Suggestion A step in between minor and major?

[Ronhar Tane]

Hey folks! I have an idea that I've been thinking about for a little while now. I think its especially relevant given the Farworlds Alliance's efforts to go major (which, by the way, you should check them out, they're a really neat faction)

So, at the moment, there are two types of factions on Star Wars, Chaos: Minor Factions and Major Factions. Minor factions can be started by anyone, and are an excellent way to get people involved in the community and RP. The problem with them is that they cannot own territory on the map. Major Factions, conversely, are an integral part of the Chaos community and have formulated countless opportunities for RP and social networking. They are, however, quite difficult to maintain, and getting to the point where a faction can go major is equally difficult, if not even harder.

So, this is the idea that I had.

What if there was a transitory stage in between a minor faction and a major faction? A sort of "middle point" between the two? You could call it like a "moderate faction" or something similar. You could allow players to claim territory but cap the amount of hexes they could get at a certain point, and you could institute increased or decreased activity checks.

"Well that's neat and all Ronhar, but why? What's the point? Why throw a third type of faction into the mix when the two we already have are doing just fine?"

Well, here's the way I see it. Starting a minor faction is quite easy, but getting to major is rather difficult, as is keeping the player and activity count to stay major. I think this would be a good idea for the following reasons:

1. It would serve as a good in between point for factions going from minor to major. To this day, I still do not know what exactly the requirements are to go from minor to major, though I do have a rough idea (real talk though, from what I've seen, aint no way you can run a major faction with FIVE players, but that's a discussion for another time). I think having measurable metrics for a faction going from minor to moderate, and then moderate to major, would help streamline the process and make things easier for everyone involved. That takes some of the guesswork out of it and allows factions to have a better understanding of where they stand in the process
2. Many factions control planets despite not being major, and I think the map should be reflected to show that. It's not as if all this RP happens in a void, and major factions trying to invade these planets should recognize the history and the RP that went on there
3. I think its a nice way to reward and incentivize minor factions to keep growing and RPing, which will eventually help them go major if that's what they want to do

Again though, these are just my ramblings, and you're free to tell me what it's a terrible idea, why it would never work, why it's been tried and failed miserably, why I shpuld never offer suggestions again, etc. Like I said, it's just a though I had, and I'm just really curious to see if people agree, disagree or don't really care. What are you thoughts?

 

[Siv Dragr]

I like the concept. Maybe a "Moderate" faction can be capped at the starting blob of hexes, can't launch invasions, and can't control special hexes (resource hexes, superhexes, etc.) Way to elevate some minor factions that are pretty active but maybe not ready to participate fully in the map game. Can also serve as a probationary period between going from minor to major, especially for factions that don't quite make the chopping block but staff are willing to give more time to develop.

Imo having the map more populated by factions is never a bad thing.

 

[Laphisto]

I completely agree with this, having a way to get little blobs on the otherwise empty map would look nice, and at teh same time it could encourage major factions to interact with other minor factions. Because let's be honest, not everyone is going around reading everything thats associated with a planet before they launch a dominion or something of the like, having these n between factions painted could increase RP opportunities. could even label the hexes as more spheres of influence instead of owned territory

 

[Bido Roz’lyn]

Personally I like this sort of thinking. I too feel like there's an in-between variable missing from the faction structure of this game, and this could be the key to filling that gap.

Another idea that has been percolating in the back of my head is as an addition to a mid-tier faction, another option could be a non-hex holding major faction. Some faction concepts are not suitable for claiming and holding territory, like for example, a corporate faction, criminal faction, or a religious organization faction like the Jedi. Holding territory causes writers to shoehorn their idea into a format that justifies hex claiming to obtain major faction status. Criminals, religions, and corporations are all critical components to star wars storytelling, and they should be impactful to the map game without having to independently control territory.

In this alternative, a non-hex-holding major faction would contribute to the map game, not by holding hexes, but instead by granting mandates to hex-holding major factions. Jedi factions could increase hex defensibility to a faction that they are allied with. A mando-mercenary faction could increase the effectiveness of invasions to some degree through contract. Corporation factions could increase dreadnought capacity or something...

In this case, one could do away with the part where hex holding factions selectively choose mandates, and replace that with inter-faction collaboration. The dynamics would be exciting, with believable stakes, and non-hex holding factions can adhere to the core of their arctypes without having to shoehorn hex game mechanics into their concept.

