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Spoiler Obi-Wan Kenobi (Spoiler Discussion)

No No you see I think the aged Anakin is far more poetic. We're watching a mixture of Kenobi fighting a version of Anakin that is what he might be if he hadn't turned mixed with his past. I wasn't even certain that the events even took place, was it a figment of his imagination playing out how it might have been?

I liked the older Anakin look-far more poetic.
 
In Writing, There is Passion
No No you see I think the aged Anakin is far more poetic. We're watching a mixture of Kenobi fighting a version of Anakin that is what he might be if he hadn't turned mixed with his past. I wasn't even certain that the events even took place, was it a figment of his imagination playing out how it might have been?

I liked the older Anakin look-far more poetic.

I gotta ask, what do you mean by a version of Anakin? Are you referring to memory of the duel between Anakin and Obi In Part V?
 
In Writing, There is Passion
Man.. I wept through most of Part VI!

  • The Duel was epic
  • I loved Anakin admitting he destroyed himself. Blame shifting over!
  • The Qui-Gon and Palpatine cameos were nicely done.
  • Reva’s redemption was refreshing, to see a darksider not die after becoming a Force Prodigal.
  • Major lines like “Hello There,” and “I will do what I must,” were nice additions.
  • At last epic music, including Jedi Theme and Imperial March!
  • Seeing Hayden, with half the mask severed and his voice shifting from Anakin to Vader’s was great! “Obi-Wan!”
  • Padme’s holster for Leia was a nice touch.
  • They explained why Leia doesn’t act like she knows Obi in ANH.
  • Owen softened. Beru was bada$$!
  • This felt the most like SW since Part V.
Overall 10/10, cause I balled through it. So much emotion.
 
Well-Known Member
I thought it was great, the finale worked for me, they managed to not kill their redemption arc villain (third times a charm I guess?), they settled all the dialogue for A New Hope AND why Vader seemed more cautious the second time around.

Every scene with little Leia was lovely.

My only gripe throughout the rest of the series is how laughably and unbelievably incompetent every single Inquistor and their fortress seems. But it's a minor thing in the face of utmost respect for Vader, Kenobi, and their canon.
 
In Writing, There is Passion
I agree that The Inquisitors are a joke now. I do like that is basically showed the dark sise tiers, Inquistors are Acolytes, Vader is a Lord, and Palpatine is Dark Lord and Master.
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ
Sadly, this one didn't do it for me. I enjoyed scenes, and moments, but overall not so much.

The writing was terrible. I know people are praising it for giving two sentence solutions to canon continuity, but I can't accept that lazy kind of writing to (try and) fill in plotholes and canon alignment. Here's some examples:

- Obi-Wan knew Anakin was Vader. That's 100% canon. Revenge of the Sith, security footage:

Obi: "It can't be..."
Sidious/Palps: "You have done well, my new Apprentice. Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire."

So... why was Obi shocked at the revelation in TV episode 1 from Reva? Vader has been active for 10 years by this point, there's no way rumors and gossip haven't reached Obi's notice (since, you know, it's his job to keep eyes on dangers to Luke from the Empire).

- Obi severed his connection to the Force, despite his mission being to train Luke in the Force, and to protect him from the Sith/Empire? That's redundant.

- Anakin and the troopers don't check bodies, even those of younglings? Not very thorough for a 'scorched earth' policy.

- Obi and Leia's personal connection makes no sense, there's no reference or hint to it in any previous canon - including Clone Wars series, Rebels, or ANH - and people will argue that 'they agreed to keep it secret', but when Obi dies, Leia has no emotional reaction or concern beyond patting Luke's shoulder; additionally, her message to Obi didn't need to maintain the pretense, as by that point she was openly admitting that she and her father were traitors to the Empire, so they were criminals to the Empire anyway - no matter who saw it, the Organas were implicated and caught, so why 'pretend' anymore by that point?

