Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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Let's get rid of the requirements for Force Users

Ashin Varanin

Professional Enabler
Credit where credit's due: that idea comes from [member="Sirella Valkner"], who no longer RPs but did a lot of good stuff for the community back in the day.

Independent of that, though, it sounds like a good suggestion. Just hit Master once... That's kinda cool.
 
I like how people think this is a collusion by Staff to push for this to happen. Staff was just as confused as you guys. This is just a suggestion.

And one that I made to make a point to someone. Thanks for your opinions, guys.
 

Dezoti

Guest
D
Why not do a trial run? For a month, people can make a master rank character with a specially marked profile. In that month, we see how people react to these characters IC and out. There's a lot of speculation on what might happen, so lets just see what does. People who make these characters do so under the stipulation that at the end of the month the characters will have to go away if the idea of instant masters doesn't work.

Just a thought.
 
Disclaimer: I'm new and biased.

My thoughts on this is that there needs to be a middle ground. I think an acceptable middle ground would be removing the restrictions on starting as a Knight, but requiring the same, similar or slightly relaxed requirements for becoming a master. The reason for this is being a master of any order, Sith or Jedi should be something you have to work towards, and is a great position of not only power, but also prestige without the universe, and that should be kept above the ability for anyone to simply join up as.

As for the Knight being free-for-all, it's my opinion that people shouldn't be forced to RP as a padawan / acolyte / trainee / rookie unless they want to. Some people simply don't enjoy that sort of things, and it's unfair to enforce anyone who wants to be a Jedi Knight, to have to go through a set of training threads with a Master when they really don't want to. I'll admit I'm biased in this because I'm joining up with a friend of mine, and we'll be playing twin Jedi Knights ideally who work together on missions etc. Neither of us really want to be partnered with another master, and want to do our own small thing in the galaxy.

Edit: Wanted to add some more.

Why are there no regulations for Force powers / Lightsaber forms / Piloting skills / Gunnery skills / weapon skills, yet having someone starting from Master is an issue? If power balance is an issue, then should we not be discussing these, rather than discussing people starting from a Jedi Knight or Master?
 
Smack said:
I think an acceptable middle ground would be removing the restrictions on starting as a Knight, but requiring the same, similar or slightly relaxed requirements for becoming a master.
The new guy has a good idea here I think.

For a lot of people, especially those with a lot of characters, starting as a knight would be quite helpful as we've gone through the apprentice stage before many times.
Now, if you want to start as an apprentice, by all means, but if you have one knight you should be able to start new characters as apprentice OR knight. Keep master ranks something you have to work for.

(Opinion only, not official staff in any way.)
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
But if you have one knight you should be able to start new characters as apprentice OR knight. Keep master ranks something you have to work for.

(Opinion only, not official staff in any way.)
I still like the suggestion that if you have one Master, you can start new characters as master if you choose, but I can see how that is a fairly big change. This might be a more safe and reasonable compromise, a cool way to test the waters and see how much abuse it generates.

And if all goes well, staff could always look at the other proposal at a later time.
 

Alyona Volkovna (Алёна)

Алёна Вохин (Light of the Voxyn)
I'm going to reiterate a suggestion I made a couple pages back, only because I didn't catch if anyone had noticed or given it consideration (I've tried to continue following along but have surely missed/skipped posts).

1) Keep rank system.

2) Apply rank system to each writer, rather than each character.

3) Writers still have to work hard for Master, but it applies to them as a writer (which is what were focused on with the rule anyway, no?), allowing them more creative freedom so they're not having to RE-prove themselves each time they want to design a new, and different, character.

Other potential additions:

1) Increase the threshold for acceptance as Master.

2) Let factions run it however they want (regardless of the site system).

3) I forgot #3.
 

Titan

Well-Known Member
Smack said:
Disclaimer: I'm new and biased.

