UK Votes To Leave the European Union

[Cyrus Tregessar]

There's a part of me, the red-blooded American part, that inexplicably still harbors a grudge against Britain for once being our overlord (and messing me up with fucking u's in random wourds) that is sort of excited at the possibility of watching the UK dissolve. Maybe it's the natural American distaste for everything involving aristocracy.

Scotland leaving? Check. North Ireland switching sides? Maybe? Republican Canada and Australia? It's a possibility.

But I am increasingly concerned about a world that seeks to divide and isolate itself when what has been thought to be the way forward for the past sixty years was global involvement and and a greater sense of human unity. It would be a shame to see the longest period of European peace ever be swept away by such archaic concepts as nationalism and xenophobia.

Not that I'm forecasting WW3, if that's going to break out anywhere it'll be in the Pacific (and even there it's so unlikely as to be not even worth considering) but regressive conservatism and appealing to the far right doesn't have a long track record of creating peace on earth, you know?

But seriously everyone talking about how 'vicious' the debate in the UK is and all the Americans are like 'what but your politicians are still being polite to each other.' Also I hear that Farage and Johnson are worthless assholes but come on ONE OF OUR NOMINEES IS TRUMP.

So thanks but no thanks, we'll keep the 'dogshit horrible politics' award here in 'MERICA WHERE IT BELONGS. JUST LIKE CANADA.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

I find it amusing and also surprising that people are invoking this argument that Britain leaving the EU equals more militarism and war. I mean, this really is just some petty fear-mongering on the most basic of levels. After all just look at Japan, which isn't part of any body like the EU, and see how quickly they've regressed back into militarism and war.. or not.

Let's not forget that the pursuit of left-wing fantasies in the 20th century has resulted in the worst human rights atrocities in recorded history... but no no, it's nationalism we need to worry about.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Ludolf Vaas"] one things that we was told, if we left the eu it would cause ww3. Did not believe it when it was in paper either.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

There is a huge political movement in Japan right now to amend their constitution specifically to allow for greater military presence and independence, so to a certain extant they are moving that way. Now granted it's being motivated by very valid real world threats and considerations, more specifically the increasing global presence of China and the increasing isolationist sentiment in the US.

My real point is that far-right nationalism has a pretty poor historical track record in promoting peace and prosperity. Maybe the UK's departure from the EU is motivated by the desire to be able to come to the negotiation table with greater independence and a greater devotion to arbitration, I don't know. I am far from an expert on the subject of politics, especially those in a foreign countries.

 

[Hype Darkwater]

I've got a bad feeling that this event is the beginning of the end for peace in Europe. I don't how much longer the EU can stand now. Isn't it ironic that Germany is now one of the top players in Europe? Again?

 

[Connor Harrison]

David Cameron is now out - Theresa May is in. The country's second only female Prime Minister.

LOTS of the old Government cabinet out too and fresh blood in.

Never seen so much of a shake up so soon done so quickly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

 

[Darth Veles]

"Brexit means Brexit, and we are going to make a success of it."

I really like her approach!

I wish Mrs May and the entire UK the best of luck.

 

[Ariealla Vareldi]

Only thing I'm going to say here is I'm actually a little... excited. This is something that's never happened before, a country leaving the EU, and honestly I'm quite interested to see what exactly it does to the UK in the long run. It doesn't seem the smartest move in the short term, of course, but it'll be interesting to watch everything as it goes on.

Who knows, maybe five or ten years from now we'll look back and realize it was the right move. Or Britain will try to make amends and we'll see if the EU is kind enough to even try to help stabilize a former member, or vindictive. Honestly, I'm not sure one way or another what I think is or isn't smart, I'm just fascinated to see the status quo change.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

There is a huge political movement in Japan right now to amend their constitution specifically to allow for greater military presence and independence, so to a certain extant they are moving that way. Now granted it's being motivated by very valid real world threats and considerations, more specifically the increasing global presence of China and the increasing isolationist sentiment in the US.

I am completely okay with this. I don't want the US to keep Japan as its vassal state for eternity. They should be in charge of their own national security.

My real point is that far-right nationalism has a pretty poor historical track record in promoting peace and prosperity.

What you call "far-right" nationalism was in fact the normal belief system in just about every country before the 20th century. Nationalism and a cohesive sense of identity is what made our societies great and is the natural state of human society. Abolishing borders and cucking for invaders is a 20th century phenomenon, along with the left's other abortive social experiments which resulted in untold millions of dead.

The founding fathers of our country were White nationalists by today's standards. I'd say they did a pretty good job.

 

[Davin Jusik]

[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]

Good on Japan. I'm sure their folk must hate having to rely on a country thousands of miles away for protection.