- Reva is stabbed, left to die, manages to find a message that gives vague information - Bail, Tatooine, children - but that immediately connects Vader to Luke as someone important to Vader? The more likely scenario is that Bail is working with the Jedi underground, and sent some force sensitive children to Tatooine with Owen right? So Reva's reaction and single-minded pursuit of Luke makes no sense, there's literally no connection between Vader and Luke (only Obi-Wan and Bail and Owen, to Luke) - and before anyone argues 'but Owen is related to Anakin', keep in mind that Reva didn't know who he was when they met, nor did she get a last name to make that connection (if at all)

- Obi-Wan doesn't follow up about his dropped items, doesn't delete the message from Bail, and lets Leia determine a lot of his decisions (even though she's 10)

- Vader pulls the SSD away from the underground transport, instead of just taking his shuttle after Obi and maintaining pursuit of both targets; also, what happened to TIE fighters? Pilots on strike or all TIE squadrons in the repair bay? Also, SSDs are now apparently the most useless vessel in SW canon, since they couldn't even hit a weaving transport after... hours? Days? Weeks? Which leads to:

- Reva magically teleports from where she got stabbed to Tatooine. There's no explanation, no ship she could have taken (why would Vader leave a vessel for her? and the other one was torn apart by Vader - but that's not the biggest issue, continue on), not to mention her level of 'medical treatment' was a bandage around the hole that went through her sternum, lungs, spine and body... but, beyond that, let's argue that she took some time to find a transport, get medical, travel to Tatooine. Sure, okay:

That means the Jedi underground, Obi, Leia and the SSD/Vader have been in a chase for multiple days, if not weeks, to account for Reva's movements - and before people say 'the events were separate, they took place at different times!', I would draw your attention to the fact Obi sensed Luke was in danger from Reva - at that exact moment - and hyperjumped to Tatooine, wherein he arrived in sync with events taking place.

So, no, there was no time difference, each event was happening concurrent.

- Hyperspace is instant now, cool.

- Roken (Ice Cube's son) says the transport being chased by Vader can't be repaired for hours, they don't have time; Obi says he will lure Vader away; Roken then appears moments later and says "you don't have to do that, we're almost done fixing it" - so which is it? Hours with no time, or hold tight we're almost done.

Additionally, where did that huge internal ship come from? The size of it took up the central portion of the transport (go on, have a look again), and yet it was hidden from the passenger area in the central portion of the same transport somehow? Also, that smaller ship isn't exactly small, and it has a hyperdrive (used after the Obi/Vader second fight) that Obi uses to get to Luke/Reva... so why couldn't they have used that smaller ship and just squished in?

- Obi lands on the rock planet, Vader arrives afterward in his shuttle and says:

"Have you come to destroy me, Obi-Wan?"

Vader followed Obi. Wrong tense there, Darth. Should have been "I have come to destroy you, Obi-Wan." Oops.

- Obi needs a reminder of what he's fighting for, and in his moment of reflection sees thoughts of Leia - and 1 of Luke - despite only having met Leia 2-3 days prior, and having been watching over Luke for the last 10 years. Seems Luke's an afterthought - literally - at this point?

- Engage over the top and stupid Force Unleashed levels of Force use in 3... 2... 1...! Both Obi and Vader suffer from this obscene power increase randomly, for those 'omg wowowowow' moments, which just don't factor in for their characters since ANH is in 9 short years, and both of them have about 25 years worth of aging to do. Oops.

- Owen/Beru were just attacked, and defeated, leaving Luke in dire circumstances... but they (Obi and them) agree that Owen/Beru are enough to keep him safe? What? They literally just failed to keep him safe.

- Obi lets an ex-Inquisitor, and arguably still dark sider, leave with the knowledge of Luke (unjustly discovered/realized)? I'm sorry, but Obi should have made the tough choice and ended Reva, the stakes were too high and Luke had a destiny to fulfill. It might be against the Jedi code, but Yoda and Obi had pinned everything on Vader's kids surviving and becoming the weapons needed against the Empire (Luke was just first on that proverbial chopping block), so secrecy was everything.

It was great seeing Obi-Wan again, Ewan is always a pleasure to watch, and Anakin/Hayden being back was pretty neat, too. I thought little Leia was amusing, if a little Mary Sue-like, but I digress. Bail was fine, too, it was nice seeing old faces again.

