Orick T'ane
Troublemaker
@Vulpesen @Solan Charr
even a broken clock is right twice a day
even a broken clock is right twice a day
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Aithne Charr
Heir of Fire
I thank everyone for their replies so far and helping to get out the misconceptions and allowing us the chance to explain ourselves a bit more.
Please do continue to explain what you think of us, all opinions are welcome and if there is any confusion about our beliefs.
Please do continue to explain what you think of us, all opinions are welcome and if there is any confusion about our beliefs.
Theophenes
Stark raving silly
Frankly, you guys never seem to do a lot of things I've seen. Out of the members having shown up in this thread, I can honestly say that Vulpesen has been on the battlefield a lot. Solann has as well. But as to your reasons fro showing up, those were things that rarely became clear. Most of the battles I've seen you make appearances in, you've arrived as allies, and you've been fairly unclear and indistinct in your actions. You say you're trying to punish wrongs in the galaxy? Neat. Make a declaration. Decry a regime now and then.
TL, DR: If you want to be heroes, try doing more evidently heroic things. Showing up in a lot of fights and yelling about justice makes you look like reckless fighters, not heroic types.
TL, DR: If you want to be heroes, try doing more evidently heroic things. Showing up in a lot of fights and yelling about justice makes you look like reckless fighters, not heroic types.
Aithne Charr
Heir of Fire
[member="Theophenes"]
Im curious, what actions would you see as heroic? Just as a baseline to compare to the faction and story threads we have been doing in the faction itself and see how they match up against the idea.
Also, Solan pretty much is a reckless fighter, and in no way sees himself as a hero. Hes actually an odd ball among the others so hes kind of a bad IC example as to what the rest of the Vitae are like.
Im curious, what actions would you see as heroic? Just as a baseline to compare to the faction and story threads we have been doing in the faction itself and see how they match up against the idea.
Also, Solan pretty much is a reckless fighter, and in no way sees himself as a hero. Hes actually an odd ball among the others so hes kind of a bad IC example as to what the rest of the Vitae are like.
W A N D E R
I don't really understand what the Vitae are, because if they espoused anti-anarchy, they would be against the Rebel Alliance, with whom they allied with, and if they were the police force of the galaxy they would be launching attacks on the Forceless Society or whatever they are called, but I don't see either, so the explanations given don't really fit other than how the faction might have been thought to fit originally.
From what I see it is a group of individuals who wanted to be separate from the rest of the factions that they didn't really fit into and make their own rules outside of the Sith, Republic, and so on. I don't see it as a police force, as noted above, especially as I haven't seen them do anything in regards to the stance of being such. I wouldn't call them the "good guys" because, again, they haven't done anything that I've heard of.
Edit: I mean they don't fit into them because they (characters) don't follow the same morals/ideals/whatever that other major factions seem to push.
From what I see it is a group of individuals who wanted to be separate from the rest of the factions that they didn't really fit into and make their own rules outside of the Sith, Republic, and so on. I don't see it as a police force, as noted above, especially as I haven't seen them do anything in regards to the stance of being such. I wouldn't call them the "good guys" because, again, they haven't done anything that I've heard of.
Edit: I mean they don't fit into them because they (characters) don't follow the same morals/ideals/whatever that other major factions seem to push.
Darron Wraith
Honor | Duty | Courage
I...I just think you guys need to simplify your message so you don't have a three page thread explaining your stance on morals and what you stand for.
Y K S I N
I'm still not entirely sure.
Space Latin Club?
Space Latin Club?
skin, bone, and arrogance
I think this whole discussion is fascinating but, more than that, I appreciate the opportunity to witness something that puts [member="Fabula Caromed"] into Full Sanctimony Mode™ (for a refreshing change of pace, ha).
[member="Silara Kuhn"] raises a good point. At some point you have to establish your criteria. All the idealism in the world does not a cohesive foreign policy make.
