Combat + Dice Rolls = Win?

[Matt the Radar Tech]

THIS IS NOT A RULE CREATION SUGGESTION; THIS IS A QUESTION/SUGGESTION ON VOLUNTARY USE BETWEEN CONSENTING INDIVIDUALS/GROUPS​

My question for members:

Why aren't we utilizing a really basic system for combat, which involves something we already have available in discord - the dice roll?

And if we are, who is using it, and how has it worked out for you, so far?

I'll continue, either way...

It would be a fairly simple method, really. You decide the dice type (d6, d10, etc), and when you enter combat you decide on two methods of rolling (per attack/defense, or a general success per post). Then, you compare, tally and play out the result.

Examples:

- Blaster shots
- Lightsaber strikes
- Fleet losses (random result = fighters lost, etc)
- Artillery effectiveness
- Starfighter evasiveness
- Etc, etc, etc

This could prove to be a method of avoiding invincibility claims, and to bring some enforced reactions to characters that are otherwise immune to damage or capable of dodging everything.

But the crux of this question/suggestion is that it's purely voluntary; and there can also be limitations to the use, such as avoiding death, and comes with the agreement between individuals/groups that death strikes are limited, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Strider Garon]

I think such a system would have to be agreed upon both parties and not a forced rule. Some argue that dice rolls take away creative freedom. I personally have used dice many times to enhance creativity and invite randomness. Being on the bad side of the dice gods OOC is part reason Strider looks so handsome IC. *Shivers at the memory of double crit fail*

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

[member="Strider Garon"]

Definitely. This wouldn't be enforced as a rule, but more an option should parties agree to it.

 

[Darth Bellum]

The issue with dice systems in general is the entire RNG aspect of it. It wouldn't make sense for a seasoned sniper to miss a shot that they normally should be able to make because of a dice failure, or a skilled duelist losing to a rookie because of it. Similarly, I can't call me chopping off someone's arm in a duel because I got a perfect roll because that in and of itself is calling a hit. As far as whether or not they can find something useful while searching for something, then it makes more sense because that type of roll doesn't affect the player or their skills. But if both parties agree to it and won't regret the results that come out of the rolls, then by all means, let them throw their fate to chance.

 

[Lief]

It's gonna be a no from me.

Sure if people WANT to then they can, there's no rules currently stopping people from doing it that way, but I certainly don't want this to be an enforceable thing.

 

[Lief]

--

 

[Kyle Ajahn]

I'd prefer to not deal with dice rolls, I'd prefer to keep that to tabletop. I won't say others can't do it, and it sounds like some could have fun with it, but I personally would prefer not to deal with it myself.

Part of the reason I don't like it is because there's something to be said for some about being able to write yourself in and out of a situation realistically. If you can't call your own characters damage right than you're probably not doing it right or realistically.

 

[Jsc]

Why aren't we utilizing a really basic system for combat, which involves something we already have available in discord - the dice roll?

Because gateway drug.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

Adjusted original post for clarity.

 

[Srina Talon]

I'm afraid that I would have to decline this -unless- I could see a real workable system in action that didn't defy true character reactions/responses. It may sound strange, but I was contemplating doing something like this for fun, however, for more serious combat situations it doesn't seem totally viable. Unfortunately, it seems like it would overcomplicate a system that was just recently overhauled to be simpler.

In the effort to see both sides...

Concerns:

-How would that work for Fleeting and NPC's? Would each action require a roll to see if it is successful? That could get complicated very quickly.

-In battles against uneven opponents, such as an Apprentice vs a Master, how would dice rolls fair? It wouldn't make sense from a character standpoint for the Apprentice to trump the Master in every way simply because they got lucky with dice rolls. [Basically, what Kor Vexen said.]

-If it took place in an Invasion that an RPJ would need to review, it could make things more time consuming for them, by needing to check the rolls to see why something happened the way it did if it doesn't immediately make sense. [Just a guess - I don't know how this is done.]

-Overall, I'm mostly afraid of the ways it might detract from the story being told.

Pros:

- Could be fun. Yes, it could help limit the curse of invincibility we all seem to have.

- The random fun to be had in Dominions, Faction Threads, one on ones etc could really benefit from something like this to spice up something that may have otherwise been dull. Creativity can be changed, modified, and enhanced with little tools like this but like stated above...Very situational.


In duels/pvp rolling systems can work, but, only with people that are in good standing with each other and trust one another. If it can be implemented as an occasional tool, I feel like that would be better, versus creating a standardized system that we all use. So...I can see some value, definitely, but it would work far better in some scenarios than others.

 

[Eralam]

There are some folks who like that action. Like everything else, it's a matter of taste. Given the, ahem, chaotic nature of combat on here, and the fact that there aren't that many people who are technically proficient in sword or gunplay, your average brawl would probably benefit from hard numbers. Come up with some modifiers to represent character skill levels and who knows? It might take off.

But probably not.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

[member="Srina Talon"] [member="Kor Vexen"] [member="Jyn Lorr"]

I suppose the best way to explain it would be two methods, determined by situation.

