Why Cloudbreaking Rules Are Horrible And Need To Go

[Cira]

This is another thing. If it's consensual among both parties, then again. Fine! Take it! We'll all have fun! The second point Ayden brought up was being blind-sided by it. To hop out for a weekend, come back, and suddenly "Oh look MOST OF MY FACTION IS DEAD."

Alright, I'll put it pretty bluntly.

There is no way ( Unless you are the sith empire and decided to disband haha. Or really a faction that decides to lose their major status is part of this.) that you are gonna come back over the weekend and see 95% of the faction gone.

lol.

That is ridiculous. The bulk of invasions take -at least- three weeks to complete just in writing. And that's just the thread.

You have one week of behind the scenes because it is mandated that faction owners talk to each other to discuss rules.

Then you have the actual invasion in it self, and then depending on things, it may even take another week before the call is made on who wins that invasion.

For approx a timeframe of at least a month.

Really, the chances of a successful cloudbreak are very, very, low.

The only way this can happen -over a weekend- is if the major faction you are invading doesn't even post the required 5 unique writers to defend that faction within 72 hours ( Which was done to the Sith Empire might I add.)

And even then, one would think that the Faction Owner would tell their faction members.. oh hey.... invasion incoming, let's plan a defense -- because they have to be notified with terms already to begin with.

 

[EmKay]

Druckenwell was over in four or five days.

What if it was Krant?


[member="Cira"]

 

[Not Ordo]

OHHHH MY GAWD

I LOVE CLAM CHOWDER!

 

[Cira]

Druckenwell was over in four or five days.



[member="Cira"]

It wasn't four days. We had to wait on Nick to get back which was more than an entire week. And up until it is "officially" called, anything can happen in terms of turning the tide. One doesn't simply quit. You continue on until it is officially called.

Much like the Eriadu invasion, where a single act of countering fleets managed to win the invasion in the end when LotF had the upper hand to begin with for the length of the invasion.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Cira"], [member="Rhoujen"]


Well...I daresay the Druckenwell invasion being so short was helped by the fact that the CIS decided to raze their own planet. It's a bit difficult to have a battle over it then!

 

[EmKay]

We had to wait on Nick to get back which was more than an entire week.

Considering the whole world, to my knowledge, had basically been blockaded, the place was being bombarded, the shipyard was coming down, and the CIS fleet was in its dying throes, I'd call that ICly over/lost.

 

[Cira]

Either way -- on the Subject of Cloudbreaking.

So for people in here who don't like the cloud breaking rules -- okay fine.

But what are the solutions? What can be tangibly changed or updated? Make it nice and neat and something that can be read coherently.

How would it look like if it were part of the rules?​

The only way to actually do something about this is to offer up something in turn: IE write an official draft up on what your proposal is for the following:


A. A revision of the current cloudbreaking rules.

OR

B. Offer a different solution in lieu of cloudbreaking rules


Here are resources:

The staff announcement of [ New Rule: Cloud Breaking]. Which could also be used to answer alot of these questions.

Current Invasion Rules

6. If a Major Faction's Influence Cloud is completely severed into two or more smaller clouds by an Invasion or any other method, the Major Faction loses the cloud(s) furthest away from it's Capital Planet and only retains the cloud it's Capital Planet resides in.

 

[EmKay]

[member="Cira"]
I'd do so, but the exact wording escapes me on how one would go about writing such revisions. I'll just go write go back to avoiding the topic of invasions and major factions.

 

[Agatha Nestor]

[member="Cira"]

6. If a Major Faction's Influence Cloud is completely severed into two or more smaller clouds by an Invasion, the encircled territory which is cut off from the Factions capital will slowly defect to nearby factions at a rate of one planet per two weeks, until the encirclement is broken or a new supply route is established, be it through conquest of neutral planets or military access from other factions.

How's that.

 

[Cira]

[member="Cira"]

6. If a Major Faction's Influence Cloud is completely severed into two or more smaller clouds by an Invasion, the encircled territory which is cut off from the Factions capital will slowly defect to nearby factions at a rate of one planet per two weeks, until the encirclement is broken or a new supply route is established, be it through conquest of neutral planets or military access from other factions.

How's that.