[member="Silara Kuhn"] raises a good point. At some point you have to establish your criteria. All the idealism in the world does not a cohesive foreign policy make.
nihil
I don't want to offend anyone and that's not my intent, but my view of the Vitae:
I have no earthly idea what you all are about. I've interacted with you all a bit here and there, but nothing to figure out what exactly is going on. It feels a lot to me like the Island of Misfit Toys (again, no offense). It seems to me that you all have gone so far as to discern what you think you aren't, but not far enough to decide what you actually are. And until that happens and you all really solidify a niche to fill, everyone is going to continue to be confused as you fill this sort of void you currently occupy.
I think some solid inward reflection would do you all a sincere justice. Figure what you are about, figure out what differentiates you from the rest of the major factions, and make that your monument. Don't just say what you are against, say what drives the actual purpose of the group beyond "we are good guys."
I have no earthly idea what you all are about. I've interacted with you all a bit here and there, but nothing to figure out what exactly is going on. It feels a lot to me like the Island of Misfit Toys (again, no offense). It seems to me that you all have gone so far as to discern what you think you aren't, but not far enough to decide what you actually are. And until that happens and you all really solidify a niche to fill, everyone is going to continue to be confused as you fill this sort of void you currently occupy.
I think some solid inward reflection would do you all a sincere justice. Figure what you are about, figure out what differentiates you from the rest of the major factions, and make that your monument. Don't just say what you are against, say what drives the actual purpose of the group beyond "we are good guys."
Raziel
Dark Jedi Spymaster
Not a clue what you stand for, sorry. Life? Honestly, if I was asked I'd respond: "Er, the vulps and solan faction?"
It could do with a stronger message, but I appreciate "Neutral" is a hard message to sell, and is not unique either.
And also to explain the OP, I assumed if we sent some covert agents into someone else's territory to spy on our old facilities, they wouldn't receive a welcome.
It could do with a stronger message, but I appreciate "Neutral" is a hard message to sell, and is not unique either.
And also to explain the OP, I assumed if we sent some covert agents into someone else's territory to spy on our old facilities, they wouldn't receive a welcome.
Aela Talith
The Righteous
I also have little to no understanding of why or what the Vitae Alliance does anything. This however isn't just a problem with your faction, I find the same problem with many major factions on the map. Levantine Sanctum, Silver Jedi, Techno Union, Rebel Alliance, I actually have zero idea of what they stand for or what their goals are, and I've asked! I've literally asked entire chatrooms about the specific purposes or themes of some of these factions and I couldn't get a straight answer that made sense. I read all their info and even some of their threads and I just don't understand.
Granted one of the above listed has gone through many name changes, and with that comes new themes and ideas, but still. It's also not like I necessarily dislike any of these factions, in fact some of my friends are heavily invested in a few of them. I just don't understand what they do or what their function is other then existing, which isn't much of a function at all.
I've always been an advocate of factions having a clearly defined theme, goal, and stance. I've started several factions on SWRP and have lead more than a few. Some of them were successful, some...not so much. Each of them however were clearly defined and written out and each of them had something as a hook that appealed to others across a broad spectrum.
I think it's important to be clear and concise in what you're doing, so I'll give you the same advice that other have given you. Sit down and figure out what you are. Before even addressing other factions, before thinking about alliances, wars, battles, sit down and flesh out your concept. You don't even have to draw from canon. If you have a view on the force but can't find it in canon then who cares, write it down and spell it out for others, maybe it'll appeal to them. If you want to be neutral, then be neutral but clearly spell out what that means to your members. Define the faction as a whole, and don't try to force things.
Granted one of the above listed has gone through many name changes, and with that comes new themes and ideas, but still. It's also not like I necessarily dislike any of these factions, in fact some of my friends are heavily invested in a few of them. I just don't understand what they do or what their function is other then existing, which isn't much of a function at all.
I've always been an advocate of factions having a clearly defined theme, goal, and stance. I've started several factions on SWRP and have lead more than a few. Some of them were successful, some...not so much. Each of them however were clearly defined and written out and each of them had something as a hook that appealed to others across a broad spectrum.
I think it's important to be clear and concise in what you're doing, so I'll give you the same advice that other have given you. Sit down and figure out what you are. Before even addressing other factions, before thinking about alliances, wars, battles, sit down and flesh out your concept. You don't even have to draw from canon. If you have a view on the force but can't find it in canon then who cares, write it down and spell it out for others, maybe it'll appeal to them. If you want to be neutral, then be neutral but clearly spell out what that means to your members. Define the faction as a whole, and don't try to force things.