My thoughts on this is that there needs to be a middle ground. I think an acceptable middle ground would be removing the restrictions on starting as a Knight, but requiring the same, similar or slightly relaxed requirements for becoming a master. The reason for this is being a master of any order, Sith or Jedi should be something you have to work towards, and is a great position of not only power, but also prestige without the universe, and that should be kept above the ability for anyone to simply join up as.
I can't like this enough.
 
Im totally for it. RP is RP. Whats a tag gonna do but limit creativity. And make people go " im stronger than you cuz I has dis dis and dis!"

If anything getting rid of requirements would make people Communicate OOC more. Or they should do it more
 
I'll add my two cents here, and it's a slight alternation of what others have said before:

Once someone has proven themselves to not be merciless couchbuggery godmodders, the rules reasons for requiring a character to start from square one are kind of moot. The main reason is to prove someone had self control, yes?

My personal opinion (and I know I'm new here at Chaos, so take this as just that), is that once someone has reached Knight level once, any new characters they create should be able to start as either padawan/apprentices or knights. This allows for younger or older characters with a wide range of experiences, based on what someone wants to write, but it avoids Instant Masters (tm) who just show up (IC) out of no where. IMO, a Jedi or Sith Master ought to have a history, IC with other characters. Which is my main concern with creating Master rank characters out of thin air.

No surprise I guess that my concern is one that's primarily IC RP focused.
 
I'll give my single cent here because I don't want to spend much money with this.

I have my only character has a Apprentice , and now that I got a master I'm going to work for knight/master. Now if I had started has Master I wouldn't have had worked hard. I'm gonna be honest, my writing skills when I first joined were rubbish and they still are. But I'm learning, and my posts are improving. For example

My first post was this:
The transport shuttle that Undin was in had just landed in the planet, and has he walked out , he could see some strange lights in the distances being wielded by strange men or women "What's that?" , He tought to himself. "Could it be... Jedi and Sith?". He quickly runs near where the men or women are and tries to observe what's going on.

My latest IC post is this:
"Yes don't worry Thar, we're near Ryloth, you can get some Mailoo fruits for yourself and I'll get some Banta milk for myself, ok? Anyway , just land and I'll go to the nearest cantina." , said the young boy to his pilot and buddy Thar Kmel as he replied with a simple "Ok.".

As soon as they landed Undin jumped out of the V-Wing and into the ground as he told Thar "Finally, I can feel the ground again, now go and hurry up and get your precious Mailoo fruits. I need to get a drink", he said while he walked inside a cantina. As soon as he entered he felt an old familiar presence, and he knew this presence would only bring him trouble, but the thurst was too much for him to handle. He also felt, a dark presence, a presence he had never felt before, so he was keeping an eye around him. He put up his hoodie over his head to cover himself up , and then sat in a stool at the bar, where he ordered a Banta milk, but tried to keep his voice down so Jakkor Kess wouldn't bother him.

See how much improvement? And my if there were no rank system I would've started as a Master and the latests post would still be as crappy as the first.
I think that the rank system really helps improve someone's writing skills, as if they're going to try and reach the next rank they are going to try their best, while if someone starts at Master and they're new to starwarsrp forums they're not going to improve that much, since they're master and it would be something like this:

(Insert skilled Mandalorian equipted with best armor + best rifles + best gadgets) : Ah! I've got you in my scopes *shoots freezy ray and makes the opponents body fall to the ground, completely frozen)

xXSuperJeidMeisterXx: Uses the force to stop the freeze ray and sends it back at the bald looking guy he then grabs his saber /Keep in mind he had never turned it on IC/ and kills the guy /Without asking permission/.

That's my opinion of what would happen atleast
 
I see nothing wrong with the current system. When I first brought Kurayami here, there was going to be latent potential that he would later explore and learn of his talents over a long while. Much the same as everyone else who starts as an apprentice. I was asked by the one who invited me why i didn't just transfer him, he had a total of 8+ years of development, his original training threads lost to the eons long ago. Unfortunately life has a way of throwing curveballs sometimes, so the person who was to train me got slammed with all sorts of things going on and things got more busy for me as well. I gave it a bit to settle, but it only seemed to get more crazy as time went on. So i had a couple old friends vouch for a rank transfer, people whom I know remember my first posts and how ridiculous they were.

