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Master Rank and What That Infers

Matreya

Well-Known Member
So a friend of mine and I were talking yesterday, for sometime actually, on the topic of Star Wars. One of the many topics maintained was, what is a Master, and what should we expect from them? And this got me to thinking, wondering what your guys' views on the subject would be.

Personally, we reached this list:
  • They must be absolutely devoted to their faction, if not then the likely hood of them having moved up would be far less. Ie. Yoda's devotion to the Living Force and the Lightside made it impossible to deny his achievements, thusly he was even named Grandmaster.
  • They should uphold their own Laws above others. Ie. A Sith Master doesn't have that many, but a Jedi must not kill, and those that do are to be brought to justice. The Lord's Masters will uphold the peace between pacted factions, so as to avoid war. Etc.
  • Power. Period. In one way or another, whether that be physical, mental, strategic, or Force, they will be of the highest calibre for their specialised skillsets.
 
Major Faction

Syn

Nimir-ra to Iella, Jedi Shadow
Not quite, saying a jedi can't kill is a pipe dream. They can do everything to have it be a last option but eventually sadly there will always be that fight where it can only end in death. As for specialized it is questionable... Some can be very specialized in a short lifetime but then some species can live longer then others. They can learn a lot more in that time. The devotion to the faction I agree with and when I have had to vote it is one of the first questions that come to mind looking at them.
 

Qae Shena

Super Shaper Puppy!
There is no one set definition for what a Master is, because a Master to every Force tradition, even in canon, is different.

But I'd hope they have common sense.
 
I agree what everybody has said for the most part. Including Qae as there is no real "Master" set. You can just BE a master. You have to earn it. Master is like getting close to the furthest in the game of life. You have reached the end of the line, but only the person can make it extend into something else entirely.

Let me clarify. If a man starts to walk, its the beginng of his thousand steps in life. As soon as he reaches those last numbers he has reached the end, However, the man can start something else and begin the process over again. Getting to master is the easy part. Passing way beyond master is the true test of a FU's life.
 
I'd be wary of this one. It's important to make a distinction here: why are characters granted Mastery? Most of the time, it's less about actual IC capability and experience, and more about OOC: contributions made to a Faction, half-decent writing skills (though this isn't always a pre-requisite, sadly), a means of peer approval, or a means to offer greater responsibility within a given Faction. And there are more I know I haven't thought of or remarked on just yet.

Realistically, you don't get 16-year-old Jedi Masters or Sith Lords. Okay, a little more likely in the latter case, but the Sith have their own (distorted!) ways of doing things. ICly, it'd just never happen. OOCly, though, of course it does: we see it often enough around here. Often it's because the writer has written a lot and tried to contribute to the forum in some fashion - it's a means of peer approval (or approval from On High) to say "You're doing a good job, keep it up". And it should be used as such, in the same way that a promotion from Apprentice to Knight indicates that you've moved on from being a new writer (whether to the board or to RPing in general), and thus are acknowledged for contribution and readiness to keep going.

Now, here's where we have issues: what are the expectations/responsibilities of a Master? It's a question that's bugged me for a while, because it's clear everyone has different expectations. Mine are pretty simple:

Serve as an example.

If you don't set a positive example and contribute to your faction as best you can, why be held up as an example against the dozens of members your character outranks? It's more than that, though: people with Apprentice or Knight-level characters looking to move up will always look at existing Masters and wonder: "What is it they do that I need to work on doing, to reach their level?". Frankly, if writers are looking at you and your character and NOT asking that question, one of two things is happening: they're already writing at the sort of standard/making a sufficient contribution to be considered 'ready' for Master rank, or, to be blunt, you probably slacked off a little since you earned yours.

The latter, by the by, is the biggest danger of Mastery: it's getting complacent. You work hard as an Apprentice to become a Knight, you work harder still as a Knight to become a Master. Whether you had said ambitions or not is irrelevant: Mastery requires hard work (or is supposed to - if it doesn't, I'd worry!). Once you've got it, what are your aspirations? What encourages you to keep writing at a good level, or contributing as much as you did before? It's really hard to do that, if I'm honest with you: it takes work and dedication, and sometimes that's too much like hard work. That said, it's part of the reason you get promoted to Master rank: once you hit it, you're expected to motivate yourself, and not need to be kicked up the ass to contribute or write well. That's what your Masters/Faction Leaders do for you before you join their ranks. After that, you're on your own.

Be a GOOD writer.