Reva I didn't much care for or about, I had issues with the character's past and how inept Vader seems with the lightsaber (seriously, how many other younglings survived being stabbed - Reva survived twice now!), and I can see what the writers were ""trying"" to do - and they certainly tried their little tushies off - but the concept was flawed from the start. Not only was Reva presented as the most extreme Inquisitor (aggressive, slicing hands, throwing knives, torturing Leia), but her redemption wasn't a redemption - she assisted/was complicit in killing men, women, children and working for the Inquisitors for X number of years, to get back at Vader... and when she failed, she decided to kill a random child on Tatooine (and there was no way she could logically make the connection to Vader and Luke, no matter how hard it's argued), only to stop when she sees herself in that position?

Also, she said to Owen she wanted 'justice'. Where's the justice in hunting down a child and killing him, to show Vader what for? How can not killing one child, this one time, excuse everything else she's done in that pursuit of justice revenge - including, as stated in the show, working with the Inquisitors to hunt down FS, Jedi, and allies. Not to mention being willing to torture Leia, a child, to... get information on the Jedi underground, to get closer to Vader, to ultimately betray him??

But... Reva was already part of the Inquisitors? She was already 'close' to Vader, in that she crossed paths with him routinely and had multiple opportunities to enact her plan - so I don't see how maintaining the charade beyond being accepted into the group, and meeting Vader/being able to get close those first few times (in those first months), serves any purpose beyond making Reva an obvious, extreme villain who shouldn't be redeemed.

Also, just for arguments sake, I also don't think Vader was redeemed in the way people think. He acted out of love for his child, which redeemed him personally and to Luke, but the galaxy - and those he had hurt, harmed, threatened or otherwise done terrible things to - wouldn't have accepted that at all, and had Vader survived would have been tried and (at least) locked up for the remainder of his life.

The same should apply to Reva, as she has also done numerous terrible things, over (assumingly) numerous years in Vader's service.

The other Inquisitors weren't any better, they were all inept, too. Just cardboard cutouts, lacking any motivation or purpose other than 'I'm the bad guy - duh'. Grand Inquisitor was okay, but still just a shadow of the version from the other TV series. Where were the Inquisitors from Fallen Order? I liked those characters, they had depth and range!

Also, why did Vader repeatedly just not kill people? Why didn't anyone confirm kills? It's a bit silly... I bet Qui Gon is a little peeved right now, right? Only Jedi to die to a single stab to the stomach in canon. Yikes. Also, Vader is now canonically a moron, who's both incapable of killing, easily manipulated (by his Inquisitors), lacks any military tactics or capacity to multitask with multiple objectives despite leading the Empire's forces for 10 years (forgot he had TIEs while chasing down Obi/Roken/etc)...

Finally, Obi-Wan vs Vader shouldn't have happened. Because, no matter how it turned out, Obi-Wan had to win - because he must remain the master, per ANH - and that means he allows Vader to live... which means he leaves Vader alive, willingly, which makes Obi-Wan complicit in the deaths of millions/billions (Alderaan, among other deaths), by not finishing Vader then and there. Oops.

All in all, there were some cool/great moments - snippets, really - but overall I thought it was a deeply flawed narrative and writing outing. No amount of nostalgia can excuse conversational contradictions in the same conversations, nor can the impossible leaps in logic or scene feasibility (ie: teleporting) be swept under the rug.

This was a series dealing with the OG characters, it needed a writer who lives and breathes Star Wars. It should have been an introspective of Obi-Wan in seclusion, not leaving Tatooine (because it's his job to stay there, to protect Luke), while having flashbacks and trying to work out where it all went wrong - that would have allowed many flashbacks between Obi and Anakin, specifically during that Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith period, where expanded sequences could have revealed Obi recognizing his padawan's slow descent more fully, before ultimately coming to terms with the fact Anakin went to the dark side willingly (even if for good reasons - but we know how that goes).

Anyway.

It was okay. It could have been a lot better, in my opinion, and I won't forgive the writer's/editor's faux pas with the scripting. Sorry not sorry.
 
Emberlene's Daughter, The Jedi Generalist
Sadly, this one didn't do it for me. I enjoyed scenes, and moments, but overall not so much.