Another additional suggestion is to combine these two ideas together, where a mid-tier hex holding faction needs the support of a mandate granting faction to graduate to the next stage or something.

This idea is just in the spitball phase right now. I hope to do a better write up later.

 

[R'ayne Asara]

Ronhar Tane

I really love this concept, and if the Rebellion Mandate was still in play, I think more factions along the line of what your proposing would definitely benefit from it.

I believe more stories and Faction building can come from this, and alliances with Majors (pros and cons withstanding) could add to more joint stories and a chance for other writers to meet other writers they might not have for various reasons.

 

[Aselia Verd]

I don't really see what problem a third faction type actually solves.

The requirements to become a Major are already fairly minimal: 30 days of activity, five unique writers, and acceptance of the MFO code of conduct. The criteria are already quite clear.

What it actually seems like is that 'we want people to acknowledge what we are writing on a planet'. This doesn't solve this. I can start a private thread right now on Jutrand and say that it's an ice planet devoid of life. It does not make it true. Make a codex entry if you want to codify it, but again, nobody is obligated to care about that unless it's a world you created.

Honestly, this would just clutter the map more, and likely would result in dead factions occupying space on the map that the admins have to remove far more frequently than they currently do.

 

[Mia Monroe]

I hate to break it to you, but if making it to major is hard, you are doing it wrong.

If you can't meet the minimum requirements for major then you cannot meet the minimum requirements for the map game. A middle ground will not work, as Aselia Verd said, it would just create more dead wood for the admins to tidy up.

I would suggest, as a brutal piece of advice, instead of looking for an external solution to your problem, reflect and fix the internal ones.

 

[Ronhar Tane]

I don't really see what problem a third faction type actually solves.

The requirements to become a Major are already fairly minimal: 30 days of activity, five unique writers, and acceptance of the MFO code of conduct. The criteria are already quite clear.

What it actually seems like is that 'we want people to acknowledge what we are writing on a planet'. This doesn't solve this. I can start a private thread right now on Jutrand and say that it's an ice planet devoid of life. It does not make it true. Make a codex entry if you want to codify it, but again, nobody is obligated to care about that unless it's a world you created.

Honestly, this would just clutter the map more, and likely would result in dead factions occupying space on the map that the admins have to remove far more frequently than they currently do.

See you say that, but Farworlds wasn't accepted as major, and to my knowledge they fulfill all those requirements. Personally, I could be wrong, but that's one of my reasons as to why I think it could be a good idea. Even putting aside all the other stuff about RPing on planets, I think that would be a good idea.

Additionally, back when the Imperial Confederation was still active, we failed the activity check needed to maintain our status as major. To my knowledge, we have at least five players, we were active for the month, and we had obviously accepted the code of conduct, but we were told we didn't fulfill requirements. That's why I personally am a bit confused. Could just be me, to be fair, but I do believe that in of itself is a valid reason.

 

[Aselia Verd]

See you say that, but Farworlds wasn't accepted as major, and to my knowledge they fulfill all those requirements. Personally, I could be wrong, but that's one of my reasons as to why I think it could be a good idea. Even putting aside all the other stuff about RPing on planets, I think that would be a good idea.

Additionally, back when the Imperial Confederation was still active, we failed the activity check needed to maintain our status as major. To my knowledge, we have at least five players, we were active for the month, and we had obviously accepted the code of conduct, but we were told we didn't fulfill requirements. That's why I personally am a bit confused. Could just be me, to be fair, but I do believe that in of itself is a valid reason.

I will quote Valiens:

"We feel that currently your activity as a major faction is not strong enough to get you on the map based on what you have and the number of people who signed up."

I won't pretend to know the exact calculus of the admins, but clearly, they found the activity around that group insufficient. From my knowledge, its unique number of writers and how active they are in faction threads.

 

[Aether Verd]

I say this as a crackhead who has had the privilege of starting and maintaining several major factions over the years:

The spirit of the idea is essentially allowing people to be major without meeting the requirements of being a major faction. It's an idea that'll create more work for site staff and more bloat on the map.

I get it though, as we have similar discussions every year about the map game. Folks want to have their concepts and stories enshrined on the map. Folks want to have the protections that a fun color on the map provides, such as "my story is canon see?" Or at a basic level folks want to see their community recognized for the awesome stories they're writing.