I'm not saying you have to be a an award-winning novelist to be a Master. There aren't many writers who fall into that category, and I'm not one of them. Neither are a good 90% of the writers on this board - and I intend no disparagement in saying that, because we write here for fun. Our standards are a little looser, and our methods are a little different. Just as well, all things considered - the pressure to do that post-after-post would just kill any chance you had of enjoying the RP that you do. So allow yourself to work to a slightly lower standard :p

That said, there's absolutely no excuse for anyone at Master rank consistently doing one-liner posts. If you do, and you transferred as a Master, my first reaction is going to be "How the hell did you convince someone to promote you?", and secondly, "The only example you're gonna set doing that is a bad one". Now, @[member="Ashin Varanin"] and I had a discussion on this a few months back, where I stated my natural abhorrence for short posts (including 1-3 liners), and he stated that, sometimes, that's all you need. He's right, by the by, but what he didn't say (and didn't need to) is that this should not be the only weapon in your literary arsenal. You're a Master: we should expect detail, we should expect colour, we should expect imagery. Why? Because your 'Master' tag says you're a GOOD writer as well as good at contributing and good at RPing with others. If it's not reflected in your writing...what are you a Master of, exactly?

More to the point, we come back to example: you're a Master. Your faction won't have many, so those who hold that rank are expected to set an example. 'Train' the 'younger' members, lead the way on the battlefield, facilitate the discussions etc. That's your role: be in the front lines, regardless of how. So, yes, your writing needs to be of a good caliber: if you can't deliver a decent speech, that's fine (although it helps!). If you can't write an amazing fight scene, it happens (but again, it helps!). If you can't train students, potentially not a problem, either (I know some who don't!). Where we hit a brick wall is where we have a tickbox and we're consistently ticking 'No, No, No' to said boxes. If your writing standard is below par, it'll have an effect on the rest of your faction, and you're not liable to inspire the way a Master should.

Jon and I had another discussion, too: does one need to be a Master Writer to be a Master Character? No, not really - I've seen plenty of bad writers become half-decent in the quest for Mastery, and become outright good thereafter. That said, anyone reaching Master rank has to treat that with respect: if you start writing badly as a Master (particularly since decent writing tends to be a considerable factor in obtaining it, at least here), that says you don't respect the rank and, frankly, stopped deserving it. Not a great example being set there!

Don't be ALL POWERFUL

@[member="Zaiden James-Greyson"] - The temptation was to be annoyed with you when you said:


  • Power. Period. In one way or another, whether that be physical, mental, strategic, or Force, they will be of the highest calibre for their specialised skillsets.
The answer to that is NO. You miss the point of Mastery (and, to be fair to you, a lot of people do). Mastery isn't about your character being the Uber-Whatever. I see it happen a lot: a Master suddenly becomes all-powerful, can master skills that are beyond them (or learn ones that actually wouldn't go with anybody else's skillset), and generally become unstoppable, until challenged by another Master. It's just not true - particularly if you're a 16-year-old Master who frankly won't have the experience or development in the Force (prodigy or otherwise!) to boil water.

Also, remember, Mastery is very much an OOC promotion for an IC character: contribution and quality is often looked at, but what of the character's actual development? If you're @[member="Spencer Jacobs"], yes, Mastery equates to power, because she damn well worked for it. For others...nope. A Master, particularly in terms of a Faction, is one who represents exceptional quality or expertise. It's not about raw power or brute force: a Jedi Master isn't someone who can kick everybody's ass, because their elevation represents understanding and the exemplification of qualities appropriate to a Jedi. It's true, you rarely see a weak Jedi Master, but this stems from understanding of the Force appropriate to those qualities, not merely rank: to Jedi, when you are calm, collected, objective and open to the Force, it will touch you more strongly. That makes you both a Master in respect of values and provides potential for growth in power, but it doesn't equate directly to outright strength.

More to the point, it gets really, really depressing when you see a Master (particularly a new one) become unstoppable, or bringing forth abilities and powers far beyond their prior kin, or that lack any direct training (yes, Vaapad Masters, I'd expect a DAMN good development thread before you could qualify yourself as even remotely close to being able to use it, much less be a 'Master' of the art!). You get your Luke Skywalker's, Mace Windu's, Obi-Wan Kenobi's, but these should be few and far between. Your regular Master is a Corran Horn, a Cilghal, a Kenth Hamner: gifted in their own ways, certainly, but not in every way, and with plenty of counter-balancing weaknesses and downsides. Preferably tangible weaknesses that have a real downside: no point having Corran Horn's inability to use Telekinesis if you weren't gonna bother with it to begin with. Then it's just for show.

How many Masters on this board are Vaapad Masters, or know 4-6 Lightsaber Forms with more than your basic competency? How many can dazzle you with both Illusions and then blast you with unstoppable levels of Telekinesis? Oh, and can also use Battle Meditation, Flow Walking, Force Storm, Drain Knowledge, Transfer Essence and Sith Sorcery/Alchemy? If you qualify as one of these, you're either absurd, or have many, MANY years of experience writing said character (and the very few who can justify all of these actually do). For new Masters, understand this: you don't have these things, and if you think you do, you're not a Master. You're a Powergamer. That's as blunt as I can make it.

