Why Cloudbreaking Rules Are Horrible And Need To Go

[Agatha Nestor]

[member="Alexander Nester"]
I've got every planet in OP's territory listed with their noteworthy traits.

Noice. You are now number one of my list of "People who I wish to wage a war against."

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

A friendly reminder for everyone to play nice in this thread.

Keep any personal grievances to PM, please.

 

[Caulder Dune]

I say we just amend the rule so that more than one invasion is required in order for cloud breaking to take effect. No one shot "95% of your faction is now gone m8" invasions.

 

[Danger Arceneau]

The map is a big game of Risk -- that was what it was intended to be. A warring map for factions to have conflict with and feel that they are going to actually tangibly lose things.

Thus, it is full of risks.

If you don't want to play the war game, why go major to begin with?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Danger Arceneau"]


Seeking a place on the map...heavy risks...but the priiize. There is lots of danger involved!


Going major and staking a claim on the map is the equivalent to painting a big, fat target on your back and inviting others to walk over and try to club you. If you're not ready to risk being wiped out, don't go major.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

I can't take over America by invading Pennsylvania and just 'cutting off' the rest of the country. But the argument that "you knew the risks" is laughable at best considering this rule came into effect long after most of these factions were established. It was designed to punish people for tendrils, not punish them for wanting to go major.

Everyone knows the risks. It becomes a matter of where you draw the line.

 

[Cira]

I can't take over America by invading Pennsylvania and just 'cutting off' the rest of the country. But the argument that "you knew the risks" is laughable at best considering this rule came into effect long after most of these factions were established. It was designed to punish people for tendrils, not punish them for wanting to go major.

No, I did not mean cloudbreaking being the risk.

I meant that being major to begin with is the risk. *beats* Getting on the Map and painting that swath of color on it is a statement that you are ready and willing to risk being invaded.

Doesn't matter if it is cloudbreaking or not, regardless the risk of losing territory is there via invasions.

Cloudbreaking just amps up the level of the risk involved.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

I am heavily restraining the urge to...make non-family-friendly comments about tendrils.


I blame [member="Valiens Nantaris"].


But seriously what [member="Cira"] said.

 

[Arrbi Betna]

I agree with [member="Ayden Cater"] that cloudbreaking shouldn't be so punishing for factions. That said, there are going to be cases where cloudbreaking will happen. Those are with tendrils as [member="Sarge Potteiger"] mentioned, but those can be taken on a case by case basis. Personally, I greatly dislike the cloudbreaking rules and have been on both sides of them. They hurt and harm more than they help promote activity. They bring out the competitive writers who play to win and force other writers to either "go with the flow" for story or whatnot and eventually lose or to play the same level of hardball to just stay afloat and hold.

 

[EmKay]

Pardon me if I'm beating a dead horse as far as the thread is concerned, but I only skimmed.

I would, personally, fly off the handle if 95% of a faction, ANY faction, mine or not, was suddenly just gone. I'd start digging into that and wonder what the feth just happened. I think there should be one of two possible "fixes":

1. State a clear rule that you can't break Wheaton's Law and annihilate a faction in one fell swoop (by the way, I call for a vote of zero confidence in Omega Protectorate's moral fibre in all members but Ayden, who actually talks to people), or

2. Have a rule that if an invasion has a >50% loss to its territory, the capital city is moved to the larger chunk.

While I reserve a degree of trust in Tef & Friends, it reduces whining and drama to have things stated clearly.


Also, agreeing with what Sarge said, there's having a way to sever Cthulhu-like limbs off a faction and then there's just playing like a k'wat. While I agree that going major paints a massive target on your forehead that says "SHOOT ME NOW! I-if.. if you want t-to... that i-is...", it shouldn't mean every enemy you has decides to take the easiest way to utterly destroy you.

Remember, for those who have a tendency to stray off-topic: This is about ripping apart factions in one. Thread. Not about whether or not going Major is a good idea or not, or how "Oh well it's their fault if they get buttblasted -- They took the risk to go major!!"

 

[EmKay]

They bring out the competitive writers who play to win and force other writers to either "go with the flow" for story or whatnot and eventually lose or to play the same level of hardball to just stay afloat and hold.

This. This is why I hate invasions. There's barely any story, except for a few people here and there driving their own little car amongst the chaos (see: In Druckenwell, my character took a new take on life. In Naboo, he "died" and is undergoing another massive life change). People don't write invasions for the story, the honour and glory of war, etc. We're not playing it in a romanticised scene where everything is detailed out and it's a marvel to read and enjoyable. I would love invasions if that were the case.

Invasions are about one-upping the other guy. However possible. That's it. "Oh look, a Jedi Master is wiping out my army. Let's send two of our guys to stop him" or "I've got this rerally cool bug gun that's worth a thousand of your little guns", or pulling sleight-of-hand on entrances and such things to suddenly give the opponents and edge. I don't like it. I don't like the Play to Win ambiance. It's stressful, and I don't enjoy it. At all. That's why I'm only involved with my faction on an OOC/Development level, and my character runs freelance and helps out with the ASA in Dominions and, if paid enough, invasions. I don't like it. I don't want to be required to do it. If I'm never involved in another invasion I'll be happy.

