Question Should we close the Factory/Codex

[Nekana Quane]

And could we make planets if they aren’t added to the map? Or is it only for weapons etc?

Adding custom planets to the map has always been optional. So you can already do that - I don't see why this would change if we had a wiki.

 

[AMCO]

Would there be any rules on subs being finished/editing in things later at whim (thinking of instances with pvp, someone editing a weapon/tech they are using mid-fight to try and gain the upper hand in a fight they are losing)? Or just, full wild west?

That's not much of a concern, in my opinion.

There is no tangible benefit to changing submissions mid-fight on Chaos - actually hurting the opponent relies on goodwill, with the ruleset we have, and nothing burns goodwill faster than OOC trickery. It's also likely to make you a bit unpopular, to put it mildly.

... plus how many people actually read their opponent's tech subs thoroughly at the start of the fight, let alone several times during the fight?

That said, the lack of consistency can be an issue outside PvP. Weapons/ships/locations/etc. could change quite suddenly, in a system like that, but that can happen in the current system as well. All it takes is an extra step - either a submod request or an archival request.

 

[Aelin Erevos]

It was definitely more of an worst case scenario/extreme example, I don't think most people on Chaos would do that, but there will always be those select few that try and take advantage of unregulated systems, and damn the consequences.

But after reading yours and a few others responses, I do agree that my initial concern with it was unwarranted.

And yeah, lack of consistency could potentially be a thing outside of PVP. Thinking more with things that are canon/pulled from the wookie and edited by players. I.e. planets/established lore, etc. But, I think if something is absurdly outlandish or extreme, it's likely going to be ignored and/or reported by others. So, also probably a non-issue.

 

[Aurelian Sigismund]

From my experience a wiki format can be quite messy. It requires people to put tags in and use proper linking to other articles, back and forth. And generally people are kinda lazy and it doesn't happen.

Could creating new articles be 'forced' to put in a minimum of tags? Like 'starship', 'walker', 'fortress'? Would such a thing be possible?

Here, with the forums and sub-forums, you can go discover the stuff you don't know about and still find it. Probably a matter of habit as well.

Overall I believe in a trial to see and test with an approach of both worlds.

 

[Hailyn]

I kind of think I would need to see it "working" so-to-speak to really have an idea on whether or not I'd want to replace the factory/codex with an in-house wiki. I do like the idea of replacing the factory/codex with an in-house wiki, but how would it "look"? More or less like a wikified factory/codex entry for each article, or what? If it would, then, yeah, I think that considering we don't actually need any real approval anymore (compared to the old-school approval process where a judge would essentially pick apart a sub and get it as close to a "standard" as a submitter was willing while submitters tried to get a sub as ambitious as a judge was willing to let through) it really wouldn't be a big difference from what there is currently.

I assume there'd likely be a way for articles that contain stuff like superweapons/SSDs/etc to get flagged for review by an admin/rpj/whatever?

 

[Kitter Bitters]

Adding custom planets to the map has always been optional. So you can already do that - I don't see why this would change if we had a wiki.

From what it sounds like the Wiki would be open without approving submissions. That’s why I wondered about planets and the map. Unless I read it wrong?

 

[Iris Arani]

Not every planet is added to the map. Even cannon ones can end up not being added. There's a different submission place for planets anyway (the map update thread) so I don't see how the wiki would be any different.

 

[Breha Sal-Soren]

And double down on a proper wiki and just let people go ham?

I remember a Wiki project from back in the day and I'd say - heck yeah, let's do it!

Factory and Codex are great, don't get me wrong, but anyone can pretty much write or create anything and the Factory/Codex aren't required. Maybe a Wiki with some type of checks and balances through the RPJs/Judges comes into play?

 

[Tefka]

remember a Wiki project from back in the day and I'd say - heck yeah, let's do it!

Yeah it went nowhere and was Dead On Arrival.

 

[Breha Sal-Soren]

Worth a shot to try again.

 

[Roth Likonis]

Hello all,

I don't really contribute to the public/community side of this site. Not really my thing.

But, in this area, I may be able to offer some humble guidance. As a Wookiepedia contributor, former low-level Wookiepedia Mod, and with several thousand edits and page additions to Wookiepedia (I've seen some of you using my Turadium, Songsteel, and other material and tech entries over the years), I might be able to offer some do's and dont's if you choose to go forward with this as a site.

1) Security concerns.
Some of you were concerned about your wiki being potentially wiped out. While that was a major issue when wikis first launched, most wikis now incorporate a history system that makes it easy to reverse most changes - a top level admin theoretically has the ability to recover the entire site, provided they weren't the one who goes ham and deletes everything. You can even deploy wikibots to make curating and article reversal decisions pretty easy and automated.

2) Absolute must - Manual of Style
Most people don't realize it, but Wookiepedia has an extensive manual of style. We try not to use contractions, we use past tense, and depending on the subject there's a proper format to writing an article. If you make a wiki, implement a basic manual of style that needs to be adhered to; you really run the risk of your wiki looking like a mix-mash of randomness otherwise, which is a good way to motivate disinterest and disuse.