Pretty much with [member="Ludolf Vaas"] on this one. The whole idea of national identity and self determination being an inherently negative thing is something that corporations have twisted from what was originally far left communist internationalism type theory into some twisted mainstream interpretation that pushes their globalist agenda. Most of the opposition to moves like this originates from large media outlets owned by the largest corporations on the planet. Profits by multi nationals are at a huge section of it. They've co-opted leftist rhetoric without a lot of leftists even noticing.

 

[Cyrus Tregessar]

I've got a bad feeling that this event is the beginning of the end for peace in Europe. I don't how much longer the EU can stand now. Isn't it ironic that Germany is now one of the top players in Europe? Again?

The German military is in shambles because they've become almost entirely reliant on the US and protection offered by NATO. There are reasons to be concerned about lasting peace in Europe, but the only reason Germany should factor in is because of their total unwillingness to provide for their own defense. Which relates slightly to...

I am completely okay with this. I don't want the US to keep Japan as its vassal state for eternity. They should be in charge of their own national security.

Absolutely agreed. I fully support having at least one very reliable and strong ally in the region. But it's worth noting that 70 years on there is a big push to rearm and reassert their sovereignty in a rather martial way, though in this instance I believe it's quite justified. Nor is it unanimous, it's a very divisive policy being pursued by the current rather conservative government and generally opposed by the opposition parties and the younger generation.

What you call "far-right" nationalism was in fact the normal belief system in just about every country before the 20th century. Nationalism and a cohesive sense of identity is what made our societies great and is the natural state of human society.

Great is rather relative. I try my best to view the past with appropriate historical context but if you asked me what time I would prefer to live in I'm still going to say present day. There's nothing particular 'great' from a modern point of view about an Empire built on the backs of slaves, or the despicable hierarchy of master and servant in the middle ages, or the sense of majesty and pursuit of 'glory' that prompted children to wage wars that ruined countries.

Nothing about human civilization is 'natural,' the whole point is that we mastered nature, not the other way around. Survival of the fittest is a rather nasty way to run a society, so why feel confined by such rules? If humanity intends to ever be more than a tiny flash of irregularity in the history of this world it will need to stop worrying about whether such and such people own such and such bit of land.

The founding fathers of our country were White nationalists by today's standards. I'd say they did a pretty good job.

They did, but they also had some awful ideas. Adapting to meet the march of time hasn't exactly been easy, we saw the nation dissolve and tear itself apart to answer a question that really only has one answer. I don't believe that clinging to what we perceive as the glory of the past is the way forward.

 

[Ludolf Vaas]

The Empires you're quick to disparage were also single-handedly responsible for bringing wealth, civilization, and the best living standards known to man to the rest of the world. But you seem to be implying that we should abolish all borders and form one race of enlightened mocha people because:

>slavery
>hierarchy is bad, equality good
>child soldiers and wars

Well I'm interested to see how allowing in unlimited immigrants from third world races and cultures which don't share any of your values will achieve this goal.

Why not start by going to all the African and Middle Eastern countries which still practice slavery and oppressive hierarchies and work on breaking down their identity first. Remind them that they deserve to have their distinct cultures erased because their ancestors did bad things once.

Surely you're capable of applying your principles evenly, not just to White countries?

 

[sabrina]

[member="Connor Harrison"] I just can't believe Borris Johnson foreign minister

 

[Hype Darkwater]

[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]
Germany is rebuilding its army however, which America doesn't necessarily like. It doesn't give them as much control over Europe, which is why they opposed the EU in the first place, because it would create a rival power. But now they like it, because its a stand against Russia. And Germany is the richest of the European countries, along with the UK, and France. We keep ending up with these three having large financial, and inevitably, militaristic powers.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Hype Darkwater"] Germany want's an EU army according to papers.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/689306/Merkel-to-go-ahead-with-EU-army-following-Brexit-says-German-minister

 

[Hype Darkwater]

[member="sabrina"] Yup, of course they do, makes America somewhat nervous though. They like countries relying on them, especially when it comes to the military. I don't think Erdogan of Turkey even has full control of his army.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Hype Darkwater"] I think your right
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36809083

 

[Hype Darkwater]

[member="sabrina"]
Yeah, I just heard about this tonight. I'm sure the CIA is in the shadows. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[sabrina]

This just for a joke, don't take seriously, but it made me laugh and I thought I share.

 

[Sith Trooper]

The problem people do not seem to understand, perhaps out of some naive sense of "everyone has everyone else's interest at heart" idea, but German/French/etc leaders do not care if every British citizen died a slow painful death if it makes them more powerful and richer. The concept of the EU and UN is to have a small elite control more to get more money and more power, if you think the age of empires is over you do not know the world, instead of war and conquest the elite use these corrupt systems that give people the illusion of a say but are just sheep.