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Ukraine:Civil War or Just a Flash in the Pan?
- Thread starter Noah Corek
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Satara Hawk
Singing Mountain Ma'tra
Welcome to the world of mainstream media. They only really cover things they truly support... I mean, their owners. Ukraine has been really the only country our media and all the big world ones have covered in a long time and on a daily basis. Everything else, you find out by looking elsewhere. Like Venezuela, Turkey. Even Bosnia, our next door neighbor that should be, by the rules of: the closer it is to you, the more relevant it is got ridiculously lame coverage and where I had to go to to impossible sites to actually see all of the footage.
As far as Ukraine goes... dude, there is nothing good about the EU. Only someone who isn't the EU can think there is. I pity that poor fellow. We were foolish once and we've been the EU for a while now and we still haven't seen the whole deal. Now, as far as protests go, somebody is always fueling that. It starts somewhere, with someone, and a lot of times, someone in the shadows. I do however feel bad for all the people that actually get duped into believing it and go on in the streets and get themselves hurt or worse because someone else convinced them its the right thing to do.
As far as Putin goes... he's like the only real opposition against the West. You gotta respect that. Sure, he's making this interesting and people will get hurt, as they already have but he's standing his ground. I honestly believed he wouldn't lift a finger on this one. He'd let Ukraine do what it's majority does and then be truly cruel and cut off their gas supply in the winter. That would have been a message received loud and clear. Also... Putin up for Nobel Prize on Peace... yeah, first of of all Nobel Prize hasn't had credibility in a while. And Obama got Nobel Prize for Peace while they were still heavily in the Middle East. So really, now is the perfect time for dear Vlad to get his.
As far as Ukraine goes... dude, there is nothing good about the EU. Only someone who isn't the EU can think there is. I pity that poor fellow. We were foolish once and we've been the EU for a while now and we still haven't seen the whole deal. Now, as far as protests go, somebody is always fueling that. It starts somewhere, with someone, and a lot of times, someone in the shadows. I do however feel bad for all the people that actually get duped into believing it and go on in the streets and get themselves hurt or worse because someone else convinced them its the right thing to do.
As far as Putin goes... he's like the only real opposition against the West. You gotta respect that. Sure, he's making this interesting and people will get hurt, as they already have but he's standing his ground. I honestly believed he wouldn't lift a finger on this one. He'd let Ukraine do what it's majority does and then be truly cruel and cut off their gas supply in the winter. That would have been a message received loud and clear. Also... Putin up for Nobel Prize on Peace... yeah, first of of all Nobel Prize hasn't had credibility in a while. And Obama got Nobel Prize for Peace while they were still heavily in the Middle East. So really, now is the perfect time for dear Vlad to get his.
Become the Crisis
COLD WAR II
WOOHOO
WOOHOO
Reyven Samoth
Grand Lord of the Tribe
US should have no involvement in this. We're broke, we've got, what... five or six other wars to be worrying about ending now(that don't get any media coverage anymore/ever)? As much as the government likes pushing for more military(Republicans with their "But terrorism!" and Democrats with their "Think of the children!"), eventually the economy is going to tank on us. The problem is it's hard to tell if it's a civil war or an invasion or help from this or that is needed because you can't trust anything you don't see with your own eyes first hand. Can't trust the news, everyone has their own spin on it.
Yep.
Also, that video omitted a number of important things. No mention of the U.S. funding and training of the revolt movement, the billionaires that were put in charge of Ukraine right now after the coup, and for the love of god, stop calling armed militants "protesters". Ugh.
And another thing, the Holodomor in Ukraine that starved 10 million people to death was primarily the responsibility of Lazar Kaganovich. He was an interesting character, and incidentally has a bit in common with the other leaders of the revolutionary movement... if you know what I mean.
Also, that video omitted a number of important things. No mention of the U.S. funding and training of the revolt movement, the billionaires that were put in charge of Ukraine right now after the coup, and for the love of god, stop calling armed militants "protesters". Ugh.
And another thing, the Holodomor in Ukraine that starved 10 million people to death was primarily the responsibility of Lazar Kaganovich. He was an interesting character, and incidentally has a bit in common with the other leaders of the revolutionary movement... if you know what I mean.
Janus Rogo
Shoot everything.
Dude, @[member="Count Aretine"], where are you getting this US Funded revolutionists from? The only place I'm seeing it is on websites that are also talking about how all this is possible via Alphabet Soup Agency mind control. The point is largely moot, now, with the Crimean Parliament voting to join the Russian Federation, and nationalizing Crimean state resources. Ukrainian soldiers are being told to deal with it, or get out. This was an invasion by a far, far worse country than our own. Anyone that thinks Crimea, or Ukraine is better off in Russia than the EU is off their rocker. It'll be amusing to watch the regions wealth dry up as their prevalent tourist industry tanks in the most spectacular fashion.
Reyven Samoth
Grand Lord of the Tribe
I love how people keep arguing whether it's better for Ukraine to join Russia or the EU, when the best bet would be for them to keep the hell out of both.
