Suggestion "The Domino Effect"

[Darlyn Excron]

A possible balance to keep the mandate from allowing a faction to potentially just, zerg rush down any other small newbie faction into oblivion just cause:

1. The capital hex of other major factions cannot be the target of an invasion unless they are the only remaining hex available.

Effectively trading the ability to rush right through to a capital, potentially, for the ability to massively reduce their other influence cloud in far less time.

This is just a concern for much much smaller factiojs than the one's the mandate is kind of aimed at, but there should still be a consideration for possible abuse of the mandate to bully smaller factions.

then again maybe it's not even a possible problem, nor do I really think most people here would just bully a small faction for the fun of it. But, as far as treating things like a game goes, the "early game" should still be considered?

I kinda like the idea Ryv , I just wanna make sure it's fully fleshed out and can't really be abused like backwards momentum in Mario 64.

 

[Ryv]

A possible balance to keep the mandate from allowing a faction to potentially just, zerg rush down any other small newbie faction into oblivion just cause:

1. The capital hex of other major factions cannot be the target of an invasion unless they are the only remaining hex available.

I like this, I edit into the suggestion.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

Vora Kaar Kascalion Giedfield Darth Voyance Darth Empyrean

Each of these individuals is at the head of their own group. Only one of them is an NIO writer.

It's difficult to pay attention to the entire board. However, if you're gonna zero in on something that isn't the suggestion, I'll help correct the issue for you.

I like you Ryv, dont get me wrong, but thinking the site doesn't know that 3 of those 4 names are definitely apart of "The Boyz" is wack. 3 of those 4 factions is also stacked with only The Boyz writers.

Getting semantic on what consists an nio writer is silly when the point was clear.

Make your point how you want to make it, but please don't tag me in it next time. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

Also, idea is pretty cool if not a little complicated for mandates. Im down to see it.

 

[Enlil]

Many such cases.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

Thats real rich coming from you Darth Empyrean

 

[Ryv]

Let's uh, keep to the suggestions, boys.

 

[Tefka]

I put it up for critique on the idea, not to discuss the site's culture or why people who don't want to play the map shouldn't be a major. Let's stay on topic.

Hahaha, my man.

On the topic of your actual suggestion, I can tell you it hurts me deep in my soul to spend a month fighting everyone and everything to get rules passed to turn Chaos on it's head for war, and have a suggestion come out that basically says "eh, it doesn't hit hard enough."

Inb4 every successful Annihilation just causes a map reset.

 

[Enlil]

If only Tefka . If only.

Map reset is the new culture.

 

[Ryv]

Hahaha, my man.

On the topic of your actual suggestion, I can tell you it hurts me deep in my soul to spend a month fighting everyone and everything to get rules passed to turn Chaos on it's head for war, and have a suggestion come out that basically says "eh, it doesn't hit hard enough."

Inb4 every successful Annihilation just causes a map reset.

Like I said in early posts, lot of what's been put into place is bound to shake up the map and bring new approaches to the game. Just hitting three hexes, and potentially four with contagious is pretty powerful.

I'm just getting ahead of the game and putting another potential idea forward for the future. Since you've seen it, it might be something you remember for the future.

 

[Jsc]

Ryv - If you were Staff, I think you and Tef would vote similarly.

Oops. I wasn't supposed to say that in public.

Naughty me.

 

[Lunafreya Solidor]

Regarding the idea.
This is a very interesting and creative idea, one which I would most certainly agree this concerning its stakes. However, wouldn't it be also an advantage for the ones focused entirely on war posting/duels/attackers in general?

However, I'm down for chaotic situations and I like how well-made you made this.

Ryv

 

[Tefka]

I dig it, it's just massively premature to ask for it. We'll see what happens in the Spring, and adjust accordingly.

 

[Darth Prazutis]

I profoundly disagree with the further modifications of invasions.