Oh, and it's worth noting: nobody that reads this is going to go "Oh, yeah, maybe I do that". None of you do. Except, yes, it happens. Think about it a little as you head towards the lofty heights of Mastery, please.

OOC Point: Why Do You Want To Be A Master?

I'm dead serious on this: ask yourselves. What's your goal? To be powerful? To be well-respected? To have authority? If you're aiming for Mastery (as people do), be seriously clear in what your reasons are for it. If it's all about ego, please, just stop now. A Master flaunting their 'powers' because of their rank is a) arrogant, :cool: blind and c) the schoolyard bully. Not hard to defeat a guy with a slingshot when you've got a rocket launcher: there's no skill in that, and certainly not good writing. It's EASY. Mastery's about setting an example, both to others and, perhaps more importantly, to yourself. If you take on a job, professionally, you've got to live up to the standards that provides. A Manager has to work hard and keep things running smoothly. A Teacher has to inspire children and encourage them to go for grades that reflect their abilities and, more to the point, their potential. A Doctor has to work hard to make the right calls and keep people healthy and, more importantly, alive. So what's the job of a Master? Do you get it and then stop working? Or do you have to push yourself to keep your standards high and reflect the honour granted in elevating you to it?

I know, I know, I prefer to hold Masters to high standards - and it's not unreasonable to say that I do so to excess on occasion. My point here, however, is that you should be holding yourselves to high standards if you want to be Masters: that's the nature of the role. To be a Master is to hold responsibility, IC authority over those ranked lower than you, quite often carrying Faction responsibility with it, and yes, as I've said, to set a good example. You're the Role Models of the board. I don't want to put anyone off, but the rule is simple: if you can't maintain that simple (but difficult) standard, or don't want to, don't become a Master. Turn it down if you get offered it, or choose not to pursue it if you're not sure that part is for you. Remember, not everyone can, will or should be a Master. It's not as simple as just turning up.

Or shouldn't be. I'll add that qualifier.

That said, if you've got it in you to set an example, work your ass off to contribute, aspire to good standards of writing (Note: I said 'aspire to' rather than 'constantly display'!) and really want to help others improve in their own RP experience, go for it, absolutely. I encourage this :)
 

Matreya

Well-Known Member
@[member="Teynara Jeralyr"] "one who represents exceptional quality or expertise" that's more or less what I meant in that same portion you had a problem with. Power is to be better st something than another, meaning that they had the exceptional skills regardless of which prerequisites we choose. However, that was rather insightful post and thus, thanks. That's more of the site bound master rank, which I did not clarify when I stated the post. I mostly had referred to canon masters. This was all over a conversation between a friend and I. Basically I said Qui Gon among others is an awesome master because of his range of skills, but he said he should not even hold the rank.
@[member="Syn"] what I meant was they couldn't murder out of revenge etc.
@[member="Tegaea Alcori"] that's the general idea we had, those belonging to certain factions having to follow rules but for the most part the power, and a feeling of responsibility.
@[member="Dranok Lussk"] I should have mentioned that... Lol.
 
Sarge Potteiger said:
I actually read that whole thing.
It's so lovely not to get my usual 'TL;DR' :) Thank you!

I mostly had referred to canon masters.
No problem: that's an easy one to answer. We can skip over powers, relative strengths and the other nonsensical means of quantifying Mastery, and go straight for the objective parts:

- Has experience in the field, sufficient to warrant Advisory or Legislative capacity within a given Faction (i.e. to be within the upper levels of the Hierarchy)

- Dedication to the Faction both in word, thought and deed, such that they can be considered loyalists.

- Contribution to their Faction: teaching students, gathering knowledge, protecting the values and physical assets (including people) of that Faction

- Exemplifies qualities considered 'ideal' for members of that Faction: a Sith Lord exemplifies strength, brutality, ruthlessness and survivalism, while a Jedi Master exemplfiies calm, collected, ethical and objective behaviour.

- Is considered effective in pursuit of their duties and the execution of such by their peers and superiors

- Has strongly-defined values (moral, ethical, intellectual etc) that closely match those espoused by their Faction

- Serve as a role model to younger/junior members of that faction

- Can outwardly represent that Faction to external powers or groups: serve as spokeperson or representative for their Faction, either in a formal capacity (Senate Representative etc) or in the informal capacity (i.e. "this person is a good reflection of members of the Jedi Order")

- Sets standards for others to follow, rather than follows a set standard and just meets it. Encourages others to exceed those standards and expectations.

- Has a broad range of skills and capabilities, enabling them to adapt to difficult situations

- Handles difficult situations with aplomb and composure, as befits an experienced practitioner capable of adapting to circumstances not always within their control

- Instructs and supervises other members of the Faction with their duties, and encourages them to excel, facilitating effective personal development within this role, enabling them to grow
 

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