Faction Moral Ethics & Diplomacy 101 [New Jedi Order]

[Zoar]

Zoar was starting to understand the class.

Caedyn Arenais 's scenario had evoked sure responses from Gabriel Pryce and Iris Arani , but Zoar was less sure about his own. He let it sit in his mind for a moment longer, before making it known to the room, speaking up for the first time in the lesson.

//I think it's a slippery slope for a Jedi to value their own life over others. Once You've put yourself on that pedestal, the lives around you might seem... less significant. At that point, does one stop being a Jedi? Because Jedi protect life.// He nodded to Iris. //Jedi protect people.// He nodded to Gabriel.

//But... at the same time, we can't forget the bigger picture. If I had to choose between saving ten people, or saving one person that would go on to save a hundred... I don't know if I could save the ten, in good conscience.//

 

[Starlin Rand]

Oh feth, now they were getting into the thick of things. Starlin stroked his beard, listening as some of the students gave their input before he took the opportunity to speak.

“About that ship analogy… is there absolutely no chance whatsoever that I could, with the help of a skilled pilot, the Force, and a little luck, save everyone on both vessels?”

There was a hint of humor in his tone despite the serious nature of the discussion. The majority of ethical dilemmas were situations that were extremely unlikely to happen in real life, mainly because there were so many variables to consider. He knew it was meant as a thought exercise, but some part of him was stubborn and refused to accept anything as a no-win scenario so easily.

That, and he simply liked to mess with people.

The Man in White Corin Trenor Silas Westgard Caedyn Arenais Gabriel Pryce Zoar Valery Noble Caltin Vanagor Iris Arani Nameless One Jasper Kai'el​

 

[Nameless One]

She listened to Starlin Rand and gave a small chuckle to his question but hearing the others. "So quick to sacrifice... noble but if you fall what happens to the one you sve. Do you have a guarantee that they will survive?" SHe said it and turned her head. "Saving people, protecting life is good but if you sacrificing yourself will put others in danger and kill more of them it would be a waste. Mourn the life lost but protect the most you can and make sure they are safe before you move on." She said it but looked back at Caedyn Arenais and shrugged. "I am curious if there is a way with a fadter ship, the latest models of jedi vessels have enough engineering in them to channel the force into their weapons."

 

[Silas Westgard]

<This is the Jedi Master Valery brought in. And she's here in the lesson, watching. And you're going to sleep.>

<<"I'm sorry... I haven't slept properly for weeks">> he admitted as he drifted deeper into his slumber. Silas didn't want to do this, but he needed this desperately. Right now, Silas didn't care if Master Valery was there or not, he was doing it to look after himself and bring back some much needed energy into his body.

Silas wished more than anything to be normal again, doubt was simply his worst enemy.

Iris Arani​

 

[Caedyn Arenais]

---

Curriculum: Philosophy, Ethics & Diplomacy.
Class Tutor: Caedyn Arenais.
Location: The Jedi Temple of Coruscant | Meditation Chamber.
Tags: Nameless One , Zoar , Jasper Kai'el , Gabriel Pryce , Corin Trenor , Iris Arani , Silas Westgard , Valery Noble , Caltin Vanagor , Starlin Rand .

---

"We can't just give up because it's hard and we might be defeated. That makes for a poor Jedi. When the going gets tough we look within!"

Caedyn listened intently, observing the reactions of his students. Gabriel Pryce 's response was one of conviction, and while his tutor had voiced the sentiment as it had been stated to him by another, he still wished for his students to consider the grim reality of their life's path, as well as the consequences for their choices.

"My father Veiere Arenais gave his life defending the people of Bimmisaari against the Sith Lord Darth Prazutis, so you can probably imagine that I've felt and held the very same thoughts at one point or another since then" Caedyn expressed, speaking with a tone of neutrality. His words were given calmly.

"The reason I gave the example was to inspire you all to think about the consequences of a Jedi giving their lives in battle. Some people make it out to be a glorious thing" Caedyn paused, looking about the room before giving his perspective. "The reality is quite the opposite. The things we face out in the field of duty, aren't going to be pulling any punches, and despite having the Force with us, Jedi are as killable as the next person if they let their guard down. So I want you all to keep this one in mind and think about it long and hard. Your lives are just as valuable as another. Arguably more so if you're going to be saving or protecting countless folk over the many years of your future career".

