Vanilla Force Users

[Jsc]

Story time.

Recently I was making a new character and decided she should be force sensitive. However, when it came to begin browsing for a faction and training I found myself at a loss for just where to put her. See. I came upon a stumbling block. That is: Star Wars is stupid. Just, it's pretty darn dumb, ya know. This whole "Force" thing. It's bugging me now. See. The Jedi religion itself is a utter joke about caustic emotional repression among laser swords practitioners and meanwhile the Sith religion is just downright comical for it's mustached villainy, orange glowing eyes, and prominent Nazi commands. Hell. The Force itself offers my new character no new God, no good council, and certainly no new purpose. It's utter existence being necessitated, I suppose. just so that space magic can actually exist.

So yeah. Crisis achieved. My character creation process literally just stopped dead in it's tracks because my inner character's voice spoke up and reminded me that she finds this whole genre's religious reality too moronic to even partake in. Leaving me wondering and gasping why such a strange event has never happened before in all my years of writing. And yet. I wondered. Puzzled really. Suppose rather than just simply stripe her of these force sensitivities and find some childish contentment in such a short-sited solution. Basking in happy blissfulness for her now, consequence free magical ignorance. Well. What if? What if I cast off these silly genre staples of Light vs Dark and simply tired to do something better?

Hurray and alas. Am I now just demanding of myself to create a whole new board religion to satisfy a little need for just a little less magical stupidity? Am I finally finding myself so happily and calmly joining the ranks of those crazy The Last Jedi fans who actually enjoyed it's humorously self destructive nature? Oh boy. Yep. Now you've done it Jay. Look what you've done. You've finally figured out that Star Wars is so stupid and inconsistent that you actually have to stop yourself and actually dumb down your characters to even participate with it creatively anymore. Man. I'll say. What's an amateur fan writer of force sensitive characters to do?

Easy!

He'll ask the audience. Because ya'll are smarter than he. And have probably been fixing this silly problem for years now anyway. Lulz.

So yeah. Feedback and discussion time now. I'll start with a question. Q: When ya'll build a force using character? How do keep them from eventually succumbing to the shear stupidity and wild inconsistencies that are The Force, and it's canonical Jedi and Sith representations?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Q: When ya'll build a force using character? How do keep them from eventually succumbing to the shear stupidity and wild inconsistencies that are The Force, and it's canonical Jedi and Sith representations?

By not writing Jedi or Sith. While the movies obviously focus on them, the Star Wars Galaxy is huge.

And I ignore stuff I consider silly, illogical or dull.

 

[Lunara Azure]

I mean, I kinda did the same and made up an entire religion to explain force use for this character. It's a completely doable, and fun way to approach the force that I quite enjoyed. For the rest of my characters, grey Jedi, keep the parts I light but emotion isn't bad, relationships are good.

 

[Amilthi Camlenn]

[member="Jsc"]

Yes, portrayals of Jedi and Sith in various works of fictions are an inconsistent mess that makes no sense whatsoever. But once you adopt the stance that these various characters can be wrong about the nature of the Force, you have a solution for the inconsistencies, and the game becomes to develop your own vision. That is precisely what I enjoy about writing Amilthi. I don't even have to decide who is right - it might be her, or it might be lots of other people.

Take, for example, this whole concept of the Will of the Force. Some characters believe in it, others think it's nonsense. One of these groups is wrong, but for the purpose of writing a character who belongs to either of them, you don't even have to decide which group it is.

The facts on the ground remain, of course, that all those people manage to move stuff with their minds. But humans are perfectly capable of succeeding for the wrong reasons. They learn meditation from being told nonsensical things; they learn martial arts from being told nonsensical things; they learn to play the piano from being told nonsensical things. Many lessons on those subjects are just crutches that somehow, through metaphors or whatever, get the human mind and body to do what it does, even if, as descriptions of what's actually going on, they are completely off base. Keeping this in mind, it becomes quite easy to deal with the practical success of the Jedi and Sith: they can have that success despite being wrong on the facts.

The Jedi religion itself is a utter joke about caustic emotional repression among laser swords practitioners

Lots of people write Jedi with pretty much normal emotional lives. That's basically legitimised by, especially, the EU's NJO Jedi (which I think were written so because the writers had no clue how to write anything more spiritual).

And even the Jedi who aren't emotionally normal are certainly not simply "emotionally repressed". States of detachment from one's emotions are very real in our own, actual world. Keywords: "mindfulness", "insight meditation", "psychedelics"

meanwhile the Sith religion is just downright comical for it's mustached villainy, orange glowing eyes, and prominent Nazi commands

Someone once spent a lot of time writing up more creative ways to conceive of a Sith.

