Tweak the focus of the Map Game

[Arage Bao]

The Map Game​

Love it or hate it.

It has been the centerfold of the Chaos experience since its inception. The main system that drives the Major Factions forward, allows for the expansion and claiming of pieces of the Galaxy and the only way to put forward your stake to the iconic worlds of the Star Wars Universe.

On the flip-side it has been the source of much frustration. Plenty of toxicity. Burnouts that rise up to the roof.

Throughout the years Chaos has tried to improve and revamp the system. For most of that time factions expanded by one-shot 100 post dominions for single worlds. Then we were introduced to 110 post dominions that allowed two worlds. 150 posts that filled in the entire hex, but was vulnerable to a rebellion.

Right now that has been cut in half to 50 posts. With the limit of 3 (or less or a bit more depending on your faction mandate) dominions in total per month.

That makes sense.

Dominions are a huge time sink, pulling in a lot of posts, attention, time and that causes its own issues. Here is the thing though… they aren’t really fun. We do them, because we want our factions to succeed.

Of course there will be exceptions. People loving the map game and wanting more of it.

But I am here to offer a suggestion of a sort.

Let’s replace the dominion system with a passive expansion per major faction each month.​

Now hold on, let me explain.

Major Factions won’t just get to passively gain x amount of hexes each month without having to work for it. Don’t worry. Instead, in this proposal, the shift of focus moves away from these mechanical expansion threads towards activity faction membership actually wants to do.

A Major Faction gets a choice each month to show their activity (and through it the justification for the continued passive expansion).

This could be:

• 
  Codex submissions. Locations that expand on the territories of your faction. Lore that elaborates and fills in the blanks of your nation. Unit subs. New planetoids in your territory. Sky is the limit.
  
• 
  Faction threads. This can be anything. Galas, war games, planetary expeditions, internal rebellions, anything.
  
• 
  Rebellions?
  
• 
  Invasions?
  
• 
  Skirmishes?
  

X amount of threads, submissions will allow a passive expansions of y. Up to three! (or maybe 4, with mandates in mind) So the rate of the expansion won’t change…. Just the way we accomplish it as a community.

Factions will still need to work for their expansion.

But instead of constant one-off races to x amount of posts, this will allow factions to focus on the sort of story and threads and activity that they like to do in their free time. Because at the end of the day this is a hobby.

The more options we give our community the better in my opinion.

Potential benefits to this idea:

• 
  People get to actually have fun during their hobby. Picking the things they want to do that helps the faction they care about.
  
• 
  It incentives to expand on the lore and setting of Chaos and its Major Factions.
  

Potential negatives to the idea:

• 
  Figure out a way to be fair about the amount of activity the factions do. Dominions are pretty cut and dry. Do fifty posts or more and that nets you the hex. It is less obvious for these less metric-focused pieces of creation.
  

Counter points to potential counters.

• 
  X person actually likes doing these territorial expansion! And people will still be able to do that in faction threads. Writing their story at their own pace, their own time, making it as big or as detail-oriented as they want to. With no need to pace their own posts, because of post spam caution.
  

I have purposefully avoided adding too many rigid details to define the end result of the system. I have done this, because usually that invites people to start homing in hard on these little details, rather than discuss the overarching idea. So, I am aware that there are still open questions here, but I am more interested to see the opinion of the Chaos community here.

Is this something that makes sense? Something that solves issues they might have with the way the map game has been done up until now? Etc, etc.

--

Thoughts? Considerations? Suggestions? Discuss away!

 

[Darth Carnifex]

I like it.

 

[Tefka]

I’m sorry I’ve offended u with my goal oriented roleplay

 

[Lucius Draugh]

This is better than I thought it'd be.

 

[Mythos]

YES I love that idea and the hexes you net your faction coincide with the activity you create and locations of threads! I can see it ramping up activity in all sectors and we could still have dominions as a way of like guaranteeing that one hex if it's done good and awesome. I can also see this bringing our the Campaign threads more which i have always wanted.

The Story of Dominions for me a lot of times don't make a lot of sense when conquering an area of space. By replacing it we can see conquest and territorial expansion make more sense and be more plausible, realistic even. [member="Daro Tarsi"]

 

[Darth Ferus]

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Here is the thing though… they aren’t really fun.