Looking to Gabriel Pryce, Caedyn gestured to the lad and spoke further; "At the end of the day we do all we can to save the innocent, but always your life should be a priority. This is my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree." Caedyn gave a firm nod to the Padawan, before looking to the wider group and a faint curl to the corner of his mouth, a slight smile, a desire to encourage them all to think for themselves; "You all need to make up your own minds about the things we discuss in this class, because one day when we older Jedi are dead and gone, the Order will look to you all to lead by example. You will all come to terms with what you believe, in your own time as you learn, grow and experience more and more along your path". Encouraging the Padawan to think for themselves and consider as many aspects of the Jedi Path was, after all, the point of the class.

//But... at the same time, we can't forget the bigger picture. If I had to choose between saving ten people, or saving one person that would go on to save a hundred... I don't know if I could save the ten, in good conscience.//

"And rarely do we have the time to stand there and think about it, when the real thing is occurring in the field" Caedyn pointed out in response to Zoar 's contribution, giving a smile of appreciation to the goliath's first time speaking openly to the class. His response hadn't been for or against the sentiment, but rather clearly proving to be considering both sides of the coin, so to speak.

“About that ship analogy… is there absolutely no chance whatsoever that I could, with the help of a skilled pilot, the Force, and a little luck, save everyone on both vessels?”

Caedyn Arenais chuckled under his breath in response to Starlin Rand ; The Nameless One soon asked something of a similar question. "It's an example for the sake of the discussion. Ideally, I hope none of us ever find ourselves in such a situation, but you raise a good point in that when we're out there, it always pays to be mindful of our options. There could be a way to save both vessels..." Caedyn smirked, and gave a half nod to the Jedi Knight, "Just not this time" he concluded.

Their teacher for the lesson would give the room some time to consider what he had said, hoping that they would take it all in and think on these things, regardless of whether they agreed or otherwise. It seemed a perfect time to continue driving the lesson forward, and so he looked to approach the next subject with the hope that someone might be able to recognize it for the following words he spoke.

"Guard society with justice.
Do not act selfishly or seek the pursuit of power.
Respect all life, in all forms as it is the lifeline of the Force.
Community before individuals, the greater good before the needs of the few.
Help those who cannot help themselves, and provide service to those in need.
Do not harm those who cannot harm you, and do not seek violence where there are alternatives.
Use the Force to serve the Force.
Above all else, is the will of the Force".

Caedyn looked to gauge the reactions of his students once more, soon prompting them for any volunteers. "I'm sure there's a few of you, at the very least, that will know what our next topic for discussion is. Any takers?".

 

[Corin Trenor]

His eyes rolled with a muted exhale. It was of no use to offer more of his harsh opinions, those that bordered if not delved over the line of bitter judgement on the Silver Jedi and those that call themselves a member of that Order. Just plain disruptive, Corin had come to accept, and of the mind there was no discussion to be had - both sides had their minds made, there was no room for movement here, only a veiled effort to convince the often impressionable of these weak-minded ideals. It irked him at the mention of their lives and the value prescribed to it, rather the notion of it possessing more than someone else's.

Reflexively, the Padawan's brow shot up and his throat found a lump that needed to be swallowed.

He muttered something inaudibly beneath his breath, his lips barely parting to make way for an undoubtedly offensive remark.

 

[Starlin Rand]

Caedyn was about to unleash a mystery topic. Oh, chit, Starlin thought. Is he gonna start talking about the Will of the Force?

His musing about how heated things might get in the classroom was interrupted by Corin, who muttered something offensive under his breath. Well, inaudible to everyone but the half-Balosar Starlin, whose antennapalps picked it up easily.

“What did you just say?” Starlin asked in a low voice, staring at Corin. “Did you just say what I think you just said?”

Corin Trenor​

 

[Corin Trenor]

His eyes briefly upturned to Starlin, and all Corin offered was a slight smirk.

Starlin Rand

 

[Iris Arani]

"No life is ever worth more than another. Those gifted with the Force are not simply more valuable because they help people. You're an ass if you think yourself more valuable."

Caedyn Arenais | Corin Trenor | @Others I'm lazy

 

[Caltin Vanagor]

"If everywhere you go there is a problem, guess what?" - Don Rickles​

Caltin remained quiet, listening to everyone in the room. Whether he personally agreed with them or not was of little consequence, this class was meant for discourse. Then, of all people, the little painter Iris set him off. Standing up slowly, he looked her way. Brow furrowed, he showed no anger even though what she said was completely wrong.

