UK Votes To Leave the European Union

[Raziel]

[member="Kira Vaal"]

The north south or rather London and the rest of England, divide has grown. It's grown over two Conservative governments as it always does.

Those in the East Midlands and the North have been hit hard by austerity and immigration from Europe is a relatively new thing to them. When you have little to lose its easy to take a risk.

Most of my friends have degrees and are doing reasonably well. We universally voted against leaving (as did the vast majority of younger, well educated voters) because we stand to lose a lot. I've already heard rumblings of a number of large companies preparing to move operations to frankfurt and Dublin (not the ones in the news).

Fortunately those that voted against are best placed to leave if everything takes a downward turn.

We have a huge issue with education in the country and are failing a lot of children. Migration wouldn't be so large if we were more focused on filling labor shortages ourselves.

 

[sabrina]

Gove wants to leave the single market, others want to remain (say bye to any hopes of reduced immigration in that case).

That would not bother me, as long as we don't answer to the eu parliament. As I don't want to be ruled by people I have no say over, and have no respect for my vote.

 

[sabrina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XKJ2mcdVmQ



this made me laugh

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

To quote a professor of law:

So let us start with a couple of myths. The first is the myth of sovereignty, there is no doubt whatsoever that the United Kingdom is a sovereign state under international law. There is no doubt whatsoever that the parliament in Westminster is the supreme law making authority in this country.

Conversely there is no doubt whatsoever that the EU is not a sovereign entity, far from being a sovereign state, it is not even a sovereign entity, it has only those powers which has been given under the EU treaties. If the UK courts sometimes give priority to EU law in the event of a conflict with domestic law, it is purely because our parliament has expressly instructed them to do so in our own legislation.

So it the UK a sovereign state? Yes.

Is parliament our supreme legislative authority? Yes.

So why do we keep hearing about sovereignty in this debate. The fact is that sovereignty is not really an issue in the debate, it is about power and influence and sovereignty is being used as a shorthand to talk about power and influence.

The fact is that membership of any international organization, whether it is the UN, NATO, the EU, any international organization involves a tradeoff. You agree to certain obligations in return for the opportunity to exercise greater influence in practice.

And conversely if you decide to leave or stand away from an international organization, you are basically saying, “I am prepared to accept that I am not going to influence certain things to keep my theoretical power more intact”.

The same is true for the EU. Membership of the EU obviously entails certain obligations on the part of the member states. But it offers the member states the opportunity to exercise much greater collective problem solving powers as well as to magnify their own individual influence both within Europe and in the world stage.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] I accept we have to do things at times as we been out voted, but to be told we are not allowed a vote, that is the final straw.

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

Why don't you just quickly explain to me, without checking, how you think European legislation is passed

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] eu commissioners decide laws, then my mep votes for it or not.
I have no say over the commission.

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

The EU commission proposes laws.

Both the council and the MEPs vote for laws.

You vote for MEPs, you vote for the government who sits on the council.

UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

The president of the Council only puts things to vote when he is fairly certain there is a majority, so the fact that when Britain has voted no on a handful of occasions, that we have lost is a red herring. Clearly Britain, France and Germany wield the most influence in Europe. We're about to give up our influence, yet we'll still be held to a great deal of European legislation.

People keep focusing on regulations. Having regulations in common across the EU means manufacturers can make to one standard and sell across the EU market.

Do you think the manufacturers of toasters will now make a special British toaster, or will they sell in Britain the same model as they do in the rest of Europe? Feeling the effects of EU regulations, but giving up our say.


I like your video, it makes me chuckle. The media telling the poor down trodden British folk what tod k, who have risen up against them? The alternative view is that the sun, daily mail, telegraph, times, express have managed to convince people to vote leave with rhetoric and emotional messages and very little in the way of tangible benefits for leaving.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] I only put it up as made me laugh

but Raziel, the main sticking point was Gordon Brown's betrayal on the lisbon treaty. When I asked about it during the campaign, I got trolled, and seeing it was the main thing I new about europe, I had to vote leave.

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

How many times have you exercised your wish to see us get a say in EU law by writing to an MEP?

What tangible benefits do you expect to see as a result of leaving?

I'm looking for some, because I see some pretty hair downsides looming for me, my family and my friends.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] well your kids are more likely to get an apprenticeship, as companies will need to train people.

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

Why?

 

[Raziel]

 

[Setzi Lunelle]

While I'm not disagreeing with these statistics, I wanted to layer on a couple of significant market crashes both in the UK and globally, which affected unemployment regardless of immigration.

1992 - Black Wednesday (UK)
2001 - Sept. 11
2008 - Global financial crisis

What's interesting though is during the '90s there was a global tech boom. I do think migrants, especially in engineering and technology helped fuel the stronger economy because statistically Western countries lacked the skill set at the onset of the boom.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] trades will need to train people, as a lot stopped due to increase supply.
That also reduced a lot people wages, from14ph for plaster to 10ph.

 

[Raziel]

[member="sabrina"]

So you believe we're going to leave the single market?

Out of interest, how will you feel if you've voted out and we end up with the same immigration to gain access to the single market?

 

[Darth Kentarch]

I don't know what to say about this, it is difficult trying to put it to words. It wasn't a landslide either, the out vote won by a narrow margin, which means people can be bitter about the whole thing. I hope this works out for the best in the long run for the UK.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Raziel"] I am not overly concerned immigration, but you asked for silver lining. If immigration goes down as a result.
The supply of manpower will go down
1: This would reduce rent the young people pay, so may be less 40 years old living with there mum and dad.
2: House price would fall, as less people looking for homes
3: Wages will increase, as less people to fulfill the roles
4: Easier to get your kids into a good school, as they have less competition.
5: They may get a better starter job
6: Also due lack of workforce over 50's won't be on scrap heap as easily.

Though if migration does drop, yes our gdp would drop a bit, as less cheap work force.

Though if we do stay in the eec, with freedom of movement, as long as we have some safe guards then no issue.
Safeguards
1: They need a job before coming over here, and can support themselves.
2: The company hiring would need to also hire an apprentice, so our youth get training.
3: Job to be advertised over here first.

Also we only obliged to obey for what we export to the eu

I would be happy with something like that.


Also a another silver lining
with the weakening pound port talbot, might be saved, as strong pound was one the biggest issues with the plant.

 

[Kira Vaal]

If anything this referendum has done one thing...
The average citizen has learnt that they do not like their neighbour, that despite popular belief the people of the United Kingdom are so damn separated in views that we will let it overcome common sense and unity.

 

[Hal Terrano]

I heard this and thought of you. <3 I think we may witness the dissolution of the United Kingdom over this. Perhaps not in the near term but when Scotland and Ireland both voted to stay and have a different culture from mainstream English/Welsh culture, it just makes sense. Louise for First Minister or Chief Chieftan or whatever it is Nicola is.

I love it when you agree with me, baby.