3) Promote cross-integration
A lot of people have their main site, and then they have their wiki. That really splits traffic between two sources and weakens traffic (Imagine, the ones who really love factory and codex work spend all their time on the wiki, not on Chaos). While that isn't guaranteed to happen here, it did happen on SW Combine due to the game nature of their site. Try to implement cross-integration. Advertise Chaos on your wiki, such as nominated players, play of the month, events, etc. On Chaos, nominate feature articles, writers on the wiki, etc. Try really hard to make it a cohesive and symbiotic thing, in otherwords, not two separate entities.


That's all! Fading back into the aether now.

- Roth

 

[Grand Shepherd Burtch]

Shrugs

I dunno. Speaking entirely selfishly, I don’t really think I care what format the asset-building side of this game takes as long as it fulfills certain needs that players have:

1. Quality of input — I think lots of people like myself like to put their own style of quality into their creations. As long as style and attention to detail can be expressed to the same level as the old factory/codex system, I think that people would probably enjoy it just as much.
2. Perception of Possession — maybe this is thinking too much like a video game, but myself, and probably many other players likely enjoy the prospect of building/acquiring unique items that have a sense of exclusivity. It creates a sense of progression and growth for the characters and if the wiki entries can preserve that production rating/affiliation system in much the same way that the old factory/codex system could, I think it would be a big hit.
3. Gifting and Altruism — expanding on point number 2, the ability to build something for another player (or group of players) is a very positive interaction dynamic that I’ve experienced in this community. The ability to promote and prop up each other’s work is also extremely rewarding, which further incentivizes interactions. Again, as long as that dynamic is preserved, the format doesn’t matter.

I guess that’s all I can think of for now. Whether it’s a factory/codex format, a Wiki, or Tefka is mailing out handwritten encyclopedias out to the players’ homes “it is a poor craftsman that blames his/her tools for the quality of their creations.”

 

[Tefka]

Hello all,

I don't really contribute to the public/community side of this site. Not really my thing.

But, in this area, I may be able to offer some humble guidance. As a Wookiepedia contributor, former low-level Wookiepedia Mod, and with several thousand edits and page additions to Wookiepedia (I've seen some of you using my Turadium, Songsteel, and other material and tech entries over the years), I might be able to offer some do's and dont's if you choose to go forward with this as a site.

1) Security concerns.
Some of you were concerned about your wiki being potentially wiped out. While that was a major issue when wikis first launched, most wikis now incorporate a history system that makes it easy to reverse most changes - a top level admin theoretically has the ability to recover the entire site, provided they weren't the one who goes ham and deletes everything. You can even deploy wikibots to make curating and article reversal decisions pretty easy and automated.

2) Absolute must - Manual of Style
Most people don't realize it, but Wookiepedia has an extensive manual of style. We try not to use contractions, we use past tense, and depending on the subject there's a proper format to writing an article. If you make a wiki, implement a basic manual of style that needs to be adhered to; you really run the risk of your wiki looking like a mix-mash of randomness otherwise, which is a good way to motivate disinterest and disuse.

3) Promote cross-integration
A lot of people have their main site, and then they have their wiki. That really splits traffic between two sources and weakens traffic (Imagine, the ones who really love factory and codex work spend all their time on the wiki, not on Chaos). While that isn't guaranteed to happen here, it did happen on SW Combine due to the game nature of their site. Try to implement cross-integration. Advertise Chaos on your wiki, such as nominated players, play of the month, events, etc. On Chaos, nominate feature articles, writers on the wiki, etc. Try really hard to make it a cohesive and symbiotic thing, in otherwords, not two separate entities.


That's all! Fading back into the aether now.

- Roth

I agree with pretty much everything except implementing a manual of style. I agree it works for wikipedia, for fandom, and pretty much everywhere else that demands an elevated style of writing.

My bar is so much lower lmfao. I sacrifice "bar of expectation" for ease of use and ease of moderation, and to prevent all those high level corrupted power gamers you guys literally always turn into. Basically, for Chaos to survive we need to attract more people, to attract more people we can't be snobby.

There's arguments for "high quality does attract more people" 100% but like, I only got one dawg in me and she lazy you feel

 

[Roth Likonis]

I only got one dawg in me and she lazy you feel

I feel, yo.

There's a reason I left the mod community - it's a never-ending and thankless job supervising what amounts to a horde of cats in a shoebox high on cocaine.

 

[Grand Shepherd Burtch]

There's arguments for "high quality does attract more people" 100% but like, I only got one dawg in me and she lazy you feel

Well I’m probably echoing what most people think, but I’ll say it anyways. The appealing thing about the current codex/factory system is that it is flexible enough to encourage whatever level of design commitment a player wishes to exercise for their playing style. This, while making it rewarding no matter how much one chooses to put into it. As long as the new wiki system allows for that level of flexibility, it’s likely to be every bit as popular as the current system.

 

[Tefka]

thankless job

/me stares out window into rain

 

[Hailyn]

/me stares out window into rain

thank you for monthly shitposts feedback threads

on a more serious note, if there's some semblance of structure (maybe a basic template a la submission templates we have rn in factory/codex as suggestion/guidelines for article formats?) I think I could get behind replacing stuff with a wiki.

 

[Tefka]

How dare you accuse me of shitposting I would never