Jorus Merrill
is mek bote
In large part I'm with [member="Reverance"] and [member="Raziel"] on this, but in the interests of being useful I'm going to try and approach it from another angle.
Where's the conflict? Every faction needs some kind of serious challenge. OP did about a year's worth of Bando Gora fighting before it won and bottomed out. That's success. Fringe did about a year's worth of fighting Unknown Regions monsters before it won and bottomed out. That's success. The Republic beat the crap out of Black Sun and destroyed the Sith Empire before it bottomed out. Black Sun, Sith Council, New Order (well, no, not New Order), Shadow Empire, Imperial Remnant and others just straight-up died off for lack of things to do. It's the same problem that the CIS/ASA/ACA faced before it got its stable new Techno Union thing going.
You can't define yourself in isolation. You have to define yourself in relation to other things -- not just by what you're not, but by what you become because of them. In other words, you probably need a war, or at the very least you have to stand for something other than three words. You gotta figure out how those three words translate into coherent action of some kind.
And it has to involve risk. Full stop, no question. If you aren't willing to risk what you've got by doing something ambitious, you'll never get anywhere, and your faction will get quietly scrubbed in a little while. I'm with the Levantine Sanctum, which is a slower-paced, plot-centric kind of faction that focuses a lot on enabling its members' personal/group RPs and less on dominions. We've had a lot of good times without invading or being invaded, but we also accepted that we would have to take risks to secure our interests and angle for growth. I guess what I'm saying is, if even a slower-paced, non-conquer-everything faction like the Sanctum finds it necessary to take a big risk and make a big move on the gameboard sometimes, how much more does a new faction need that?
EDIT: [member="Aela Talith"] also makes some strong points. I can speak to the Levantine experience better than the other ones. I'm not a faction admin there, never have been, but I've often noted that it's not sufficient to have a strong set of ideas -- Aela's right. They have to be clearly and concisely defined, or you risk your members not being able to explain them. You also risk people thinking you stand for nothing because they can't see what you stand for.
Here's an example from the Levantine experience that you may find useful. The original Levantines and their founding groups had mostly broken away from the Republic for one reason or another, mainly IC though with some elements of dominion fatigue. But it wasn't enough to define ourselves as not the Republic - or even as 'that Firefly faction' or whatever. Shorthand only goes so far unless your ideas are really carefully chosen. If your main ideas can't be expressed clearly and coherently in a handful of lines, find new ones. So while it's totally plausible to ramble about free space and so forth, you still won't get much of an idea of what the Levantines are until you know what the Levantines do, at a higher level of detail than just, say, 'we fight for freedom.'
Sorry if I rambled. I just figured it might help.
Where's the conflict? Every faction needs some kind of serious challenge. OP did about a year's worth of Bando Gora fighting before it won and bottomed out. That's success. Fringe did about a year's worth of fighting Unknown Regions monsters before it won and bottomed out. That's success. The Republic beat the crap out of Black Sun and destroyed the Sith Empire before it bottomed out. Black Sun, Sith Council, New Order (well, no, not New Order), Shadow Empire, Imperial Remnant and others just straight-up died off for lack of things to do. It's the same problem that the CIS/ASA/ACA faced before it got its stable new Techno Union thing going.
You can't define yourself in isolation. You have to define yourself in relation to other things -- not just by what you're not, but by what you become because of them. In other words, you probably need a war, or at the very least you have to stand for something other than three words. You gotta figure out how those three words translate into coherent action of some kind.
And it has to involve risk. Full stop, no question. If you aren't willing to risk what you've got by doing something ambitious, you'll never get anywhere, and your faction will get quietly scrubbed in a little while. I'm with the Levantine Sanctum, which is a slower-paced, plot-centric kind of faction that focuses a lot on enabling its members' personal/group RPs and less on dominions. We've had a lot of good times without invading or being invaded, but we also accepted that we would have to take risks to secure our interests and angle for growth. I guess what I'm saying is, if even a slower-paced, non-conquer-everything faction like the Sanctum finds it necessary to take a big risk and make a big move on the gameboard sometimes, how much more does a new faction need that?