I humbly disagree. CIS makes their doms extremely fun. We've had everything from a musical dom to a reality show dom and a bunch of other doms that you don't always see, all splayed in between doms that were "regular" doms, and doms that had the personal stories of many of our characters weaved into them.

CIS rocks when it comes to dom stories.

If a faction is not enjoying their doms, perhaps they should turn to the people creating them (or offer them a hand. Major Factions staff tend to work pretty hard on keeping and encouraging faction activity in most cases, some of the bestest things happen when the faction members join in on the planning). Also keep in mind that 3-4 doms are not a requirement. You can still expand with a single dom a month.

Codex submissions. Locations that expand on the territories of your faction. Lore that elaborates and fills in the blanks of your nation. Unit subs. New planetoids in your territory. Sky is the limit.

Codex submissions do not show faction activity. There are a tons of codex submissions that are laying there being all pretty without a single soul that actually uses the locations, the NPCs, etc.

Rebellions? Invasions? Skirmishes?

All three are major salt mines. If fun is your main concern with the current map game set up, making writers do more of these three will take much of it away with the drama that ensues from this every single time.

Dominions are pretty cut and dry. Do fifty posts or more and that nets you the hex. It is less obvious for these less metric-focused pieces of creation.

Untrue, I have seen RPJs more than once request actual objective completion in addition to the minimal post requirement.
I've also seen factions had in doms with less than 50 posts.

Is this something that makes sense? Something that solves issues they might have with the way the map game has been done up until now? Etc, etc. -- Thoughts? Considerations? Suggestions? Discuss away!

No.

I get the will to change the map game up. The system is far from perfect at present. However, I think your suggestions would actually make it worse rather than improve it, by adding work to the already slow codex, by actively encouraging threads that cause salt, and by being overly ambiguous. For example, what's considered active? If a faction has 600 members registered to it spread over 20 writers, how many threads/posts count as active? How many minimum writers per thread? These are things that already already checked almost every month.

That said, I see no reason for something that incorporates some of this into the existing map game. For example; staff can award a single faction per month (or per quarter) with a single passive hex, and the decision will be based on the faction's activity outside of private threads (so no playing favorites you guise).

 

[Jsc]

Here is the thing though… they aren’t really fun. We do them, because we want our factions to succeed.

Mm. Not sure I agree with this. However, I come from a time when PvE players complained about not contributing to a faction. Doms really gave our less PvP minded people a place to prosper with very few restrictions. However, if your faction has zero PvE minded people? Yeah. I can see how Doms would be annoying. You want PvP, and you want it to count towards expansion. That actually makes a lot of sense to me.

Figure out a way to be fair about the amount of activity the factions do.

1. Codex and Factory Subs seems gimmicky to me. Especially with Tef's "approved-until-its-not" policy coming out SoonTM. So I'd be hesitant to embrace subs as activity. Especially since they are mostly constructed solo. Not a multiplayer activity. Ignore these.
2. Skirmishes makes sense. PvP that counts towards expansion. I like this. 50 posts and boom. Easy.
3. Rebellions are already working correctly. No change. Ignore.
4. Faction threads need only conform to the Dominion formatting to be considered anyway. 50 posts of "Faction" stuff and it's basically a dom anyway. Nah. Ignore.

2 cents. Skirmishes show real promise with this idea. Everything else is either a solo activity or working as intended. Cool suggestion.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Skirmishes show real promise with this idea.

I believe skirmishes would have to be redone for it to support any sort of change in the map game. Presently, skirmishes are mostly just PvP without map related consequences (and often without any consequences in general).

 

[Jaron Lesan]

Yeah I think if doms aren’t fun then your creative team isn’t making them fun. In the CIS we just rocked 3 doms all above 50 posts in 2.5 weeks. Our writers that want personal story are getting that also.

All us veterans are gonna shudder... buuuuut faction’s don’t invade each other much anymore. I get there is a lot of salt and drama with them no matter what we do, but the map game isn’t really a map game anymore. It’s a try and prove you’re still active before the admins vote to recall you game.

