Thoughts on Invasions

[Judah Lesan]

The recent invasion of Wayland has me asking a few questions about the rules, one major one in particular. The rule stating the opposing faction cannot deny the invasion.

This issue I see is one which is unrealistic and doesn't seem to work in the real world.

Who is to say a faction cannot deny an invasion when the world is nestled deep into the influence cloud of a faction. I've see this happen in other invasions as well, and not just Primevil in Wayland. To me it is simply an unrealistic expectation that a planet as deep as Wayland was, would be a target without other worlds being take first.

To take a world this deep assumes the faction being invaded has limited, to no, defenses on the border of their territory and they only get weaker going in. Let's take WW2 as an example. To end the war in Europe the Allies needed to take Berlin, but Germans controlled as west as France. This led to the D-Day invasion of June 6, 1944. In order to take Germany, the allies had to start at the border and work their way in.

This one reality of war seems to not be present in how we play out invasions here. I feel this needs to be discussed. I'm all for factions getting to attack other factions. This is the Star Wars universe after all, but let's see campaigns which are actually that, campaigns.

If you want a planet deep in the territory of another, muster the activity to work your faction in. I know the activity issue may be a problem with this idea, but the assumptions which have to be made in order to target a world deep in an influence cloud at least warrant we discuss this issue...

So here it is... discuss away

 

[H3xle]

The problem with your analogy using World War II is that travel between worlds here takes place in such a way that unless there are interdiction measures at every possible border crossing, a fleet can ignore borders.

This can be fixed with a chain of interdiction equipped satellites strung along the border and within the territory, but that would both require dev threads and possibly suck a lot of the fun out of things.

SW can't be held to RL standards, things here just don't work that way.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Graad Hokan"] Distance is measured in Hex Grids on the Map. Which is pretty weird and makes for some very odd situations indeed. Especially given that 'Influence' moves in tentacles of infamously ambiguous size and width.

Still? Every Invasion begins with a table session to account for fairness and other such shenanigans. So hopefully most of the concerns can be ironed out there before anything super-weird happens.

So I'm going to go with: ...Jazz Hands.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Graad Hokan"]

It was an odd move, but not everyone seens the physics of star wars the same way. What appears to be completely logical to one person, often appears unrealistic to another. What makes a good, fun story for one writer may be utterly insulting to another writer.

This isn't so much an issue with rules that needs to be addressed as much as it is an issue between writers not communicating with one another, not working together to create a good story for both sides, and not being willing to compromise for the sake of fair play and good sportsmanship.

Lately people have just gotten obsessed with drama and "my side vs their side." And instead of looking at the members of an opposing faction as fellow writers to tell good, fun stories with, people are viewing "opposing writers" like a fresh corpse in COD or Halo that needs to be squatted over.

 

[Aithne Charr]

[member="Samuel Quentin"]

Not entirely true, ships have to repeatebly leave hyperspace to change their paths. Its not a simple point A to point B situation like a wormhole. So in truth the WW2 analogy does work better than you were led to believe as one would be caught by sensors and even seen at times. This though is largely ignored because of ignorance and because people just want to do something that does the most damage. So its not surprising to see someone say as you did.

 

[Javek Tysis]

I understand where [member="Graad Hokan"] is coming from, and it actually makes sense. (And I won't say much because I'm still a newbie.)

But who would want to get so overly technical about it all when you think about? This is meant to be a fun, enjoyable environment I'm sure. Not to mention the example given can't really be used for StarWars in general. You know. Space. Time. Science. Yada Yada Yoda.

And let's not forget how in Episode III the CIS invaded the Republics home planet of Coruscant and(Although not in Episode III) Kamino. Which was one of the pubs main garrison planets during the Clone Wars.

(I typed too much, didn't I?)

 

[Strider Garon]

PvP should be moderated by a DM or the use of dice should be used for one can't expect another writer ti accept loss in such a competitive nature.

Dice, Dice solves everything

grins and awaits the haters to throw stuff at him.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

[member="Samuel Quentin"]

Not entirely true, ships have to repeatebly leave hyperspace to change their paths. Its not a simple point A to point B situation like a wormhole. So in truth the WW2 analogy does work better than you were led to believe as one would be caught by sensors and even seen at times. This though is largely ignored because of ignorance and because people just want to do something that does the most damage. So its not surprising to see someone say as you did.

This implies that every system someone jumps through is liable to have sensors or an early warning detector. There's a fallacy inherent in a situation like this, wherein we take the term 'logic' and throw it around like it somehow applies to a situation. We're talking about a universe with metals that can cool, reshape and rebuild at any temperature (hot, cold, mild, whatever.) A universe in which a tiny microbe allows you to do such things as lift rocks with your mind. You literally travel between states of existence just to move between stars.