EDIT: [member="Aela Talith"] also makes some strong points. I can speak to the Levantine experience better than the other ones. I'm not a faction admin there, never have been, but I've often noted that it's not sufficient to have a strong set of ideas -- Aela's right. They have to be clearly and concisely defined, or you risk your members not being able to explain them. You also risk people thinking you stand for nothing because they can't see what you stand for.
Here's an example from the Levantine experience that you may find useful. The original Levantines and their founding groups had mostly broken away from the Republic for one reason or another, mainly IC though with some elements of dominion fatigue. But it wasn't enough to define ourselves as not the Republic - or even as 'that Firefly faction' or whatever. Shorthand only goes so far unless your ideas are really carefully chosen. If your main ideas can't be expressed clearly and coherently in a handful of lines, find new ones. So while it's totally plausible to ramble about free space and so forth, you still won't get much of an idea of what the Levantines are until you know what the Levantines do, at a higher level of detail than just, say, 'we fight for freedom.'
- Explore and reclaim worlds lost in the Dark Age
- Enable and protect those lost worlds as equal and independent members of a military and political alliance
- Connect those lost worlds with the galaxy through hyperspace and economic ties
- Principle 1: Sentence.
- Principle 2: Sentence.
- Principle 3: Sentence.
Sorry if I rambled. I just figured it might help.
The Arch Wilder
Ok... that's a lot to respond to so I'll try to keep this as organized and clear as possible. If I miss something, feel free to tell me.
To all of you, I've noticed that one of your big widespread questions is that you don't see Vitae doing much of anything. To be compeltely honest, that's a lot of an OOC and size problem. I've ideas and I do want to take up these radical groups like the ones that [member="Silara Kuhn"] mentioned. The only problem is, we don't have the man power. I keep tabs on Vitae threads to gauge our activity and a lot of our members despite saying its a great idea when they understand it decided to suddenly go silent when joining us. I'm only going to open faction threads when i think the faction will be there with me.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't to say that Vitae is dead. We have active members. We've got people acting and creating stories. We just don't have the people and member base to do anything really big yet like taking other groups head on.
[member="Silara Kuhn"] Most of what you said seemed to be handled in the above blurb. But, there is the mention of our alliance with the Rebels. We're allies. If we believed everything they did, we might as well just have joined them(thought technically, we are older I believe). But, you can expect us, as friends, to notice when Rebels leave a system in chaos and we'll raise our voices that maybe they should take care to bring a bit of order lest they loose their systems. But that's assuming they do stand for anarchy. By the look of the Geonosis invasion however,t hat didn't look like the case to me.
[member="Death's Hand"] I actually plan on doing this. Once I finish with this, you can expect me to, in detail, open up what the Vitae are to the site. It'll take a few days of course as Vitae is older than my time on this board. And with all the conversions I made to fix it up for this place, a lot of stuff has been placed into the faction.
[member="Kiber Dorn"] I just think Latin is a wonderful language. But this is not widely held by the rest of the faction(at least, I never asked if it was)
[member="Avadreia Lacroix"] We have three wishes. Life Freedom and Unity. They are in order from more important to least important. We aren't looking for utopia. We are looking for a stable, safe, and living galaxy just like many others. How you personally aim to achieve this as a member, is up to you. I hope that answers your concerns.
[member="Reverance"] I've done what you suggested. Did that a long time ago actually. I couldn't know what we aren't without knowing first, what we are. I've just admittedly been lack luster in communicating this. Thus, this thread was born. This is th start of what I might just call, the "Who are we" campaign of advertisement. Essentially, this is taking what the public of the site thinks of us, using that as a basis for when i actually tell you what we are. This threads entire purpose is to let me know what I need to address in future threads and advertisements regarding Vitae.