Can you elaborate on why the planets would defect to other factions? Normally, due to cloudbreaking, they just revert to a neutral stance, belonging to no one. Are you suggesting that these other major factions would get free planets? Ehh... that might be an issue.

Also, military access from other factions doesn't mean that the territory is still yours. In fact, if that area were to go neutral, it opens up for other factions near there to try and dominion them for their own influence cloud. Conquest of another faction is still invasions -- not dominions. A dominion is only applicable for a neutral planet under no influence cloud.

 

[Agatha Nestor]

They would defect due to being cut off from the supply lines of the faction, as such providing resource issues for planets that are not entirely self-sufficient. This, coupled with long sieges of planets will destroy it's local production of both food and weaponry, forcing them to eventually surrender. Gonna elaborate moer later

 

[Captain Larraq]

Option A- The faction has 1 week to do a 100 post development thread to establish a new capital planet on the 'larger' side of their former territory.

Option B- If the severed section of influence cloud contains more than 20 worlds, the severed section of influence cloud is subject to the rules for failing a major faction check-in every month until or unless a suitable dominion or re-invasion is successfully completed to reestablish a link between the capital planet and the appropriate section of influence cloud.

Option C- Same as B, but also include the option of moving the capital. The 'other' side of the severed influence cloud would then be subject to Option B's ruling if it contains more than 20 worlds.

Option D- Further game-ify the Major Faction Warfare rules with trade and logistics routes, maximum ground/naval forces, and penalties for losing a fight.

Option E- People can shut it and stop bandwaggoning to change rules that help screw one faction or another and completely different rules that prevent the same from effecting another faction. (not directed a you Ayden)

Option F- Require RPJ approval as to which planet can be invaded to prevent Faction A from going out of its way to screw over Faction B and to prevent either side from 'playing to win'.

Option G- Any Faction that is ruled by an RPJ to be 'playing to win' automatically forfeits the invasion and is penalized 10 yards- I mean percent of influence cloud.

 

[Danger Arceneau]

[member="Captain Larraq"]

Thanks for giving options!


See, this provides something tangible for the staff to review.


Although I really don't get the "playing to win" deal. That is what invasions ultimately are -- to win, so you can win the planet in the war game. Either "Win" to defend or "Win" to conquer.

Skirmishes on the other hand, do not have that default mentality.

 

[Gilamar Skirata]

Option B- If the severed section of influence cloud contains more than 20 worlds, the severed section of influence cloud is subject to the rules for failing a major faction check-in every month until or unless a suitable dominion or re-invasion is successfully completed to reestablish a link between the capital planet and the appropriate section of influence cloud.

I actually like this a lot.

 

[EmKay]

Although I really don't get the "playing to win" deal. That is what invasions ultimately are -- to win, so you can win the planet in the war game. Either "Win" to defend or "Win" to conquer. Skirmishes on the other hand, do not have that default mentality.

Typical invasion mentality: KILL THE OPPOISITON! FIGHT! WIN! WAAAAGH!!!

Typical Skirmish mentality: KILL THE OPPOSITION! FIGHT! WIN! WAAAAGH!!!

The difference: Whether or not you win the planet afterward.

I have a fever, and the only solution, is more story.

 

[Preliat Mantis]

I like it because it encourages conflict, encourages people to be strategic and the gravity of invasions weigh heavily.

 

[Captain Larraq]

Although I really don't get the "playing to win" deal. That is what invasions ultimately are -- to win, so you can win the planet in the war game. Either "Win" to defend or "Win" to conquer.

It's the difference between trying to win and being a dick.

 

[Ayden Cater]

It's the difference between trying to win and being a dick.

^ This.

People can accept the nature of losing one or two planets from a single invasion. That's the nature of the beast, of trying to project yourself as a major power in the galaxy. None dispute this.

But to lose almost everything like that, from a single invasion.... That's a faction killer. That's not kosher.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

I dont understand whats happening at all. Too many big words in trying to explain this

 

[Captain Larraq]

I dont understand whats happening at all. Too many big words in trying to explain this

Butthurt.

People suddenly don't want to be wiped out.

Others want to wipe them out.

Ayden is worried about OOC Butthurt and poor sportsmanship IC, as well as believing that the current rules promote metagaming (in regard to choosing which planet to invade) and are unrealistic to the IC story of major factions and the territory they control.