The Force gives you plenty to work with if you want to engage in this game of imagination. And if you don't enjoy that game, then just don't write a Jedi or a Sith. Either disengage completely and write characters who are not Force-sensitive, or maybe write a Force-sensitive who, upon encountering such traditions, thinks they are nonsense.

I also suggest not playing Aing-Tii, because they have their own stupid religion, and also because writing a really alien mind like that is super hard.

 

[Darlyn Excron]

[member="Jsc"]

Its all on outlook. Make a character, the philosophy follows. A forcie knows the force exists, is real, and can allow one to do stupidly cool space magic, but some care more or less about it. Some couldn't care less if they tried, and its simply a part of reality. Some think its basically the real world god. Some think its an energy that guides everyone but not a god at all. Some think its like, two or more gods. What it is actually up for debate among characters regardless of what the audience may know.

Sith and Jedi are philosophies, some buy in to them, some buy in partially to them but not all the way, and some disbelieve them. Like in the real world there are people who could look at a code like the jedi's and find something of value, but find the whole to be stupid. LIke in the real world there could be fifty different types of jedi orders, like there's so many variants on Christianity. Believe these ideas? Don't? It only matters if the character thinks it does.

So to handle this variance, I write a character as I would in a modern setting. What they believe, is what they believe. Regardless of who is more or less right.


Take Darlyn. Believes in the force, believes it to be pretty cool and an intrinsic part of who he is. Disbelieves in the Jedi and Sith paths, despite finding some comfort in the ideas of freedom preached by the sith code, so he rejects them both in his own personal pursuits. Thinks that the light is fueled off calm emotions while the dark is fueled by more wild and free emotion, naturally finds dark more useful to bringing about satisfying conclusions. So his 'darkness' comes more from a natural state than an ideology. That said, he can hold arguably jedi-like morals in certain areas without sacrificing his core identity, because those ideas may actually stem from the reasoning behind his darker, wilder emotions.

Ariealla is another of my characters. Cartoonishly evil perhaps, but rather than twirling a mosutache and bombing planets from orbit she's more happy to have tea with you and watch the arsenic kick in. But perhaps she'll enjoy your company instead, and keep you alive for her own amusement. She believes the strong have a right to rule the weak and a duty to keep them from harm, though more a duty from necessity rather than kindness. Yet she can have soft spots, little things that humanize her. She's not unable to be three dimensional. I'm just not usually writing her enough to figure out exactly how to make her so, beyond her love of music, dance, and theater.


Essentially, writing a force user is like writing a non force user. An NFU has a view on the force if they're aware of it, be it as something they believe works miracles, a legend, or a myth of hocus pocus voodoo. Essentially the only thing an FU has in addition is how their personal thoughts and feelings towards this force they are aware of can be put into words.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Jsc"]

I dunno.

I've always found myself looking at the Jedi and Sith and only really seeing the Good Guy and Bad Guy. And, as Kushner said when he was making Empire, its more of a fairytale than anything else. That shiznoo ain't supposed to make sense in a lot of ways.

As far as Chaos is concerned? Jedi and Sith are basically swappable and have no meaning or attraction for me at this point. Some people forget that sometimes creative restrictions make you do more with what you already have instead of the same level of quality with new stuff over and over.

How to build a better future for force users? I'd say the X-Men way of 'superheroing' is a pretty good way of doing things, then again that'd require the mysterious force to actually be an interesting issue socially. Ah well, I just write an Alien who doesn't really give a kark about the force and that's how I solve my problem.

The Force, the physical, everything falls under nature. Nature is what my character here believes in more than anything else. It's all just there - no need to try and make the force distinct unless you want to.

Also well, Logan ​is the best superhero movie ever made and it's not even a superhero movie. I'd say you go the same way about Force usin' downplay it. It's just another facet of the characters life, I think making it this HUGE DEAL all the time makes it a yawn of a subject.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Coren Starchaser]

Letting things evolve away from the movies.

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] Has it there.

But using the Jedi and Sith as a background is always fun. I love writing a Jedi, but we all know Coren isn't the warrior-monk, he's much more a Paladin-warrior Jedi. You let them be what they are going to be. Writing the inconsistancies, or shortcomings is the important part of the character. He doesn't fit into the Jedi, but he doesn't exactly not fit into the Jedi if I pull certain legends characters. And the same goes for the Sith. [member="Darth Carnifex"] has it solidly in the TSE that they cooperate, and aside from some other entities the Sith work together to achieve their goals, rather than the 'kill your master in their sleep' arc.