We've already expanded and made them stronger to compensate for the ease in which dominions are being done, and they've barely been out for long. I don't think it's necessary, or needed to create a system that allows maximum destruction of map territory, with the continued justification being dominions are too easy, and the same justification i've been listening to for seven years when it comes to anything map game modification. "If you don't wanna play, gtfo". When you are on the map you are by definition apart of the map game. But everyone gets too focused on the game of hexes and the "cred" that I keep hearing about attributed to a faction. Hexes aren't a draw for people when it comes to joining a community. It's the presentation of their product, what image they put out to the community and a quality aesthetic to draw them in, secondly representation who is apart of their faction and how they carry themselves often determines how the faction is seen. Third is climate and how comfortable people feel within a community. As a vet of this site I can tell you how big your map cloud is doesn't mean anything, people can choose to ignore your story, the narrative and what people choose to adhere to is all their choice. Now this doesn't mean we throw the whole book out the window because "why not, it doesn't matter".

As a community we get transfixed on the idea of winning the map game and what our ideas of winning are be it destroying our intended enemy, reclaiming lost territory, or what have you. I've seen it happen many times. A faction makes it big starts a fight with another pushes their territory and lore out, and "wins", only to die because their entire narrative was being unknowingly driven upon that purpose. In the end their winning didn't matter beyond the people who stayed here over the years to remind new members who won't really care about your prior bragging accomplishments. Communication and Collaboration between writers is far more important than the modification of barely implemented rules to force parties to a table, or threaten factions.

Suggestion?

Let the rules stay as they are. We don't need maximum damage for minimal effort within invasions. You can already hit three, possibly four hexes at once. Any further modifications I personally believe would only serve to massively unbalance the map game further, and in my opinion would require the modification of dominions to counter balance it. My reasoning is this. A lot of talk I've seen has been around the big clouds of influence on the map surrounding making invasions more powerful, that's what it boils down to. When you unbalance a system it's mandated for everyone. Beyond a new faction grace period there's nothing that stops you in this system from stomping 5-6 hex faction into oblivion in just a few short months. It might allow the easy destruction of big factions but that's all greater consequences are good for, and these won't always be used for "purely story reasons" either, speaking as someone who has been around the block to see countless wars here, and has heard all the stories.

All in all your first drive should be on the story first and how all involved can have the most fun. I've always said when you have proper communication and collaboration thats what separates Endgame caliber content, from the alternative. New members will respect the history you put out if your seen as a reasonable, relaxed writer or group who is flexible and easy to work with and good to be around. That's what makes you a winner on the map. We don't need more powerful invasions for that, just kindness and compromise.

 

[Ryv]

I dig it, it's just massively premature to ask for it. We'll see what happens in the Spring, and adjust accordingly.

Understood.

I didn't know if there was a better place to put it than suggestions. I thought by putting in the OP I wouldn't expect to see anything like this hit the board, it would help avoid the potential for members of the staff to feel like their work has gone unappreciated.

I am excited to see what the recent changes bring.

 

[Ryv]

Ryv - If you were Staff, I think you and Tef would vote similarly.

Oops. I wasn't supposed to say that in public.

Naughty me.

I think Tefka sees the map as his baby. So, I imagine him seeing people interested in monkeying with the rules surrounding it and approaching it competitively would make him happy to some degree. It is the primary pull to Chaos after all. Chance are, we have similar views on a lot when it comes to this site. At least, when it comes to the map.

Regarding the idea.
This is a very interesting and creative idea, one which I would most certainly agree this concerning its stakes. However, wouldn't it be also an advantage for the ones focused entirely on war posting/duels/attackers in general?

However, I'm down for chaotic situations and I like how well-made you made this.

Ryv

Yes.

At its core, the map is a game designed to be played. There are five ways to approach it currently.

1. Diplomacy threads - Which ultimately feel less than stellar, but can have massive payout. See the merger of the Core Federation and the High Republic as an example.
2. Dominions - Very insular, PvE focused. The Bryn'adul have used these for PvP heavy stories to great effect. Easy way to expand territory, but it is mostly insular, which isn't good.
3. Junctions - Not insular dominions. Already better.
4. Rebellions - These are cool. Allowing minors to spring into the action through joint storytelling with other factions is ideal.
5. Invasions - The meat and potatoes of the map. This is one of two ways a faction can force another faction to acknowledge its narrative and break the insular nature of so many factions. This is important. In a community where people are going to form their cliques and not want to leave them, this is necessary.