</rant>


Side note: I had... uh... well, I made the invasions that I've been in interesting at least. Except Vergesso, the guy I was going to fight bailed on me. Jorus was fun to fight in Naboo, though, and in Druckenwell I had the opportunity to either harden my character or give him PTSD. I did a bit of both. It all worked out on my end, but I'm voicing my frustrations and observations.

And now I went off-topic. Kark.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

All I'm hearing, [member="Cira"], is "I can't voice my thoughts properly."

Considering I'm terrible at debate this doesn't bode well for you.

 

[Cira]

Either way -- not one faction has even lost major territory with this cloudbreaking rule

The only one? ASA with OP?

Why? Because they already originally agreed that OP was going to win that invasion anyways.

So I am very confused why this is such a big issue when a one thread invasion has not cut off the bulk of a territory as of yet.

Fringe attempted it with OP when they went to fight Eriadu, the idea of cloudbreaking was still okay there. (It would have cut 1/3 of the territory in one thread) In fact, both sides of it looked forward to this!


Take the One Sith -- to do a cloud breaking? They have already done Coruscant, Teta, and Alderaan. Three invasions so far, not one. They can attempt to continue the plan by going for more that will provoke a cloudbreaking.

But ultimately? This really can just follow the rules of the Faction Deterioration Rules

None the less, this is word for word the current rules per the staff announcement of [ New Rule: Cloud Breaking]. Which could also be used to answer alot of these questions.

6. If a Major Faction's Influence Cloud is completely severed into two or more smaller clouds by an Invasion or any other method, the Major Faction loses the cloud(s) furthest away from it's Capital Planet and only retains the cloud it's Capital Planet resides in.

 

[Cira]

All I'm hearing, [member="Cira"], is "I can't voice my thoughts properly."

Considering I'm terrible at debate this doesn't bode well for you.

I dunno, Siobhan heard me loud and clear.

Quit thinking of Cira and maybe you'll be just fine and dandy at understanding Illeh.

 

[EmKay]

Take the One Sith -- to do a cloud breaking? They have already done Coruscant, Teta, and Alderaan. Three invasions so far, not one. They can attempt to continue the plan by going for more that will provoke a cloudbreaking.

Allow me to be blunt, but you abstractly just contradicted yourself. In one breath you say "Cloudbreaking rules are fine, people should live with the loss" while the conversation is saying "Don't kill factions in one invasion", and now you're saying "But the One Sith are cloud breaking! Over multiple threads!"

>Over multiple threads
>Multiple threads
>Threads

That's the point. If you kill a large chunk of a faction over several threads then fine! Take it! You worked for it! Don't just kill 95% of a faction in one. Thread.

 

[EmKay]

In fact, both sides of it looked forward to this!

This is another thing. If it's consensual among both parties, then again. Fine! Take it! We'll all have fun! The second point Ayden brought up was being blind-sided by it. To hop out for a weekend, come back, and suddenly "Oh look MOST OF MY FACTION IS DEAD."

 

[Cira]

Allow me to be blunt, but you abstractly just contradicted yourself. In one breath you say "Cloudbreaking rules are fine, people should live with the loss" while the conversation is saying "Don't kill factions in one invasion", and now you're saying "But the One Sith are cloud breaking! Over multiple threads!"

>Over multiple threads
>Multiple threads
>Threads

That's the point. If you kill a large chunk of a faction over several threads then fine! Take it! You worked for it! Don't just kill 95% of a faction in one. Thread.

Nah, I was just giving examples. I never said don't do a cloud breaking in one thread. I was stating exactly what had been going on with previous invasions and the current ones since this came into effect.

I was giving options and linking threads to staff announcements and the current rules.

Really, we have factions who agreed to losses of cloudbreaking OOCly already via one thread ( AKA OP and ASA, along with OP and LotF )

And we have factions that are going about it in many threads. ( AKA One Sith)

Just showing you what the layout of things are.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Cira"], [member="Sarge Potteiger"]


What you mean is: Quit thinking of Cira and remember that we're all Illie alts.

 

[Cira]

[member="Cira"], [member="Sarge Potteiger"]


What you mean is: Quit thinking of Cira and remember that we're all Illie alts.

 

[EmKay]

[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]

I reject your rea|ity and substitute my own. We're a|| Jon's a|ts.

Really, we have factions who agreed to losses of cloudbreaking OOCly already via one thread ( AKA OP and ASA, along with OP and LotF )

See:

If it's consensual among both parties, then again. Fine! Take it! We'll all have fun! The second point Ayden brought up was being blind-sided by it. To hop out for a weekend, come back, and suddenly "Oh look MOST OF MY FACTION IS DEAD."