Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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 Regular Map Wipe Poll

Should we have map wipes?


  • Total voters
    116
  • Poll closed .
Maybe instead of wipes, we should be looking at what goes beyond a Major Faction? If AoC and Darkwire are Major Factions, how can they be compared to groups like the Sith or Silvers who are titans on the map?
Because we're also on the map? I'm not sure why you need to compare us though. Any major faction has the same theoretical potential to influence the map as much as older factions, be it through dominions, invasions, or diplomatics. The two things that will decree whether it happens or not, is member participation (you can have the minimum required or you can have 100, but the extra 100 won't give you the option to do more in terms of invasion/dom volume, we're all limited by the same numbers as per the rules/mandates) and the stories you conjure.

And if I may pat both Agents of Chaos and Darkwire on the shoulder, we've been doing pretty nifty things with our factions, both solo and while interacting with other factions, that doesn't fall from the stuff that other, older, and bigger major factions are doing.
 
Maybe instead of wipes, we should be looking at what goes beyond a Major Faction? If AoC and Darkwire are Major Factions, how can they be compared to groups like the Sith or Silvers who are titans on the map? A select few of these factions are not that much different compared to Minor Factions besides the Map Cloud presence. Nothing wrong with that, it's just...when you do get to be that Titanic presence on the map, there's not much left to do afterwards.

This question gets asked a lot, and not always explicitly: "Why is Darkwire a major faction if you're not worried that much about territory?"

I think the answer to this lies at the heart and soul of what makes the map game important to Chaos. There's little doubt that Chaos uses the map game as a vehicle to tell its story, and not just as flavor or background setting. The map is an intricate part of the living atmosphere here, and that's okay.

Darkwire didn't choose this to be the case, and Darkwire won't cease to be viable if the map wipes. The faction is, at its core, a group telling stories about criminals in a cyberpunk setting, working against the man (aka our corporate overlords). It's our take on the criminal underground in Star Wars that so rarely gets traction on Chaos, despite its prevalence in the main source material. So Darkwire could technically take place anywhere and still work out, it just surely benefits from having its specific placement for the flavor it can build on Denon and the surrounding worlds.

Why is Darkwire on the map and not a minor faction? Primarily because of the mechanics of Chaos. Major factions own their space and largely dictate the stories told there. If we want to tell a story, we're asked to join the map game in order to have it recognized. I know there have been many past arguments for how minor factions can influence the story, but by and large it is the major factions that make story on Chaos. Having a spot on the map is not only a claim to fame, it's the very focal point of legitimacy for Chaos storytelling. Without a colored hex of your own, it's an almost certainty that your stories will get only casual appreciation and, when it comes down to the wire and a major faction wants to contradict your story, ignored.

If you truly need a map game explanation for it, call AoC and Darkwire as "playing tall, not wide." Any strategy game enthusiasts will probably know what I mean by this, that we're focusing on building up our smaller story rather than trying to build out a large one over a big territory. It's not easy, because of Chaos' constant revolution around the map game. Dominions are a big draw for storytelling in factions, often because they serve the needs of a faction as well as telling stories. Regular faction threads just don't carry that same level of urgency.

To be quite honest, Chaos puts too much emphasis on the map. There are great stories being told, just hiding behind the urge to push cloud tendrils out further and paint the map in your preferred color. Bring those stories to the forefront, make your faction stand out for more than just what colors dominate the map.

Then you won't need to ask why Darkwire is a major faction. Its stories will speak for themselves.
 
Kainan Wolfe Kainan Wolfe laid it out pretty succinctly.

It mostly boils down to a small minority of writers who want to force and strong-arm the rest of the site into doing things the way that they want it to be done, without much empathy given for the other writers of the site who have dozens or perhaps hundreds of different viewpoints, preferences, and tolerances.

It's quite narrow-minded and shallow.
 

Kairi Leidias

Guest
K
All for it now. Wipe the map, too much complacency and comfort amongst the Factions.

Atleast once.
 

Merrick Sato

Guest
M
I love a good map wipe. The last one was so much fun that I had too much fun and burnt out, lol. But I definitely think they shouldn't be too often. Every couple of years is pretty good, and that's when the last one was - a couple years into Chaos' history, but that was five years ago.

We may or may not be overdue.

But also, the last wipe didn't remove factions from the map... it just made them smaller and oh that map frenzy to regain territory was beautiful.
 
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Ulkahall Svaraghaun

Guest
U
All I do have to say, is that no matter what direction this poll goes, I feel as if it isn't going to be representative of the overall feelings of the whole of the site, much less people who play the map game.

Let's take the highest member factions, and let's, just for the sake of argument, say that maybe 1/10 of each of these factions are actively and are currently posting. At base, without taking away the 9/10, is 1882 accounts on the site that signed up for factions.

Roughly, I'm no mathematician, that makes ~188.2~ active faction accounts.

There are currently 110 voters in the poll. Thats about 58-60 percent then of this assumed active faction accounts.

Out of that, 39 people have voted in favor of map wipes, that's only about 20% of the assumed active faction accounts.