And right now, the requirements are as easy and straightforward as ever. You can do this. Might take a round or two, but any group of five can pull off going major. Trust me, I've done it too many times.

Sincerely, crackhead.

 

[Ronhar Tane]

I say this as a crackhead who has had the privilege of starting and maintaining several major factions over the years:

The spirit of the idea is essentially allowing people to be major without meeting the requirements of being a major faction. It's an idea that'll create more work for site staff and more bloat on the map.

I get it though, as we have similar discussions every year about the map game. Folks want to have their concepts and stories enshrined on the map. Folks want to have the protections that a fun color on the map provides, such as "my story is canon see?" Or at a basic level folks want to see their community recognized for the awesome stories they're writing.

And right now, the requirements are as easy and straightforward as ever. You can do this. Might take a round or two, but any group of five can pull off going major. Trust me, I've done it too many times.

Sincerely, crackhead.

Oh absolutely, it would 100% create more work for the mods and admins. I understand people do this in their free time, are doing it FOR FREE, and have busy lives outside of Chaos. For that, they have my gratitude and respect, and I understand it's a bit of a selfish request.

That being said, at least for me, I would argue that the requirements are not entirely straightforward.

I'll break it down for the MIR.

Do I have at least five players? According to my faction page, I have 20, including myself of course and my alts. But I'll check that box.
Would I accept the MFO code of conduct? Absolutely, I'd sign it in a heartbeat if given the chance to go major. Check that box, that's two.
Do I have 30 days of activity? Now that's a bit unclear, because I'm not sure what that constitutes. I've been on Chaos for a little over a year now, and I'm usually on every day or every other day. My last thread that I launched has 42 responses in a little under a month, from June 10th to July 9th, and another thread that I didn't write but has my faction directly involved has 49 posts in even less time. So...check?

By those metrics, I should be good to go for major if I wanted to, yet I feel like if I did apply my application would be rejected, hence why I'm pushing this idea. Could I be missing something? Absolutely, I'll be the first to admit it. Can I be dense sometimes? You don't know the half of it. Am I maybe fundementally misunderstanding how this whole thing works? Sure I could!

That's just the way I'm viewing it, which, I'll also admit, could be very biased toward my situation. Regardless, I understand the points you're making, and maybe its me, maybe I'm wrong here!

 

[Ra'a'mah]

I've considered taking my minor major a time or ten (okay, not that many, but it's a nice thought). But running and keeping a major...major is a lot of work and stress. Your idea is a nice one, but as Metus said, I don't see a reason to cause more stress on the forum admins. I haven't had the joy he speaks of, but I've been around a bit and approve of the concept on paper. Getting it into reality though, I don't see working.

 

[Admiral Burtch]

Do I have at least five players? According to my faction page, I have 20, including myself of course and my alts. But I'll check that box.

I’ll tackle this one before someone gets a little antsy.

In this case, the count only applies to individual writers, not their alts. For example, I can have 3 alts in your faction, but I only count as one writer.

 

[Mia Monroe]

Ok, Iet me try and be a little nicer this time and actually help you out if I can.

First of all - 5 Unique writers. not characters, writers and that is a minimum. you can have as many alts as you like, you are still only one writer.

Secondly, your activity. To give you a reference, in the last 30days the ME has launched 5 faction threads, I'm not going to go and find post counts, most are at a minimum of 3 pages, off the top of my head. Some are smaller. When activity checks are run, admins looks at the average activity across the board and use that as their marker, if you cannot meet that average you won't survive.

As Valiens stated in the Major Faction denial - your activity is not strong enough.

If I was to give you any advice it would be this, you don't just need a minimum of 5 writers, you need a minimum of 5 consistent writers, people who are always guaranteed to show up in a faction thread. In an ideal world, you want 10, that way you always have a back up if someone can't be around for whatever RL reason is coming at them. These writers are your core base. As for your threads, you want to be a launching them every 1-1.5 weeks, especially in the early days.

If you need more writers, advertise. Advertise on discord, advertise in blogs. Get all up in peoples faces and make sure that everyone knows exactly what the Farworlds Alliance is about.

Then there's the code of conduct, you don't see it until you're approved so in the interim, the site rules need to be your gospel. How you conduct yourself as a faction owner and how your staff conduct themselves is incredibly important. If you have people not following staff rules on your faction staff, that will absolutely count against you.