[member="Aela Talith"] Gotta say, that does bolster my confidence a bit, knowing we're not the only faction with this problem(still working to fix it as some of them have) And again, I'm kinda doing this whole campaign to let people know in detail what we're about.(this thread is a bit too cluttered for me to do it here, so expect another in the future)
[member="Jorus Merrill"] We're looking for conflicts, but start small. There will of course, come a time when we put it all on the line. And out isolation is done out of a bit of fear. There are people who reeaaallly hate me and other members of this faction. Literally the week we went major there were plans to have us wiped from the face of the board by destroying both us, and the planet where our faction is set. We're not in isolation because we think its a cool concept. We're in it because we think the faction is a cool concept and we don't want to be burned out immediately. And for all of you who say, "If you can't handle the fights, don't become major" You really haven't been paying attention... The people who almost tried to annihilate us have been steam rolling the board, old factions and new for months now. We were just lucky that they actually do have members who can think on their own and tell right from wrong.
As for your saying that our three words need to be defined. They have been. Its a bit scattered around the site between OOC threads and IC threads, but I have explained them(no, I do not expect you people to go after them like an Easter egg hunt). I'll be reexplaining them in the thread that actually turns this thread into something that explains us as a whole.
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. All of this is helping me to figure out what I need to say when i get to clearing up this mystery and misconception surrounding us.
To all of you, I've noticed that one of your big widespread questions is that you don't see Vitae doing much of anything. To be compeltely honest, that's a lot of an OOC and size problem. I've ideas and I do want to take up these radical groups like the ones that [member="Silara Kuhn"] mentioned. The only problem is, we don't have the man power. I keep tabs on Vitae threads to gauge our activity and a lot of our members despite saying its a great idea when they understand it decided to suddenly go silent when joining us. I'm only going to open faction threads when i think the faction will be there with me.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't to say that Vitae is dead. We have active members. We've got people acting and creating stories. We just don't have the people and member base to do anything really big yet like taking other groups head on.
[member="Silara Kuhn"] Most of what you said seemed to be handled in the above blurb. But, there is the mention of our alliance with the Rebels. We're allies. If we believed everything they did, we might as well just have joined them(thought technically, we are older I believe). But, you can expect us, as friends, to notice when Rebels leave a system in chaos and we'll raise our voices that maybe they should take care to bring a bit of order lest they loose their systems. But that's assuming they do stand for anarchy. By the look of the Geonosis invasion however,t hat didn't look like the case to me.
[member="Death's Hand"] I actually plan on doing this. Once I finish with this, you can expect me to, in detail, open up what the Vitae are to the site. It'll take a few days of course as Vitae is older than my time on this board. And with all the conversions I made to fix it up for this place, a lot of stuff has been placed into the faction.
[member="Kiber Dorn"] I just think Latin is a wonderful language. But this is not widely held by the rest of the faction(at least, I never asked if it was)
[member="Avadreia Lacroix"] We have three wishes. Life Freedom and Unity. They are in order from more important to least important. We aren't looking for utopia. We are looking for a stable, safe, and living galaxy just like many others. How you personally aim to achieve this as a member, is up to you. I hope that answers your concerns.
[member="Reverance"] I've done what you suggested. Did that a long time ago actually. I couldn't know what we aren't without knowing first, what we are. I've just admittedly been lack luster in communicating this. Thus, this thread was born. This is th start of what I might just call, the "Who are we" campaign of advertisement. Essentially, this is taking what the public of the site thinks of us, using that as a basis for when i actually tell you what we are. This threads entire purpose is to let me know what I need to address in future threads and advertisements regarding Vitae.
[member="Aela Talith"] Gotta say, that does bolster my confidence a bit, knowing we're not the only faction with this problem(still working to fix it as some of them have) And again, I'm kinda doing this whole campaign to let people know in detail what we're about.(this thread is a bit too cluttered for me to do it here, so expect another in the future)
[member="Jorus Merrill"] We're looking for conflicts, but start small. There will of course, come a time when we put it all on the line. And out isolation is done out of a bit of fear. There are people who reeaaallly hate me and other members of this faction. Literally the week we went major there were plans to have us wiped from the face of the board by destroying both us, and the planet where our faction is set. We're not in isolation because we think its a cool concept. We're in it because we think the faction is a cool concept and we don't want to be burned out immediately. And for all of you who say, "If you can't handle the fights, don't become major" You really haven't been paying attention... The people who almost tried to annihilate us have been steam rolling the board, old factions and new for months now. We were just lucky that they actually do have members who can think on their own and tell right from wrong.