And don't be upset that you don't fit everyone's view. Write for you, and enforce the rules on your character. As a writer be lawful, and unapologetically write your character. Regardless of how others see their Force philosophy and actions.

 

[Progflaw99]

This isn't a sales pitch, and as likely everyone on the board is willing to admit - the Ren have had their own trouble when it comes to the "Why". I've heard things from "Sith Lite" to "Dark Jedi" and every time I stop and consider who are the Knights of Ren really? I end up talking in circles. The Knights of Ren in canon, I think we all know, have been woefully (to some) underexplained or even downright retconned. By now, even if the Knights of Ren become relevant in any capacity per canon I can't say for sure the Chaos version of them will change to match, or by that same measure, cease to exist if canon turns theme into merely a dream.

That said, it's changed - what had once been an accompanying force order to the First Order as a whole at first concept doesn't really seem to work that way. It became something that was essentially another branch of government but "With the Force" which as time went on grew more and more muddled as to what being a Knight of Ren or being an FU in the First Order meant. We've always been heavy NFU side so when we began introducing many FU NPC's and expanding the role of the KoR to include academies and things on planets it killed a lot of the mystique and put us at a point where there really wasn't much difference between a Sith or a Dark Jedi aside from allegiance to the First Order. (Keep in mind I'm using Sith and Dark Jedi in the loosest of meanings, that's a discussion in and of itself)

By and large, when it comes to writing FU's, I try to not focus so much on the abilities and capabilities themselves but how those (Consistent or inconsistent) can enhance or detract from a story. I tend to think of it as an optional 'flavor enhancer' not necessarily an aspect I need to rely on at all times. For example: Do I have to use a force push when I want to block a door with a chunk of debris, or could I make the scene more dramatic/real if my character shoulders a half broken cabinet in front of the door? Does it make sense that my character would be able to focus on both the presence of the Force and what's going on in front of them?

I think the largest thing is to not pigeon hole yourself into one belief, one "Absolute". I mean, I know that following the canonical Jedi beliefs and Sith kind of require that, but I prefer to add subtle nuance. Maybe you don't believe the codes literally, but the spirit of the codes. Maybe your character believes pieces of it but struggles with others - I try to stay away from the extremes - at least as far as the character's underlying beliefs. A Jedi might "follow the Code" but have certain areas in which they believe a slightly different version/deviation from the text as it's written.

TLDR: I think the largest piece is approaching it from the view that the Force is mystical, unknown, endless. People might claim to know it, or know of it, or about it, but not everyone has the complete unrequited truth of what the Force is or what its limits are. If you can accept that, the inconsistencies don't seem to matter as much. I imagine it like Magic in fantasy worlds, it's so unknown that the same spell might do two slightly different things depending on the conditions, the way it's said, and where it's said.

[member="Jsc"]

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Force Users on Chaos deserve better.

I think the FUs on Chaos are just fine.

 

[Republic Engineering]

Much like in Cooking, a dozen people can follow the same recipe but end up with a dozen different iterations. I think the Force-Wielding community of Chaos is not only doing just fine, but they couldn't be in a better position with how much room there is for religious freedom(s,) and interpretation(s.)

If you're having troubles making interesting Spiritual Characters, that sounds like an Issue, rather than an Issme.

 

[Jsc]

Ya'll are too nice.

@Sio - I don't think I'll ever write a Jedi or Sith again after today. I really don't.

@ Kaine - I might try that.

@Lunara - That was kinda inspiring.

@Ami - Best answer ever.

@Darlyn - To doubt is to make it more real. Love it.

@Tat - No huge, more Hugh. Seems worth it.

@Coren - Everyone's view is exactly what I needed today. Tomorrow, we'll try original content again.

@Rolf - Mystical is good at this point. The more I try to lay it out, the sillier it seems anyway.

@DeWinter - I'll change the title and opening. I don't blame you for not reading further.

@ Arc - You're just trying to make me hungry.

 

[Judah Lesan]

Two Words...

JUDAH LESAN

 

[RC 212]

[member="Jsc"]

When I wrote Vassara I just went with a main character Class.

IE The Spacer

Loaded her up with the "The Force."

And then just wrote her, coming from a Jedi background.

I let the character develop herself.

Rogue Jedi ftw.