The writing was terrible. I know people are praising it for giving two sentence solutions to canon continuity, but I can't accept that lazy kind of writing to (try and) fill in plotholes and canon alignment. Here's some examples:



It was great seeing Obi-Wan again, Ewan is always a pleasure to watch, and Anakin/Hayden being back was pretty neat, too. I thought little Leia was amusing, if a little Mary Sue-like, but I digress. Bail was fine, too, it was nice seeing old faces again.

Reva I didn't much care for or about, I had issues with the character's past and how inept Vader seems with the lightsaber (seriously, how many other younglings survived being stabbed - Reva survived twice now!), and I can see what the writers were ""trying"" to do - and they certainly tried their little tushies off - but the concept was flawed from the start. Not only was Reva presented as the most extreme Inquisitor (aggressive, slicing hands, throwing knives, torturing Leia), but her redemption wasn't a redemption - she assisted/was complicit in killing men, women, children and working for the Inquisitors for X number of years, to get back at Vader... and when she failed, she decided to kill a random child on Tatooine (and there was no way she could logically make the connection to Vader and Luke, no matter how hard it's argued), only to stop when she sees herself in that position?

Also, she said to Owen she wanted 'justice'. Where's the justice in hunting down a child and killing him, to show Vader what for? How can not killing one child, this one time, excuse everything else she's done in that pursuit of justice revenge - including, as stated in the show, working with the Inquisitors to hunt down FS, Jedi, and allies. Not to mention being willing to torture Leia, a child, to... get information on the Jedi underground, to get closer to Vader, to ultimately betray him??

But... Reva was already part of the Inquisitors? She was already 'close' to Vader, in that she crossed paths with him routinely and had multiple opportunities to enact her plan - so I don't see how maintaining the charade beyond being accepted into the group, and meeting Vader/being able to get close those first few times (in those first months), serves any purpose beyond making Reva an obvious, extreme villain who shouldn't be redeemed.

Also, just for arguments sake, I also don't think Vader was redeemed in the way people think. He acted out of love for his child, which redeemed him personally and to Luke, but the galaxy - and those he had hurt, harmed, threatened or otherwise done terrible things to - wouldn't have accepted that at all, and had Vader survived would have been tried and (at least) locked up for the remainder of his life.

The same should apply to Reva, as she has also done numerous terrible things, over (assumingly) numerous years in Vader's service.

The other Inquisitors weren't any better, they were all inept, too. Just cardboard cutouts, lacking any motivation or purpose other than 'I'm the bad guy - duh'. Grand Inquisitor was okay, but still just a shadow of the version from the other TV series. Where were the Inquisitors from Fallen Order? I liked those characters, they had depth and range!

Also, why did Vader repeatedly just not kill people? Why didn't anyone confirm kills? It's a bit silly... I bet Qui Gon is a little peeved right now, right? Only Jedi to die to a single stab to the stomach in canon. Yikes. Also, Vader is now canonically a moron, who's both incapable of killing, easily manipulated (by his Inquisitors), lacks any military tactics or capacity to multitask with multiple objectives despite leading the Empire's forces for 10 years (forgot he had TIEs while chasing down Obi/Roken/etc)...

Finally, Obi-Wan vs Vader shouldn't have happened. Because, no matter how it turned out, Obi-Wan had to win - because he must remain the master, per ANH - and that means he allows Vader to live... which means he leaves Vader alive, willingly, which makes Obi-Wan complicit in the deaths of millions/billions (Alderaan, among other deaths), by not finishing Vader then and there. Oops.

All in all, there were some cool/great moments - snippets, really - but overall I thought it was a deeply flawed narrative and writing outing. No amount of nostalgia can excuse conversational contradictions in the same conversations, nor can the impossible leaps in logic or scene feasibility (ie: teleporting) be swept under the rug.

This was a series dealing with the OG characters, it needed a writer who lives and breathes Star Wars. It should have been an introspective of Obi-Wan in seclusion, not leaving Tatooine (because it's his job to stay there, to protect Luke), while having flashbacks and trying to work out where it all went wrong - that would have allowed many flashbacks between Obi and Anakin, specifically during that Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith period, where expanded sequences could have revealed Obi recognizing his padawan's slow descent more fully, before ultimately coming to terms with the fact Anakin went to the dark side willingly (even if for good reasons - but we know how that goes).