If you are entitled to your opinion, then he is entitled to his. To resort to "namecalling" shows you have little to nothing substantive to add and that he might make a point. This goes for the rest of you. Iris is right that we are no different from anyone else, but at the same time, we are meant to be better the people look to us as "protectors" and such. That responsibilty is something that should be embraced and we are lucky to be able to do so with the same goal in mind but our own individual approaches. Is it wrong that he, or anyone "combative" embrace it in the fashion that they do? If you believe so, then you have some thinking to do, because who will believe in how you embrace this. You want to know what is unethical? Not allowing an ethics class to stay on track, and lowering it into little more than a schoolyard argument.

Just as slowly as he stood, he sat, but not before looking to the instructor of the class.

Sorry Caedyn.

tag: Iris Arani Caedyn Arenais Corin Trenor

Spoiler: Personal effects

"Vanguard" (Secondary - Long Handle)

"CONSERVATOR" (Primary - Long Handle)
HK-88 Robes, Battle Armor,Toraynor-Henkan(mind crystal added) Advanced Jedi Utility Belt
Starship: Spectre, (Jedi Interceptor in the hangar, Dilorian, and Bike both in the cargo bay, the late Karki Eusith's Armor, Shield, Temple Guard Lightsaber mounted on the wall)
Sanctuary Island

 

[Corin Trenor]

“Let’s call it what it is, then.” Corin failed to resist another injection with the sudden flare and clash of personalities. Part of it amused the Padawan, frankly, a faint smirk spread across his mouth. “It’s arrogant to believe that.”

“To be ‘better’ is a choice. If you believe you have more value because you’re ‘better’, then you’re choosing to think you’re above the rest. Not much separates that line of thought and the Sith’s. Hardly surprising that would come from the Silver Jedi, with how they’ve been hiding from their responsibilities this whole war.”

There it was. That venom, the acidic spit of words. Just as capable to burn himself down with others.

Iris Arani Caltin Vanagor Caedyn Arenais

 

[Iris Arani]

"To believe your better is to believe someone is lesser. We protect people, equally, to the best of our abilities. We are not judges. We're protectors. When we raise a blade, it's to protect."

Corin Autem | Caltin Vanagor | Caedyn Arenais

 

[Jasper Kai'el]

Coruscant, Jedi Temple
Tags: Zoar , Caedyn Arenais, Corin Trenor ​

“It’s arrogant to believe that.”

“To be ‘better’ is a choice. If you believe you have more value because you’re ‘better’, then you’re choosing to think you’re above the rest. Not much separates that line of thought and the Sith’s. Hardly surprising that would come from the Silver Jedi, with how they’ve been hiding from their responsibilities this whole war.”

The hypocrisy was practically killing Jasper. He couldn't handle the intense lack of self-awareness that Corin had. Had he been to any recent battle? Plenty from the Silvers had been at Empress Teta, and surely some had been at Tython as well. Most moronic of all, the Jedi didn't exist to fight the Sith. They existed too keep the peace. As dangerous of a threat that the Maw posed, they weren't the only dangerous groups in the galaxy. Corin didn't just wake up and choose violence. He wanted to burn the temple with him inside it.

"I'm sorry," he said, turning to Zoar. "Meet me in the hangar later, okay? I wanna talk more engineering with you later... I just can't sit through this."

Jasper stood, awkwardly making his way towards the exit. He paused briefly to give a respectful bow to Master Arenais before taking his leave. Jasper was all for debate, but not when it lacked respect. One should enter dialogue to learn, not insult. All that did was spread frustration, and Jasper didn't want to stick around for the inevitable outcome. He had seen enough at the sparring event to know where that went.

 

[Caltin Vanagor]

"You can lead a horse to water, but get him to float on his back and THEN you've done something!" - Johnny Carson​

"School yard argument."

Yeah, he heard what the Padawan had said, but his youthful bias and intellectual inexperience was on display. No sense engaging him any further, the boy relished the attention.

tag: Anyone and everyone

Spoiler: Personal effects

"Vanguard" (Secondary - Long Handle)

"CONSERVATOR" (Primary - Long Handle)
HK-88 Robes, Battle Armor,Toraynor-Henkan(mind crystal added) Advanced Jedi Utility Belt
Starship: Spectre, (Jedi Interceptor in the hangar, Dilorian, and Bike both in the cargo bay, the late Karki Eusith's Armor, Shield, Temple Guard Lightsaber mounted on the wall)
Sanctuary Island

 

[Nameless One]

Well this was certainly going in a direction she hadn't forseen... the padawan seemed to want the attention an another was leaving because of it. She debated stopping Jasper Kai'el but he wasn't required to be here.. it was optional and only served to give a healthy debate as it were. Caltin seemed to be taking the lead and she had little care to engage when he was trying to provoke members of the silver jedi into... what she was guessing wasn't as important. Dragging them down to petty insults or snide comments would serve the librarian little else but she remained quiet watching the other one wwho was speaking the girl had an idea but she was set to not listen to what others had explained. No one put the jedi above but they were looked at in ways. Perception was a powerful thing.