And we're sitting here going 'but logic'.

Also,

PvP should be moderated by a DM or the use of dice should be used for one can't expect another writer ti accept loss in such a competitive nature.

Dice, Dice solves everything

grins and awaits the haters to throw stuff at him.

Nice bait. Allow me to retort with, 'we value freedom here, so we will not force anyone to fight in a specific manner.' PvP will only be as moderated as the people fighting want it to be. So if you wish to use dice, go for it. If not, do that too.

Just remember to respect your fellow writers, have fun, and don't give Strider a means to hit on you.

 

[Captain Larraq]

PvP should be moderated by a DM or the use of dice should be used for one can't expect another writer ti accept loss in such a competitive nature.

Dice, Dice solves everything

grins and awaits the haters to throw stuff at him.

I statistically roll low. I have to stat the heck out of my character to counter my bad dice rolls...

 

[Aithne Charr]

[member="Sarge Potteiger"]

... Thats not at all how Hyperspace works... The drive does not create wormholes, it merely moves the ship at a high enough speed in which one can negate the need for long periods of times between destinations. I agree we RP in a world where the impossible becomes possible but only the ancient Rakatan and... the blue guys tech is the ones that created wormhole in the form of Hypergates. Its just Star wars fact. (Rakatan tech is also banned from RP mind you so unless you dev your own wormhole gates there are no allowed devices that allow what you guys do in RP 9 times out of 10.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

[member="Sarge Potteiger"]

... Thats not at all how Hyperspace works... The drive does not create wormholes, it merely moves the ship at a high enough speed in which one can negate the need for long periods of times between destinations. I agree we RP in a world where the impossible becomes possible but only the ancient Rakatan and... the blue guys tech is the ones that created wormhole in the form of Hypergates. Its just Star wars fact. (Rakatan tech is also banned from RP mind you so unless you dev your own wormhole gates there are no allowed devices that allow what you guys do in RP 9 times out of 10.

Your reality has no power here, mortal.

Hyperspace was a dimension of space-time that could only be reached by travelling at lightspeed or faster.

 

[Aithne Charr]

[member="Sarge Potteiger"]

Ignore me, im a damned idiot sometimes

 

[Judah Lesan]

All nice points and good things to consider...

[member="Graad Hokan"]
It was an odd move, but not everyone seens the physics of star wars the same way. What appears to be completely logical to one person, often appears unrealistic to another. What makes a good, fun story for one writer may be utterly insulting to another writer.

This isn't so much an issue with rules that needs to be addressed as much as it is an issue between writers not communicating with one another, not working together to create a good story for both sides, and not being willing to compromise for the sake of fair play and good sportsmanship.

Lately people have just gotten obsessed with drama and "my side vs their side." And instead of looking at the members of an opposing faction as fellow writers to tell good, fun stories with, people are viewing "opposing writers" like a fresh corpse in COD or Halo that needs to be squatted over.

THIS!!

Most OOC discussions have turned into what gives my faction the best position to win... I write for story which is why I mostly avoid invasions. If things were well collaborated from the beginning (which usually they are not) and well communicated from the beginning (which usually they are not) there would be less drama, and if there was RPJ's would have less work because the opening post would squash the crap... along with non playing DM's to run those through.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Solan Charr"]

Do you know why Jinn and Kenobi ran away from those 2 Droidakas in the early moments of episode 1? ...Neither do we!

Because HANDWAVIUM. Reason, logic, science, and RL_similar don't actually matter in Star Wars. Just ask Darth Maul. He was cut clean in half. But surprise! Attack of the Nope Returns. Now he's in the Clone Wars. Because REASONS.

You're not the idiot Charr. The genre is.

 

[Armand Temi]

Just remember to respect your fellow writers, have fun, and don't give Strider a means to hit on you.

Too late! You should have read the alternate ending he had to our duel.

[member="Sarge Potteiger"] [member="Strider Garon"]

 

[Jsc]

[member="Graad Hokan"] Here's something else I think you might find interesting. Awhile ago Tef wrote a guide called: 10 Simple Steps to Waging War. It's brutal, it's unfair, and it even mentions the use of OOC tactics to undermine your opponents. Ouch.

And we play on his map, on his website. ...Eeew.

 

[Kian Karr]

Can someone point me to the link where it says a faction can not deny an invasion? I swore it use to be under the invasion rules but I can't find it now.

 

[Josh Dragovalor]

Still of the impression that invasions are nothing but cause for unnecessary OOC drama that could be avoided with a static map, and skirmishes with actual plot instead of "LETS PLAY SPLATOON WITH THE MAP".

But whatever floats your boats.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

Too late! You should have read the alternate ending he had to our duel.

I don't need to read it.

 

[Judah Lesan]

I don't need to read it.

Yeah... Pretty sure we know how it ended