@[member="Janus Rogo"] Victoria Nuland's 5 billion in funding for Ukrainian "democracy"
You can also listen to Nuland and the Ambassador to Kiev talk about how they will control the new puppet government after the revolution here. This is where the context of the infamous "kark the EU" comment comes from.
You can also listen to Nuland and the Ambassador to Kiev talk about how they will control the new puppet government after the revolution here. This is where the context of the infamous "kark the EU" comment comes from.
Satara Hawk
Singing Mountain Ma'tra
@[member="Reyven Samoth"] That is a wonderful notion. Really. I wish I could think like that. Sadly, that's not how the world works anymore. Little fishies get eaten by the big fishies if they don't seek out protection and the big fishies have no soul. So, sadly, a side needs to be chosen. It's just a question who will hurt a country less.
Also, there's tons mentions of the US training various groups for years now, the Ukraine thing is just the most recent. We call them conspiracy theories until, you know, most of them turn out to be true.
Also, there's tons mentions of the US training various groups for years now, the Ukraine thing is just the most recent. We call them conspiracy theories until, you know, most of them turn out to be true.
Janus Rogo
Shoot everything.
Holy cow, the article, the headlines, and the actual conversation are so wildly different it's not even funny. It sounds like a mission planning brief, and it does reveal the idea of a plan to set up a "democratic", pro-EU government, but the rest of it? The article is taking bits and pieces of that whole conversation completely out of context. The investment of $5bil USD over 23 years of the nations independence is, relatively mind you, small change, especially given its location in Eastern Europe and the potential for its use as a staging ground in case of Russian aggression. And what's wrong with a pair of close colleagues, speaking in privacy, having a bit of coarse language? Jesus, it's like people are just hunting for the means to vilify the US and demonize the nations activities in anyway possible.
@[member="Satara Hawk"] The training of international forces is by no means a negative. It's giving those smaller fishes some teeth with which to fight back against the bigger fish. We've done it for years and though you rarely hear about it going well, that's merely a side-effect of the modern media showing you things that will catch your attention. No one cares about the good news, just the bad. Or what can be twisted/perceived as bad.
@[member="Satara Hawk"] The training of international forces is by no means a negative. It's giving those smaller fishes some teeth with which to fight back against the bigger fish. We've done it for years and though you rarely hear about it going well, that's merely a side-effect of the modern media showing you things that will catch your attention. No one cares about the good news, just the bad. Or what can be twisted/perceived as bad.
@[member="Satara Hawk"]
Off topic..... Is that.... Ralph Fiennes in your sig?
Off topic..... Is that.... Ralph Fiennes in your sig?
Janus Rogo
Shoot everything.
Pffft
Reyven Samoth
Grand Lord of the Tribe
I guess I'm just a hopeful who would like to see a movement where there's less and less "big fish" governments until there's little to no government at all.
@[member="Janus Rogo"] You asked for evidence that the U.S. is funding the revolt in Ukraine, I simply provided it. And that's not even including the USAID money given directly to the revolutionaries. So there is your answer.
Nothing is inherently wrong with using "coarse language" in a conversation with a colleague, but the conversation as a whole sort of destroys the notion that America has no culpability whatsoever in the revolt, and it completely ruins the Obama-Kerry mantra that Russia is acting completely without provocation and invading without pretext. "Yeah, invading without pretext is bad... unless we do it. Then it's okay. Democracy is good, but only if it's run by people we like."
Nothing is inherently wrong with using "coarse language" in a conversation with a colleague, but the conversation as a whole sort of destroys the notion that America has no culpability whatsoever in the revolt, and it completely ruins the Obama-Kerry mantra that Russia is acting completely without provocation and invading without pretext. "Yeah, invading without pretext is bad... unless we do it. Then it's okay. Democracy is good, but only if it's run by people we like."
Velok the Younger
When I Was A Young Warthog
Took a seminar a couple of years back on democratic change and revolutionary diffusion in the former Soviet republics. After all the readings and research, it all boiled down to this.
Western public and private interests consistent fund, train, facilitate, guide, place and advise regime change activism, including militant activism, throughout the region.
Except when there's an oil deal with the incumbent oligarchs. Then it's a lot of promises followed by backing out and letting the activists hang for it.
Western public and private interests consistent fund, train, facilitate, guide, place and advise regime change activism, including militant activism, throughout the region.
Except when there's an oil deal with the incumbent oligarchs. Then it's a lot of promises followed by backing out and letting the activists hang for it.
Janus Rogo
Shoot everything.
Truth.Alen Na'Varro said:
Davin Jusik
TIE Bomber LT- DREX
Lol, every time the US does anything xDJay Scott Clark said:You're new to this, aren't you.
Even the humanitarian stuff.
Davin Jusik
TIE Bomber LT- DREX
Lol, Anybody watch the Putin interview.
"We have no troops there."
Then the subsequent interview with soemone saying they're a Russian soldier in full uniform next to a APV xDDDD
"We have no troops there."
Then the subsequent interview with soemone saying they're a Russian soldier in full uniform next to a APV xDDDD