 

[Caedyn Arenais]

---

Curriculum: Philosophy, Ethics & Diplomacy.
Class Tutor: Caedyn Arenais.
Location: The Jedi Temple of Coruscant | Meditation Chamber.
Tags: Nameless One , Zoar , Jasper Kai'el , Gabriel Pryce , Corin Trenor , Iris Arani , Silas Westgard , Valery Noble , Caltin Vanagor , Starlin Rand .

---

If you are entitled to your opinion, then he is entitled to his. To resort to "namecalling" shows you have little to nothing substantive to add and that he might make a point. This goes for the rest of you. Iris is right that we are no different from anyone else, but at the same time, we are meant to be better the people look to us as "protectors" and such. That responsibilty is something that should be embraced and we are lucky to be able to do so with the same goal in mind but our own individual approaches. Is it wrong that he, or anyone "combative" embrace it in the fashion that they do? If you believe so, then you have some thinking to do, because who will believe in how you embrace this. You want to know what is unethical? Not allowing an ethics class to stay on track, and lowering it into little more than a schoolyard argument.

Just as slowly as he stood, he sat, but not before looking to the instructor of the class.

Sorry Caedyn.

"They are still young, experience may open their eyes to the point of the lesson" Caedyn spoke directly to Caltin Vanagor , giving a subtle wave of his left hand in dismissive apathy. The Jedi Knight wasn't as bothered by the reactions he was receiving. He too was of the same age once upon a time, and just as impulsive and closed-minded as some were displaying today. Even so, he had given them leave to disagree with his perspective and they were doing so based on their own experiences in their individual paths that had led up to now.

"No life is ever worth more than another. Those gifted with the Force are not simply more valuable because they help people. You're an ass if you think yourself more valuable."

"Arrogance is always something to be mindful of" Caedyn gestured to Iris Arani , "Just as much so as our judgement of others for sharing a different set of values and beliefs in contrast of our own. It is the Jedi way to be open, understanding and impartial to the differences that set us all apart from others" Caedyn responded to the young Padawan Arani, speaking with a calm reminder of her expected role as a member of the New Jedi Order.

"As far as a sense of value in our lives compared to others is concerned, all life is precious. There is no denying that. But consider your potential for the thousands of innocent lives you will have eventually served should you live long enough as a Jedi to do so, compared to that of a civilian for example. Civilians don't share our responsibility or obligations to the Galaxy, they live for themselves whereas we live to serve others..." Caedyn explained, elaborating more on his point of view; "It's very important for young Jedi like yourselves to not go into the battlefield ready to give your lives. If you get killed out there today, for example, you will leave those potential thousands without the positive impact you might have had on their lives. It's all well and good being a selfless Jedi, but a suicidal mindset for a Jedi will only serve to do more harm than good and that is why I am pushing this across to you all".

"Furthermore, though some of you may doubt it, I genuinely care for the safety and well-being of all of you. As do your Master and senior peers. It's our responsibility to guide and protect all of you, just as it is yours to serve those out in the wider Galaxy. Take to this perspective with an open mind. You need to look beyond your own values and ideologies for the wisdom in such lessons. Nothing is said without there being a gem hidden behind what I'm telling you" Caedyn concluded. He wanted them to think for themselves, but he also wanted to encourage the students to look to others and consider what was important to their peers. In this, it seemed a pivotal moment to point out the care of their Mentors, their senior Jedi and yes, their tutor for the class.

Jasper Kai'el had chosen to leave the classroom, to which Caedyn caught his gaze and gave him a nod of approval. He had been reading the room, choosing to tolerate the more impulsive and irresponsible reactions from the lads peers. It was an open floor, one that encouraged discussion by all for the sake of learning. Some would hopefully come to consider the lesson later, while others might take the learning from the lesson during which it was being taught. They were all at different stages of their learning and for Padawan Kai'el, Caedyn made a mental note to catch up with in the near future. That or speak to Valery Noble , and suggest she do so in order to ensure his peace of mind and progress in the theory of Jedi Practices.