Also though, there are so many cool traditions to try out and integrate. For example Karren Trask draws heavily from the "Goody Good" Jedi category. Then she gave up and just was a force user using the force as a means to an end in line with her personal agenda to kill bad guys and Sith. She also draws heavily from the Gray Paladins, who thought of the Lightsaber and the force as a last resort, and really just focused on shooting stuff with trick shots and the like.

Either way you play it, have fun with it. Your character dosn't need to "Fit In" to any order. Granted it can be frustrating to find folks to RP with that share your outlook.

Try making a core concept. What's their primary profession without the the force? Then add some motives, and then add the force.

I like to take random traditions and smash them together. Sure they might be a "Jedi" but maybe they are the crafty type, that down own a lightsaber, but rather tinker on blasters and droids, and like to Imbue stuff with the Force?

I've learned that centering a character around just "The Force" makes them stale and boring. That's for NPC's. Breathe life into them, flesh them out and then add in the force as a tack on at the end, once they are a living breathing character with Quirks, ambitions and a background.

Possibilities are endless.

 

[Toni Nova]

[member="Jsc"]

That's why I don't do Jedi or Sith very often and when I do, I put my own spin on it. If you think about it the galaxy of Star wars is big, even in the EU they had brushes with things like the Ang tii who saw the Force radically different. I like to either play off a different, regional religion or I like to make my own. It does make perfect sense, and in the EU there are lots of tiny references to passing deities and religions; not to mention pretty much every culture is going to get their own religion that is... well, cultural (redundant I know).

Further, it is my opinion that every culture has a different take on the common religions, or would. For instance with The EU we see that Skywalker revamped the Jedi and they had Correllian Jedi that were distinctly different from "regular Jedi" in their beliefs and practices of the Jedi Creed.

Alternately.... I just don't do religion. It just becomes a small part of my characters hardly worth a mention or they just are too busy with their lives to care about it too much.

 

[Nerd Wizard]

Every form of worldbuilding and every fictional realm falls apart if you delve too deeply into its every detail, though, if I may paraphrase J. R. R. Tolkien's On Fairy Stories. Being as the teachings of the Jedi draw upon the inconsistent philosophies of Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Buddhism and Christianity alike, if you know all of the basics of those varied philosophies, you can see how it doesn't all fit. The best way to handle this is to take one of the underlying philosophies as a "foundation" and add onto it whatever you want in order to modify it accordingly, if that makes any sense.

Why focus on the future of the franchise when you can draw from its imaginative past, however? (Yes, I did just say that the Disney movies suck - to hell with deconstructionism...) The best I can offer you along the lines of the basics of alternative Force-using traditions is found here: Force Adepts and Dark Side Devotees. As morality and immorality are universal, constant, absolute and unchanging over the millennia, even in the Star Wars universe, as in real life, you'll still be embodying the underlying traits of one side or the other primarily, even if they follow a different tradition.

http://swse.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Traditions

There was an interesting, if little explored concept in the book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction: during the Battle of Ruusan, the clashing energies of the light and dark armies counteracting one another so consistently over the course of the battle seemed to create a resulting "Twilight" of the Force that began to have slight demoralizing emotional effects on both the Jedi and the Sith alike, but as its been forever since I've read that book, my memory fails me right now...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ruusan_campaign

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thought_bomb

That's the best I can do, kiddo.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Jsc"]
Jedi and Sith are a religion/order, they are not the people in those orders.

Not every jedi is Yoda, not every Sith is Darth Sidious.

Write a person that happens to belong to one of these groups, with varying degrees of attachment to it. Maybe a Sith that views order only achievable through force, and power through the force as a means to that end, and thus only achieved by the strong (which is certainly one way a lot of people view the sith code on the site) and through your own ambitions you fall slowly along the way until you've reached that lovely point of no return.

Or maybe a Jedi that has seen first-hand how easily the force can be used for severely destructive purposes, and how emotional vulnerabilities can be so dangerous in someone with so much potential, leading you to being cautious in how quickly you become more skilled using it and how much you learn about it at once in order to keep yourself from losing yourself in that power.

Or maybe you aren't either of those things, maybe you're someone who never heard of the Jedi or Sith, maybe you don't even comprehend the force in the same way as everyone else and just believe it's some connection to the origin of everything, not unlike how some people view magic.

 

[Aran Finn]

[member="Jsc"]

Just write what you want. You're only limited by your imagination, which I'm pretty sure is limitless. Heck, you could even come up with a new and interesting way to write about the force, both in a character's willpower to use the force as well as how it manifests itself. Or you could indulge in some Obi-Wan fanfic. Just trust your instincts and write about it in a way that interest you.

Either way ... if you write it, I'll like it.