We should be asking why that is? Faction staff? Board staff? The mechanics stink? There are no longer any real incentives? Or is this community just not interested in the game anymore?

 

[Jsc]

I believe skirmishes would have to be redone for it to support any sort of change in the map game. Presently, skirmishes are mostly PvP without map related consequences (and often without any consequences in general).

Yep. 100% right.

Still. Would be pretty cool if both factions to skirmish were awarded a free dom at 100 posts or something. Well. A dude can dream anyway. Lulz.

 

[Amea Virou]

your creative team isn’t making them fun

I forget the part where the creation of fun is the responsibility of the faction administration.

It's not. They administrate and deliberate, they're not your personal dungeon masters.

We should be asking why that is? Faction staff? Board staff? The mechanics stink? There are no longer any real incentives? Or is this community just not interested in the game anymore?

That is literally part of what this idea proposes to solve.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Jaron Lesan, on 22 Sept 2018 - 9:45 PM, said: your creative team isn’t making them fun I forget the part where the creation of fun is the responsibility of the faction administration. It's not. They administrate and deliberate, they're not your personal dungeon masters.

At the most basic level, faction administration (admins + creative team) are supposed to maintain and/or encourage faction activity. Unless resorting to blackmail, kidnapping, and holding guns to writers' heads, this is mostly by ensuring the people in the faction have fun. If you've discovered a different way to do this I would love to know, since I may have been putting my focus in the wrong place this entire time, and can improve. Otherwise, this is just a debate in semantics. If faction members aren't having fun, faction members aren't going to be active

 

[LT-137]

I’m honestly all for anything that would change the map game up. Yes, there are people that like the way things are now, and while they revel in their blissful little bubble - there’s a lack of enjoyment that comes from posting to something pretty cut and dry. Again, Yes, you can spice things up by making each dominion unique; like making it musical themed or fighting over coffee or tea - but not everyone likes that.

While I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, I’ve found that Dominions, no matter what thematic spin or special quirk is attached to them, still boils down to an episodic adventure that ultimately doesn’t sate my desire for a meaningful story. I like lengthy threads, as evidenced by my post sizes, and relish the flash burn of skirmishes and collaborative combat threads. It gets the blood running to read through, and write a post where my character can truly be himself. Seeing Khonsu here running around singing for no reason is utterly petulant in my mind, and would make writing the post more difficult than necessary as I’d hate myself the entire time, but with that being said I’m not throwing shade at anyone who likes that sort of content; You do you.

However, when it comes to this idea - which is meant for the site, rather than any One faction - I think it’d be a great idea to tack on in addition of dominions for expansions. So, those that like dominions have that ability to keep on keeping on, while other factions can go about the process in a different manner. Heck, they could even shake things up and have Campaign tags count towards expansion for a period, before switching back to Dominion tags and so forth. Therefore, I’d like to see options added into the expansion game - as I feel it’d shake things up on the whole and make them entertaining, rather than throwing fifty strands of spaghetti against the wall and hoping they’ll stick.

 

[Jaron Lesan]

I forget the part where the creation of fun is the responsibility of the faction administration.

It's not. They administrate and deliberate, they're not your personal dungeon masters.

A faction staff that doesn’t create activity finds they have a dead faction, so pretty sure they are responsible to drive what encourages people to post. Collaboration is great, but the staff are responsible to execute. If they don’t execute then nothing gets done. This has been our system in the CIS and when the staff dungeon masters and drives doms... well I think the results speak for themselves. When the staff doesn’t... they suffer.

That is literally what part of the idea proposes to solve.

Without actually asking the questions. So let’s ask them. What I know... dominions are not the problem. Disengaged writers are.

 

[LT-137]

[member="Jaron Lesan"] - No offence mate, but that mindset of the "Staff will Guide us" isn't good for long-term stability. What happens when your staff are taken out of commission, or are burnt out from carrying everyone? The faction flounders, and people start looking to go elsewhere. So, while your faction may be presently blessed with activity - it won't last with that stance.

And touching on your last point - Dominion's are the problem that cause Writers to be disengaged.