As for your saying that our three words need to be defined. They have been. Its a bit scattered around the site between OOC threads and IC threads, but I have explained them(no, I do not expect you people to go after them like an Easter egg hunt). I'll be reexplaining them in the thread that actually turns this thread into something that explains us as a whole.
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. All of this is helping me to figure out what I need to say when i get to clearing up this mystery and misconception surrounding us.
Darth Ferus
Wanderer
After reading all of these posts.
I still don't understand the point of the vitae.
But I got a better idea. I wanna see more on the NFU side of all of this, as I have no idea what purpose it was. [member="Vulpesen"]
So, could you elaborate on the NFU section of the group?
I still don't understand the point of the vitae.
But I got a better idea. I wanna see more on the NFU side of all of this, as I have no idea what purpose it was. [member="Vulpesen"]
So, could you elaborate on the NFU section of the group?
Aithne Charr
Heir of Fire
[member="Darth Ferus"]
Trust me, we want more NFU people too... ill let Vulpes handle what hes looking into NFUs for.
Trust me, we want more NFU people too... ill let Vulpes handle what hes looking into NFUs for.
The Arch Wilder
[member="Darth Ferus"]
Anyone who can do anything.
I want a melting pot of people. If you can hack a criminal syndicate and drain them of funds, we want you. If you're rambo commando we can send out to blow up crime centrals, we want you. If you're a diplomat who can keep us in the good graces of the galaxy, we want you too.
Anyone who can do anything.
I want a melting pot of people. If you can hack a criminal syndicate and drain them of funds, we want you. If you're rambo commando we can send out to blow up crime centrals, we want you. If you're a diplomat who can keep us in the good graces of the galaxy, we want you too.
skin, bone, and arrogance
"Life Freedom and Unity" aren't wishes. Or principles. Or anything, really. The more I think of it and the more I hear, the more it seems like you just want some playground faction. It just seems a little... I don't know. I'm not trying to be dismissive, but it just seems like there's no there there.
Valiens Nantaris
Head Admin
One of the fundamentals of storytelling is ‘Show, don’t Tell’.
There’s been a lot of posting in this thread, some more critical than others. I get what the Vitae tell us, they are. They are a vaguely Light Sided group out to protect and serve. That’s fine, that’s cool…but I’ve never seen it in practice.
Let me explain. When making major factions on an RP forum, one needs to consider some fundamental points.
Non-Canon major factions usually fail. OP and Fringe are two exceptions, but if we look over all the others they have usually lower member counts and have more trouble convincing people to join them, especially if it’s perceived to be the hobby horse for a couple of specific members.
I think the problem with the Vitae Alliance is that they’ve not shown us their rhetoric in action. They’ve done few or no dominions, no invasions, no big epic threads where they fight an enemy, as [member="Jorus Merrill"] mentioned.
If this is a problem of membership then perhaps the time is not yet right for the faction to play on the big stage. Perhaps going back to minor, recruiting and building up major associations could help and then a return to major might have dividends.
However, it’s not impossible. One example which bares close scrutiny is the Primeval, who have managed to maintain a large very non-canon faction with an easily understood message, so it can be done.
My suggestion for the Vitae is to build up your faction and interact with other big factions, either in peace or war. Get your ‘brand’ out there, and that will do a better job than any number of posts here will.
There’s been a lot of posting in this thread, some more critical than others. I get what the Vitae tell us, they are. They are a vaguely Light Sided group out to protect and serve. That’s fine, that’s cool…but I’ve never seen it in practice.
Let me explain. When making major factions on an RP forum, one needs to consider some fundamental points.
- People recognise canon names and gravitate towards them. After all, Star Wars is about Jedi, Sith, Republic, Empire and Mandalorian. All these names have power and guarantee you a following. You can’t go far wrong with one of those.
- Non-Canon factions have a burden of explanation on them. OP has been the most successful example of this kind because it got the message out there clearly, and then used big RPs to bolster its talk with action.