Anyway.

It was okay. It could have been a lot better, in my opinion, and I won't forgive the writer's/editor's faux pas with the scripting. Sorry not sorry.

Dude... that was beautiful and well spoken.... and I agree with you.

THough if I recall Deborah Chow's original scripts that were Obi-Wan being reflective about what had happened were rejected for the rewrites to add a female lead.
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ
Dude... that was beautiful and well spoken.... and I agree with you.

THough if I recall Deborah Chow's original scripts that were Obi-Wan being reflective about what had happened were rejected for the rewrites to add a female lead.

This saddens me. I can kind of see in my mind what it could have been, but instead it turned into a random collect and escort the NPC quest from a game, in essence. It also took away the focus of Obi-Wan, per the namesake, which is doubly sad.

My thoughts on Reva remain, as above.

And I initially enjoyed Leia, I found her to be spunky and witty like she would be in the original trilogy, but over time I realized she was given far too much agency and decision-making opportunities. I love Leia (as the character, generally) but she's still 10 years old in this series, which means she can't already be comparable to OT Leia (nor should she, character growth is a thing and is very needed for compelling story). Not to mention, by being so capable with literally everything, young Leia undermines older Leia's development arc in the originals... because OT Leia sure forgot a lot apparently.

Amusingly, I told my friend that the most accurate reaction from 10 year old Leia was when Obi-Wan visited at the end of episode 6, and she rushed to that Lola droid (rather than the person who had saved her) instead of him! :D
 
Matt the Radar Tech Matt the Radar Tech
I'm in agreement a lot with what you said. I enjoyed the series, it was fun, especially the final Vader vs Obi-Wan battle...but the series was a bit of a mess.

On the technical side I found it rather choppy with direction, lots of close and jump cuts. And the budget was noticeably bad. Poor CGI especially on the space ships like the speeders in episode 4.

And then there's the plot contrivances and oddities. How did Reva get to Tattooine? Why does Vader now give up his search? Why aren't Bail and Leia Organa being arrested for their part in the conspiracy?

So yes, it was fun. Great to see Ewan back, the real highlight. But also a lot of plodding and padding too.
 
Overall I liked it, Ewan and Hayden were excellent as always. Reva didn't do it for me, and ultimately could have been cut out and nothing would have changed. Here's what I would have done differently:
  • Open the show with Black Krrsantan threatening to kill Owen/Luke and have Obi fight him off, referencing the comic where BK receives his facial scars. This gives us some neat early action and also links it to the Book of Boba Fett where he shows up again.
  • Have some criminal organisation kidnap Leia prompting Obi to go rescue her, doesn't have to involve the Inquisitors at this point.
  • Have Leia be a subplot, and resolve it in Part 2 by bringing her back to Alderaan. Obi uses the Force to rescue her, which then leads to the Empire picking up on his whereabouts. Maybe one of the kidnappers survives and tips them off.
  • The Inquisitors are dispatched to track him down, forcing Obi to lead them on a merry chase rather than return to Tatooine right away.
  • Let the Grand Inquisitor lead the chase until he gets bested, prompting Vader to take matters into his own hands.
  • Obi gets thrashed in their first duel before being rescued by Rebels. Have someone we know (Captain Rex, Quinlan Vos, Saw Guerrera, Cal Kestis, Bad Batch, etc.) lead a rag-tag team, including some ex-clone troopers for that spicy interaction.
  • Devote an episode to Obi recuperating, meditating, regain his connection to the Force. Maybe have him speak briefly to Qui-Gon.
  • Include WAY more flashbacks, in particular to the Clone Wars, and have a young Ahsoka make an appearance in said flashbacks for dat easy fan service.
  • Obi faces Vader again and the fight plays out much the same as in the show's finale.
  • He returns to Tatooine a renewed man and gets to finally meet Luke.
  • End it with him having a heart-to-heart with Qui-Gon, who now appears before him as a Force Ghost.
All-in-all, there was too much filler for such a short series. Had it been a ten-parter I could have forgiven them for it, but as is I wanted that introspective, reflective Obi-Wan Kenobi show they promised us. I absolutely loved moments here and there, but a lot could have been cut out or done differently to achieve the same end result.

