyone is asking you to come out of retirement.