Non-Canon major factions usually fail. OP and Fringe are two exceptions, but if we look over all the others they have usually lower member counts and have more trouble convincing people to join them, especially if it’s perceived to be the hobby horse for a couple of specific members.
I think the problem with the Vitae Alliance is that they’ve not shown us their rhetoric in action. They’ve done few or no dominions, no invasions, no big epic threads where they fight an enemy, as [member="Jorus Merrill"] mentioned.
If this is a problem of membership then perhaps the time is not yet right for the faction to play on the big stage. Perhaps going back to minor, recruiting and building up major associations could help and then a return to major might have dividends.
However, it’s not impossible. One example which bares close scrutiny is the Primeval, who have managed to maintain a large very non-canon faction with an easily understood message, so it can be done.
My suggestion for the Vitae is to build up your faction and interact with other big factions, either in peace or war. Get your ‘brand’ out there, and that will do a better job than any number of posts here will.
Jorus Merrill
is mek bote
In relation to [member="Valiens Nantaris"] post and this-
See, Fringe started off as a playground, a sandbox if you will, for members who'd experienced...amicability issues. Suffice it to say that Isis Fontana was an early member. The idea was to give them a fun setting to show them how to comport themselves like adults. That didn't end up working, so Fringe happily transitioned into a fully functional major faction and got down to business. But one element from that founding premise stuck around for a while. The idea was that we'd be problem children IC but unimpeachably accommodating OOC, and try to do everything absolutely aboveboard. Why's this relevant? Because a lot of our early members suffered from serious respect and reputation problems, and had made themselves targets on the same level as what you're talking about, if not more so. We chose to address the issue on this premise:
tl;dr: I've seen a positive correlation between 'taking greater responsibility for the quality of your own member base's behavior' and 'increased ability to play the big game without everyone wanting to stomp you enthusiastically.'
-plus this-Avadreia Lacroix said:
-I might actually have something else useful to say. This one's from the early days of Fringe.Vulpesen said:
See, Fringe started off as a playground, a sandbox if you will, for members who'd experienced...amicability issues. Suffice it to say that Isis Fontana was an early member. The idea was to give them a fun setting to show them how to comport themselves like adults. That didn't end up working, so Fringe happily transitioned into a fully functional major faction and got down to business. But one element from that founding premise stuck around for a while. The idea was that we'd be problem children IC but unimpeachably accommodating OOC, and try to do everything absolutely aboveboard. Why's this relevant? Because a lot of our early members suffered from serious respect and reputation problems, and had made themselves targets on the same level as what you're talking about, if not more so. We chose to address the issue on this premise:
- If we minimize the level of cheap moves, griping, obnoxiousness, drama, godmoding, and persecution complex coming from within our own ranks, fewer people will be out to get us, collectively or individually.
- We invited and traded invasions. Seriously, that's what we did. Had some good times in the process. 'Hey, OP, your activity's not looking so great, want to invade us somewhere that matters but won't cripple us if you win?' 'Sure, let's do it.' Thus came, among other things, the Battle of Kayri, which was pretty cool. Then they invited us to hit Eriadu, and that was a fun one too.
- We, as faction leaders, took responsibility for setting the bar high. During most of our invasions, we held our own members to higher standards than the standards to which we held our opponents. We focused on making sure that our people and allies didn't do anything reportable, and on making sure that our people didn't get all groupthinky and pitchforky when someone else did something that looked dubious. The onus was on us, and it worked. Some of our people learned restraint, their reputations improved, and Fringe had a good period of time where other factions enjoyed having hostilities with us.
- We set rules for faction chats. Certain subjects that were guaranteed to set us all raging were absolutely banned. We actively fought groupthink, though with imperfect success. We also did our level best to rein in our most outspoken members when they ran off to start fires in other chats or on the board.
- We made it very clear that we would never kick anyone from the faction unless it was absolutely earned after multiple chances. Clear expectations and clear consequences.
- We made it very clear that any member of the faction could become faction admin or owner, and then we delivered on that by sharing power vigorously. A little carrot to go with the stick.