"Now then. I asked you all a question and I'm waiting for an answer. If you don't recognize the quote that I repeated then I will be extremely disappointed in your progress as Jedi...-It is a crucial lesson that has been taught to Jedi for centuries. Arguably the heart of the very Jedi Order itself..." Caedyn gestured to the group of students with the expectation of moving on with the lesson. If none of them recognized The Jedi Tenets, the second part of the Jedi Code then that would speak volumes for the importance of today's class, as well as their learning thus far.

 

[Starlin Rand]

Hands trembling with apparent rage, Starlin grasped Corin’s shoulders, shook them a little… then let go.

“I wish you were my Padawan,” he said, with a good-natured grin. “So I could knock some sense into you.”

That was the trouble with Lief . He’d always been so eager to absorb everything Starlin said, taking it all as gospel. A student who questioned him, let alone one who argued with him, would’ve been so refreshing.

On the other hand, it would probably get old pretty quick. Jasper certainly couldn't stomach it any longer, deciding to leave the classroom after Corin opened his mouth one too many times.

Caltin took issue with something Iris said, which surprised Starlin. Of all the Paddies in this room who deserved to be picked on, the big guy went after the spacey artsy girl? Well, they couldn’t all gang up on Corin, he supposed…

“Girl, you’ve just been making statements this whole time,” Starlin casually critiqued Iris. “Ask some questions, show a little uncertainty. The wise know that they know nothing for sure.”

He returned to his easygoing reclined position. “What if the Jedi are better than, worse than, and equal to everyone else all at the same time, just in different ways? We’re better because we can do things other people can’t, like using the Force. But we’re worse because our power requires a level of self-control most people simply don’t possess—if we lose control, people get hurt. And we’re equal because we’re all imperfect sentient beings who live and die in the same galaxy. Can you dig it?”

The Man in White Corin Trenor Silas Westgard Caedyn Arenais Gabriel Pryce Zoar Valery Noble Caltin Vanagor Iris Arani Nameless One​

 

[Iris Arani]

Iris just frowned. Stared at Caedyn for a moment, then to Starlin.

"If you're telling me going into a fight and risking your life for no reason is foolish, I agree. But if it comes down to saving myself because I might save more people, or saving someone else even if it costs me my life, I'll save someone else. That is the duty we take up as Jedi. It's the choice we make. The choice I make, at least. I didn't become a Jedi to hold back because I might save someone later. There are people who need us now. And they are not worth less, no matter how you look at it."

Caedyn Arenais | Starlin Rand

 

[Caedyn Arenais]

---

Curriculum: Philosophy, Ethics & Diplomacy.
Class Tutor: Caedyn Arenais.
Location: The Jedi Temple of Coruscant | Meditation Chamber.
Tags: Nameless One , Zoar , Jasper Kai'el , Gabriel Pryce , Corin Trenor , Iris Arani , Silas Westgard , Valery Noble , Caltin Vanagor , Starlin Rand .

---

"If you're telling me going into a fight and risking your life for no reason is foolish, I agree. But if it comes down to saving myself because I might save more people, or saving someone else even if it costs me my life, I'll save someone else. That is the duty we take up as Jedi. It's the choice we make. The choice I make, at least. I didn't become a Jedi to hold back because I might save someone later. There are people who need us now. And they are not worth less, no matter how you look at it."

"And what if the situation and the people you're fighting for, present an unwinnable outcome? What's the better of two evils?" Caedyn posed, ending the question with a controversial saying for the sake of the students' consideration; "Not everyone out there is going to be able to be saved. Not every mission is going to go your way, there are going to be assignments you take on that go bad and during those times you need to know when to pull back" Caedyn told Iris Arani , choosing not to sugarcoat the reality of their lives as Jedi.

"You all need to understand something very important to your future service as Jedi. Nothing goes to plan. Everything deviates from what we expect to meet out there, and you will fail. Not always, but eventually you will come across a point where failure is inevitable and you must be able to think, be smart and realistic about your chances. Don't just throw yourselves into the fire blindly".

 

[Corin Trenor]

Corin never even missed a beat.

His shoulder were rocked back and forth, and even then the Padawan seemed to be unbothered by the fact. Even somewhat amused, with the same small smirk from his earlier remarks set across his face. Too used to the confrontation, either from himself or those that reacted to him. It was an experience, to say the least.

"Give it your best shot." He shifted his eyes from the front of the room across to Starlin after his words before he uttered some more, "Just don't miss."

Starlin Rand