 

[Madison M. Maxwell IV]

I think these are stellar ideas to improve the system. It allows for genuinely different types of 'activity' to expand-- Believe it or not, or understandably, not everyone enjoys the whole Dominion-grind-every-month, even if some do, and it's cool it works for you but it just doesn't work for, say, me --and definitely keeps things from being stagnant.

I can't say I have any suggestions for improvement, but I'll follow the thread to see where the discussion goes.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Jaron Lesan - No offence mate, but that mindset of the "Staff will Guide us" isn't good for long-term stability. What happens when your staff are taken out of commission, or are burnt out from carrying everyone? The faction flounders, and people start looking to go elsewhere. So, while your faction may be presently blessed with activity - it won't last with that stance.

When that happens, there are other staffers. Staffers get replaced pending a variety of reasons. Staffers don't have to guide, but in most cases, they are de facto, the guiders, leaders, whatever you wanna call it. CIS is blessed with activity because we push for the activity, because our staff team encourages it, and because we work with our members. Will it die? Eventually, all Major Factions must die. Will it be because of our stance? Hah, no.

 

[Jaron Lesan]

[member="Khonsu Amon"] and our solution to that has been a massive staff. At any given time we have at least two or three unable to post or drive activity. Funny enough the faction steps up because... guiding is different than having to be the ones massively active.

Anyhow... to quote one of my favorite authors. “Everything rises and falls on leadership.”

Another point I see...

We have a writer base looking for more and more personal story over map game, and as I have approached it, any thread can be a place to achieve that. What makes doms and larger threads hard is the fast pace and most looking for in depth story I have noticed tend to be slower writers with some exception to that as well.

I also think another question that would be fair... how many are disengaged because they’ve already written a Dominion for Ord Mantell 26 times? Like I say, I don’t think dominions are the problem. I think it’s helping to diagnose a deeper issue. Because let’s be honest, the factions that burn out aren’t even doing faction threads or skirmishes. Which I think goes back to something that @Scherezade said...

No one is requiring a faction to do 3 doms a month to stay active. Who determines a factions philosophy, who fixes that? Faction staff. They’re gonna make the call, and as you’ve said... people vote with their feet.

Clearly we all want to see more activity... I just see the answer as being much simpler than an overhaul.

 

[LT-137]

[member="Scherezade deWinter"] - There are always other potential candidates for staffers - You're correct - but not all of them are always going to have the same ideas as those that they're replacing. Every replacement eventually dilutes the pool, and brings that looming Recall notice ever closer - like the Sword of Damocles on a thinning thread. As admirable as it is to believe that your faction won't perish because of that stance, it's not entirely factual or grounded in empirical logic.

[member="Jaron Lesan"] - Mate, you're basically spinning your own wheels at this point. If you've read my previous posts in this thread, you'll see that I'm pushing for a supplementary system. Supplementary means in addition to. I'm not saying that dominions should be replaced by an overhauled system. I'm saying that they're pretty cut and dry, and that it would be nice to have something else to help contribute to the map game.

_________​

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EDIT: Bringing this thread back on point, I think having an additional route to expand one's sphere of influence on Chaos' map would be ideal. Yes, it's a point I've stated before and is starting to become stale - as I hate repeating myself. lol

Dominion's work for those that like the idea. That's fine. There are those that don't like Dominions because of their goal-orientated and episodic nature. That's fine too. However, I don't believe they should be the sole way for a faction to expand it's borders on the map. I saw that there was mention of skirmishes and making them actually count for something - rather than being a biweekly annoyance. So, why not have them count towards the map game if they transpire on a neutral/unclaimed hex? X amount of posts, and firm RP'd control of the system would allow for it to be claimed. I added in the last bit, as Skirmish threads are ideally open to anyone, meaning that any rival faction wanting to mess with the claiming faction - should have the opportunity to destabilize the planet/system/sector through clandestine warfare.

The same ideas could be applied to Campaigns - by making them as PvE-based Invasions that would net a Major Faction a swathe of territory. (No more than a Hex, Obviously.) It'd be more interesting than "posting fifty times" and hoping for the best. You still have objectives to complete, as any military campaign should, however it adds to the thematic immersion - allowing for someone like me to get aboard the hype-train and post like a mad-man (school depending.) lol