- Cringing on general principle
- Worrying that any interaction would lead to reports
- Worrying that our people would be too volatile to touch
- Worrying that we would take any IC incursion as an OOC attack regardless of whether it was or not
- Worrying that we would go on a rampage
- Cheerleading for our destruction, over and above the wholly normal Risk-gameboard desire to paint a chunk of the map your colour
tl;dr: I've seen a positive correlation between 'taking greater responsibility for the quality of your own member base's behavior' and 'increased ability to play the big game without everyone wanting to stomp you enthusiastically.'
Edric Vanyan
The Historian King
[member="Jorus Merrill"]
Many ideas (BTW, This is Solan, too lazy to change chars) you wrote above at things ive been debating. And ya, the biggest thing was that OOC based attacks to show us and get us active. Hell i still do want skirmishes its just trying to find a good reason for a war other than OOC based we want to have a quick invasion or skirmish for fun. Reason its a bit harder is the factions around us... Except for some Rebel actions that have shaken ICly ties atleast in Solan's eyes we have no reason to attack OP, Fringe, or really anyone. Now granted, they might have a reason to attack us, what reason that may be i honestly have no idea and i am glad to have them come and talk to me any time about ideas.
The biggest thing with the whole Inquisition debacle... which i see Vulpes brought up for... what ever reason. Is that we don't really have anything to give them a fun thread with in regards to the planet they were going to attack as the objectives would have been very small. Now take into effect that while i was talking to Hauntruss and when things were figured out i did say that in the future i wanted to do something like what she wanted to do because at that point we would be able to give them something fun to do. I guess my point is, i did recognize alot from our neighbors in teh past and even more from OOC banter in my time here and much like you suggestions ( A few i myself had not thought of ) I have been attempting to push things around and what not.
Another rather heavy hit though is the whole getting in contact with other factions thing... which we have tried in the past but repeatedly it had seemed like we were... brushed away i guess the word would be or in the case as one of the first few posts were were kinda told to just get in line. Granted im working on that too now with someone over OOC as well as doing some other stuff to draw more attention but its something that we are... i don't know... adverse against doing? If that would be the right terminology.
So in short
A strong point though i would like to ask, mainly you Jon and of course Valiens if he sees this is really if you have tips on how to get ahold of other people and get through with cross faction Roleplays. We have had problems with other factions... finishing or even joining threads they were more than happy and excited to do like the OP and the Republic.
Many ideas (BTW, This is Solan, too lazy to change chars) you wrote above at things ive been debating. And ya, the biggest thing was that OOC based attacks to show us and get us active. Hell i still do want skirmishes its just trying to find a good reason for a war other than OOC based we want to have a quick invasion or skirmish for fun. Reason its a bit harder is the factions around us... Except for some Rebel actions that have shaken ICly ties atleast in Solan's eyes we have no reason to attack OP, Fringe, or really anyone. Now granted, they might have a reason to attack us, what reason that may be i honestly have no idea and i am glad to have them come and talk to me any time about ideas.
The biggest thing with the whole Inquisition debacle... which i see Vulpes brought up for... what ever reason. Is that we don't really have anything to give them a fun thread with in regards to the planet they were going to attack as the objectives would have been very small. Now take into effect that while i was talking to Hauntruss and when things were figured out i did say that in the future i wanted to do something like what she wanted to do because at that point we would be able to give them something fun to do. I guess my point is, i did recognize alot from our neighbors in teh past and even more from OOC banter in my time here and much like you suggestions ( A few i myself had not thought of ) I have been attempting to push things around and what not.
Another rather heavy hit though is the whole getting in contact with other factions thing... which we have tried in the past but repeatedly it had seemed like we were... brushed away i guess the word would be or in the case as one of the first few posts were were kinda told to just get in line. Granted im working on that too now with someone over OOC as well as doing some other stuff to draw more attention but its something that we are... i don't know... adverse against doing? If that would be the right terminology.
So in short
- Already making strides in the areas in which were pointed out by you
- Trying to (as we had in the past) to talk to Major Factions are already in the process
- And looking to do those big threads if we can.
A strong point though i would like to ask, mainly you Jon and of course Valiens if he sees this is really if you have tips on how to get ahold of other people and get through with cross faction Roleplays. We have had problems with other factions... finishing or even joining threads they were more than happy and excited to do like the OP and the Republic.