One could be considered a 'guide roll', which would give a basic direction for usual posting - eg: both opponents roll, one scores higher, and as a result the usual RP post nudges in that individual's favor (so a glancing blow might land, or a weapon might malfunction, but overall the story continues - and it would fall to the 'loser' of the roll to determine the effect, as per standard rules). This would be less hard fact, more 'luck was on that person's side for this posting round', and they get an agreed on benefit, without slowing combat or posts down with roll by roll.

[member="Kor Vexen"] Obviously if there's other factors, such as vast rank differences, the agreed on results would be less severe to someone with more skill, etc, etc. The point of this guide roll is purely that, just an indication and a way to make things a little unpredictable.

[member="Srina Talon"] And because it's a method of guiding, agreed on by two (or more) people involved in a fight, the rolls themselves wouldn't matter to RPJs, as the story would flow from those results, and would be immaterial due to consent and agreement of the method.

The second would be hard crunching for big scale losses and fleets. Usually that kind of damage agreement can be foggy at best, so this could assist in giving randomized turret damage or fighter loss, etc. Again, not meant for slowing pace or posting, just to give some quick results to continue RPing off, and to make things a little fairer when it comes to calculating losses in big engagements.

Overall though, this isn't meant to be a hard ruling for the community; it's more a suggestion on potential ways we could eliminate some of that auto-dodge and unfairness, but generally there would be a mutual agreement from the outset to use this method in a fight, so that probably wouldn't be too big an issue. From what I understand, some people use dice rolls in a similar fashion, but it's never been given specifics - so the above examples could be a start for some consenting, non-community ruling, agreed to forms for use?

Alternatively, it could also be fun to use for people who are interested for their specific battles; I'm considering using it with a future opponent in a skirmish, just to see if it's viable or worth it.

But again, this isn't a call for a hard rule change to community.

I guess my next question would be: Anyone else want to try it out?

 

[Definitely Not Tefka]

This question, while totally valid, suffers from the same stigma as an Admin giving an answer and then going “but thats not a Staff response.”

Like, the Admin is correct, but we have already developed a preconceived notion of “how correct”. Just like people see you saying “it’s voluntary” they think “does he really want it to be voluntary tho” and answer it based on that.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Darth Excidium"]
No. Combat + Dice Rolls = D&D

Which I love, and I run a session every week.

It's not forum RPing though.

I have stuck with the notion of having Fleeting having some systems for about 4 of my 5 years here, if only for myself so I knew how to respond. I've created pretty detailed, intricate systems which ran during Omega and Incursion. The problem is, even for me, it's just not fun. It stops being RPing, it turns into D&D or Warhammer 40k.

There will not ever be any sort of official system supported, designed or endorsed by staff. The balance, playtesting, bugs and so on are just limitless. Even the Factory with its 'stats' of Very Low to Extreme are hard to balance, imagine having to write a game? People get paid to do that full time, and whilst I could do it, I don't want to, and the board doesn't want it.

BUT, if you want to do your own system of determining how YOU take hits, knock yourself out. So long as it doesn't break the board rules especially god modding by saying 'I only take damage on a 100 on a D100', you can do it if you like.

But it's not being propagated by staff.

 

[Ordo]

If you fight me, we can roll dem bones.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"] I suspect there's been a little misunderstanding as to the extent of the idea. There wouldn't be stats, no +X to skills, no attributes, etc. Simply high or low, in the guided roll notion; or dXX loss in fleeting rolls.

Nobody has time to incorporate a D&D style method into a play-by-post. That's madness.

Instead, this would just be some set variables for players to have fun with - a battle can swing your way, or it won't, and the player is in a position to react to it. It's purely up to the player's discretion at how intricate they want to get, or how simple, but my personal usage would be in guiding a response based on a comparative dice roll (me + opponent = one of us has the tides turn in RP). It wouldn't be for landing crits, or confirming them, or passing armor values, etc, etc.

Eg:

Excidium fought against Luke Skywalker. Before a combat turn, they roll 1d20. Excidium gets 4, Luke gets a 14 - he has the upper-hand in RP response, and it's my job to decide how that affects Excidium. So I do this:

Luke attacks, uses a grenade; Excidium manages to avoid the blast, but the catwalk becomes unstable and it collapses (the loss of roll event), which causes him to tumble into a lower portion of the factory. His enemy has the high ground (gasp), and the tides have turned!

Roll again; Excidium gets 20, Luke 7.

Luke pushes his attack, but the damage to the building was more than it seemed, and some collapses causing debris to hit him (his choice of loss event), and Excidium manages to get close during that dazed phase, and begins attacking with his lightsaber.

Etc.

That's the intent. Not crazy stat crunching or attribute modifiers.

Also, not a rule change or addition; just a potential combat mechanic for those interested.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Darth Excidium"]
You can use whatever you like if your opponent agrees. Of course, you can't make anyone do it if you don't want to, but if someone wants to, sure.

I'm just making our position very clear.

 

[xAcheron]

I'd be entirely down for something like this, but Chaos will never accept it.