This isn't a case for not having a map wipe or for having a map wipe.

This is just me saying that I don't think an easy to miss, easy to dismiss poll without even a good plurality of, again, assumed low ball of active accounts, voting in either way is a good monitor.

I dunno, food for thought I guess, also me rambling.
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
I've changed my vote to No.

Some people seem to think I'm coming for their sand castles when I just thought we were discussing entrenchment. Burr. I'm out.
 

Kairi Leidias

Guest
K
I'm allowed to say Factions, I'm not going to narrow it down to make anyone feel better if that happens to be the case where you participate.

Ryv Ryv - And that is why I said complacency and comfort.

A little map wipe would just increase the writing outside their boundaries.
 
Would it though?

Hypothetically if we wiped everyone down to 3 hexes, I dare say most folks would be focussing on getting the hexes back they really wanted. More Dominions than invasions.

I'm not sure whether a wipe would actually change much of anything except chopping down the tall poppies. The big factions will still grow back faster than the small ones. The big factions still are better to defend themselves.
 
You're definitely welcome to voice your opinions, however that still doesn't change that what was said was neither fair nor ideal from my point of view. If you want to see people change to write outside their boundaries, especially the one's supposedly put in play by factions - then step up and be a leader in the community. Show them the way, and lead by example.

If you have an idea and want to involve others in it? Throw up interest threads, approach faction's with the idea. Your imagination is quite literally the limit.

EDIT: If the mindset behind any map wipe is simply to reset the board, without an unearned story reasoning behind and is or was intended to be malicious in any way? I'm not a fan of that in any way, shape or form. I get the merits behind it. I really do. However, I'm still of the firm belief that the system isn't the one at fault here. It's the people using it. Yes, you could consider a map wipe to be a justified tool, or a proverbial slap in the face to get people to smarten up - but there's a significant number of people outside that defined metric who are having fun writing stories, or playing text-based 4x games on a roleplaying board. I don't think it's fair that they get painted with the same brush and punished for the select few that have toxic personalities.

Basically, just because a few apples are rotten, doesn't mean the whole cart needs to be thrown out.

Second Edit: They way. Lol - Typos - amiright?
 
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Chancellor Emerita / Advisor of State
To preface, I pretty much skipped over the last two pages other than getting the gist of what everyone was saying. However, I did want to take a moment to explain my point of view because that seems to be what everyone else has started doing.

I voted no. Though I have been in the GA since May, I still consider myself new, and since joining I have participated (often in very big ways) in all of our dominions. That adds up to a considerable amount of work that I have personally put in, but also what the GA as a newer faction has collectively put in to claim new territory and generate content on a level I don't think the site has seen in a while. I personally wouldn't want to lose that progress by Halloween and have to start all over.

However, I am not flatly opposed to the idea of a map wipe farther down the road where we have had a chance to fully develop a cohesive narrative.

What Ryv said hit home. Factions really aren't doing a whole lot with each other outside of their boundaries and for once the oft-repeated empty platitude about members driving the content or whatever is very fitting. If Majors don't start working to increase interaction with each other it just won't happen. On my part, I've been reaching out to other factions to try to set up political/diplomatic cross-over threads. I think it's important that we remember that not every Major Faction interaction has to be through an invasion or invasion assist. There was a pretty big missed opportunity for politician characters to try to engage with CIS during CIS First, for example.

Anyway, that's my thought on that.
 

Melia Siari

Guest
M
If there were constant site events where portions of the map were unable to be occupied for a time and required the factions that lost that territory to either reclaim it or leave it be, I feel that would be completely different than the sort of idea you get when someone says "wipe the map every month".

If flashpoints created mcguffin issues in space that made factions lose territority or be unable to obtain territory or literally anything with RP relevancy, then I could get behind a regular sort of "thing" that happens. I mean, monthly seems like it'd be a bit overwhelming after some point, but if they were tied into the quarterly flashpoints and let's say 10% of a faction's hexes (rounded down, so a small faction like darkwire would still be 0 hexes effected) were changed to some kind of contested status and required some kind of effort for the faction to take them back then I think I could get behind that.

I just can't find myself supporting more than a once-off on a strictly not-regular basis for something like a netherworld-ish map wipe, where factions were set way back to like 3-6 planets each (or I guess 2-3 hexes with the current map system)

Edited for dyslexic silliness
 

Ulkahall Svaraghaun

Guest
U
Yea, the term map wipe puts a different idea in my head than “events that take away some hexes, but doesn’t inherently destroy factions, and focused on a galactic narrative instead of a big ol factory reset.”

The above with is something I’d be fine with, map wipes are not something I’d be fine with
 

Ulkahall Svaraghaun

Guest
U
I think that’s a really good compromise between the two camps here, honestly. Satisfies folks like me who wants a consistent and organic narrative and the folks who want to trim the grass a bit for growth. As long as it’s handled in a well done manner, and not just “you lose these hexes” and has a good story around it, I’m game.

means a lot to see the head admin moving for compromise and mutual benefit rather than just one way or not. Valiens Nantaris Valiens Nantaris
 

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