It took me awhile to admit to myself that I wasn't going to get the chance to really delve into the development of his latent abilities as much as I had hoped to, and I come from sites where you could easily start as a Lord/Master level character. Yea sure it was fun to be able to jump right into the fray, but few if any writers had any respect for a new Master equivalent character who just showed up out of nowhere. The main issue I recall with such systems was that in some ways it encouraged meta-gaming. You could have thousands of posts and many years behind a character, and someone would walk in with a new character who magically knew everything you did, and then some and could counter almost anything you could manage, and when asked to edit they'd refuse based on the fact that they were of equivalent rank to you so if you could do something then there was no reason they couldn't. That doesn't even get into characters created solely for the purpose of jumping into someone else's thread and just screwing the whole thing up because they could and had a high enough rank to 'legitimately' last in a duel if they were challenged.

Will abolishing rank systems lead to such issues? Not necessarily, but it very easily could. If I didn't have the amount of experience I do on RP boards, then I would not have even considered a rank transfer, because my confidence that I could do a Master level character came from many years of already having written one under both stricter and more lax rules. I had a lot of experiences to fall back on both good and bad. That is a major thing that someone needs in my opinion to write a Master level character successfully. Experience, time spent reading other's posts, both those that do it right and those who do it wrong, and make those mistakes themselves before being granted a rank like Master.

As for the post count idea, I am not against it, however the ranks I don't think should be purely post count. Rather only IC posts would be considered in the promotion. 500 posts IC would mean that I would still be at Knight level at best as many of mine have been OOC posts. Why I would place that restriction is so that we have a relatively clear idea of how the character has developed in terms of learning and utilizing the Force, whether through a PC/NPC master or just over time on their own. It gives people something to work towards and provides incentive to figure out an IC solution instead of causing OOC drama, due to the fact that only their IC posts would help them 'level up.'

Again, I will say that I don't feel the system is broken as it stands, and of course someone is going to game the system either way, people are like that sometimes. You won't stop those who want to cause drama from doing so no matter how strict the guidelines are to attain the next rank. The system in place works well from what I have seen and I had quite a bit of planning going into possible story arcs. I was excited to write a character from the bottom up, and this was a character who had been a Master for a long time. Don't view starting at the lowest rank as a bad thing or a negative. It isn't. I had to make some edits to my bio when I did the transfer so it made some sort of IC sense. That was incredibly annoying to me honestly, and then having to find what powers fit his character and everything else took a long time to get a decent list together. I had been trying to figure something out almost since I started here, but I knew it would be a bit before I posted that he was even learning those powers. And I was looking forward to the stories that comes from such things.

In my honest opinion, the best characters and those I respect most end up having a good amount of story behind their characters. They have threads showing that they weren't just this amazing prodigy from the get go. They had to learn and make mistakes, and learn over time. Learn to savor the journey and the challenges that come with working towards the next rank. I've honestly thought about going back and doing a write up of his training, breaking it up and doing blog posts to give background on how he came to be where he is now. Because I didn't get the chance to do it as I had planned originally. Problem is time and making sure everything works right. Could be fun though, just to get an idea of the 'what could have been.'

Just my thoughts based on past experiences.
 
What [member="Smack"] said.

People forget that a Sith Apprentices (what I see called Sith Knight here) and Jedi Knights are not typically super powerful. Then again, Jedi Masters and Darths in the books, comics and movies had limits too.

Masters in the movies and such that I liked (Shaak Ti, Kit Fisto,Saesee Tiin, Lord Kopecz, Lord Kas'im) had definite limits. They got by on other stuff besides raw power. Besides, it's lazy to just say you did something crazy to fix a bind you're in unless it's some kind of event like being near death (Johun Othone surviving a 50'+ fall despite being a scrub comes to mind) or near some nexus.
 

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