Also, should've just called it "Kenobi". Didn't need the full name.
 
So I loved the show but I do find it funny that by the end of ROTS Obi-Wan is:

A Hermit on Tattooine
Having Beaten Darth Vader
Watching over Luke
Training with Qui-Gon.

That is what we knew to be true. No one thought that he wouldn't be able to talk with Qui-Gon when III ended. They knew "Cool he's gonna chill with the Weak Chinn Jinn. Cool."

But the show ends with Obi-Wan:

A Hermit on Tattooine
Having Beaten Darth Vader
Watching over Luke
Training with Qui-Gon.
 

Matt the Radar Tech

ꜰɪxɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ʀᴀᴅᴀʀs ᴀɴᴅ sᴛᴜꜰꜰ
Wasn't there also a mention from Yoda, in canon (not legends), that Qui Gon wasn't able to appear as a force ghost because he hadn't completed training or preparation?

Everyone seems to be coming back, wanting those Disney cheques, hah!
 
In Writing, There is Passion
Overall I liked it, Ewan and Hayden were excellent as always. Reva didn't do it for me, and ultimately could have been cut out and nothing would have changed. Here's what I would have done differently:
  • Open the show with Black Krrsantan threatening to kill Owen/Luke and have Obi fight him off, referencing the comic where BK receives his facial scars. This gives us some neat early action and also links it to the Book of Boba Fett where he shows up again.
  • Have some criminal organisation kidnap Leia prompting Obi to go rescue her, doesn't have to involve the Inquisitors at this point.
  • Have Leia be a subplot, and resolve it in Part 2 by bringing her back to Alderaan. Obi uses the Force to rescue her, which then leads to the Empire picking up on his whereabouts. Maybe one of the kidnappers survives and tips them off.
  • The Inquisitors are dispatched to track him down, forcing Obi to lead them on a merry chase rather than return to Tatooine right away.
  • Let the Grand Inquisitor lead the chase until he gets bested, prompting Vader to take matters into his own hands.
  • Obi gets thrashed in their first duel before being rescued by Rebels. Have someone we know (Captain Rex, Quinlan Vos, Saw Guerrera, Cal Kestis, Bad Batch, etc.) lead a rag-tag team, including some ex-clone troopers for that spicy interaction.
  • Devote an episode to Obi recuperating, meditating, regain his connection to the Force. Maybe have him speak briefly to Qui-Gon.
  • Include WAY more flashbacks, in particular to the Clone Wars, and have a young Ahsoka make an appearance in said flashbacks for dat easy fan service.
  • Obi faces Vader again and the fight plays out much the same as in the show's finale.
  • He returns to Tatooine a renewed man and gets to finally meet Luke.
  • End it with him having a heart-to-heart with Qui-Gon, who now appears before him as a Force Ghost.
All-in-all, there was too much filler for such a short series. Had it been a ten-parter I could have forgiven them for it, but as is I wanted that introspective, reflective Obi-Wan Kenobi show they promised us. I absolutely loved moments here and there, but a lot could have been cut out or done differently to achieve the same end result.

Also, should've just called it "Kenobi". Didn't need the full name.

Agree with all of this!
 
I don't know. I was eagerly awaiting every single episode of mandalorian season 1.

Season 2 I really enjoyed, but it started giving way to a lot of fan service and setting up other shows.

Boba Fett was just boring fan service with the exception of one great mandalorian episode stuck in there.

This was...it was definitely another show. It definitely has Obi Wan in it. How much of this can they churn out before a series is the Solo of Disney+? Will that be Andor or Ashoka I wonder.
 
Emberlene's Daughter, The Jedi Generalist
Andor might be able to do something but half of what made him interesting was he did questionable things. Him infiltrating and possibly harming his own allies for the mission because the ggoal is more important... might not translate as good.

Ahsoka I think will be you limit... Rosario did fairly well as the characters.... but it is going to likely rely on Sabine, on Ezra, on Thrawn, maybe Luke and Bo Katan. Now all of those elements could be great but it could end up being guess who appears next.
 

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