The requirements for major are just the base level, there is more to it. I do hope you can get Farworlds off the ground, lord knows we need more players on the map rn, but changing the site rules is not going to help you get there. As I said before, you need to reflect and look internally for your solution, rather than externally.

Ronhar Tane

 

[Ronhar Tane]

Ok, Iet me try and be a little nicer this time and actually help you out if I can.

First of all - 5 Unique writers. not characters, writers and that is a minimum. you can have as many alts as you like, you are still only one writer.

Secondly, your activity. To give you a reference, in the last 30days the ME has launched 5 faction threads, I'm not going to go and find post counts, most are at a minimum of 3 pages, off the top of my head. Some are smaller. When activity checks are run, admins looks at the average activity across the board and use that as their marker, if you cannot meet that average you won't survive.

As Valiens stated in the Major Faction denial - your activity is not strong enough.

If I was to give you any advice it would be this, you don't just need a minimum of 5 writers, you need a minimum of 5 consistent writers, people who are always guaranteed to show up in a faction thread. In an ideal world, you want 10, that way you always have a back up if someone can't be around for whatever RL reason is coming at them. These writers are your core base. As for your threads, you want to be a launching them every 1-1.5 weeks, especially in the early days.

If you need more writers, advertise. Advertise on discord, advertise in blogs. Get all up in peoples faces and make sure that everyone knows exactly what the Farworlds Alliance is about.

Then there's the code of conduct, you don't see it until you're approved so in the interim, the site rules need to be your gospel. How you conduct yourself as a faction owner and how your staff conduct themselves is incredibly important. If you have people not following staff rules on your faction staff, that will absolutely count against you.

The requirements for major are just the base level, there is more to it. I do hope you can get Farworlds off the ground, lord knows we need more players on the map rn, but changing the site rules is not going to help you get there. As I said before, you need to reflect and look internally for your solution, rather than externally.

Ronhar Tane

Thanks! It’s good advice! I’m not actually part of Farworlds though, but it’s applicable to me for sure!

 

[CountDookuEnjoyer]

Solid idea.

 

[Judah Lesan]

So I’m prolly not adding anything that hasn’t been said, but here I go.

This reads a lot like let minors have planets on the map, but let’s call them something else.

Also the attempt you reference was given some solid feedback. It wasn’t a no… it was a you’re on a solid path forward, just need to see more.

In between options muddy the waters and if anything Chaos is known for being as simple as possible wherever possible. The faction system needs to be that and remain that to work.

Just some thoughts.

 

[A Phoenix]

I will say I am in favor of this in some manner. That said hearing more about the “activity calculus” from Mia Monroe makes sense and I am not sure that it doesn’t boil down to what Judah Lesan just said in letting minors control a portion of the map. I am honestly in favor of this but I don’t have to then manage expectations and complaints of 50 three hex factions. I am in favor, but don’t know how to make it feasible, so I digress.

I will also say that the “activity is easy” and “just advertise your faction” come from many year veterans of Chaos who that is very true for. It isn’t that easy. Especially if you aren’t pitching Mandos, Jedi or Sith. I am not necessarily saying it should be easy. But hearing those sentiments is very disheartening for me being part of several factions who did not meet these “easy” requirements.

I have no idea what the circumstances of the Farworlds application was. And they may have gotten good feedback. I do know that before this thread I would have had no clue what 30 day of activity meant.

I think that a major should be able to influence the whole map. And in the case I know that factions I have been involved with in the past definitely do not meet that threshold. I participated briefly in major faction staff and it was a lot. I can’t imagine what site staff go through. So while I don’t know how to make it work, I still think something should be done to enable more regional map game play. In a perfect world.

 

[Aether Verd]

Ronhar Tane - To me, "Do you have thirty days of activity" = "have you and your minor been consistently posting for a month at a cadence similar to a major faction?"

My anecdotal considerations that might help you are:

• Can you and your four friends make 60 - 80 posts in a month?
• Can you do it without being propped up by another community?
• Can you do it without one person spamming alts to make a thread look more active than it is?

If you can answer yes to all three of those, and have the posts to back it up, I'd say the "30 days of activity" box is checked. If you can't? Get to posting my friend!

 

[Srina Talon]

I can start a private thread right now on Jutrand and say that it's an ice planet devoid of life.

WTF Taiia I thought you loved me