The point of this idea is to stimulate more approaches to the map. The recent rules update did amazing with that, so as Tefka mentioned, it is premature, but I wanted it out there anyway. I

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a mechanic that favors one type of faction over another. Grasp the Void was an example of a mandate that a faction like the CIS very easily could've benefitted from. They have a lot of enthusiastic writers that enjoy the stories their faction writes. Something like that wouldn't be as good for an up and coming major like FO. Or at least I think, they may actually have the activity base. Please don't flame me Jae.

With that said, mandates should create diverse playstyles. When you and a group of friends sit down to play a game, it'll be a lot more boring if everyone takes the exact same build path. It's why in D&D, people discuss party composition so no one steps on anyone's toes and you get a diverse game. Diversity, whether it be in a game, the workplace, or in a community, is very important.

I snip snip.

I'm gonna work through this piece by piece, cause there sure is a lot of content here.

Second Paragraph:

• Like I said in the OP, the new system and rules have only just been implemented. I wouldn't expect this to see the light of day for awhile, if at all. I just wanted the criticism to see whether or not this can be worked in a way that it fits Chaos.
• "If you don't wanna play, gtfo" - The map isn't a requirement. No one forces you to be involved in it. If you choose to do so, there are going to be things that happen you may or may not like. I'm not telling you to gtfo. I'm telling you if you're gonna sign up to play the game, then play the game. Don't get upset when you roll the natural one and critically fail. Shit happens, it's part of the experience. As for the justification? It's the only justification anyone needs to use. If you want to be involved on the map and feel like a major player, then you have to deal with everything that entails. You can't cherry-pick what you do and don't like to maximize the experience. Going back to the natural one earlier? You don't like that rule in D&D? Kick it. Other games, such as the map, don't allow that. It is a lot easier for people to approach a defined system, read the rules, and begin than it is to decide what rules you do and don't want. That comes with time and experience. Most people on Chaos aren't gonna stick around long enough to care.
• I don't think anyone is caught up in the "cred" of owning a bunch of hexes on a website. I think it is an easy draw in for new players if they see the words "JEDI" or "SITH" next to a color that showcases one of the largest territories on the map, but I don't think it's all about cred. I use the word game a lot, cause it's relevant here. This is a site to write stories. The map is the game mechanic used to represent the larger stories being told by majors. People want to see their stories impact the map, cause as I mentioned in the OP, it's a quantifiable success. People like to know they're doing great work. Not enough people uplift one another in this community for a good old VICTORY to ever be obsolete.

Third Paragraph:

• This is a fanfic site for Star WARS. Wars are a big part of the universe we love. That's why people come to this site and end up enthralled in the map. Are you gonna tell me the Clone Wars wasn't an epic story? What about the dogged fight between the Rebellion and the Galactic Emprie? Those were wars. Hella cool ones. The reason a lot of factions end up wrapped up in the eradication mindset is due to the universe we write in. Well, at least ICly. In what sane world would the Galactic Alliance ever allow the SITH EMPIRE to survive if they can wipe them? How many genocides have the sith committed? How many worlds destroyed? Lives lost? These two groups are diametrically opposed. They are going to fight until one is gone cause that's what makes sense narratively. You don't want that? Maybe make your government shadow-ruled by Sith and never let it see the light of day. Don't take actions ICly that are going to make a bunch of other factions on the board look left, look right, and decide you're crazy.
• Saying their writing doesn't matter in the end is incorrect. You wanna know why? Cause those people who just wrote that war and won are gonna remember it for many years to come. Maybe even the rest of their lives. We enjoy games because they're memorable. We love stories for the same reason. Maybe the next generation of writers on Chaos won't care what the Old Heads did. Doesn't matter. Those Old Heads who loved their stories won't love 'em any less.
• Collaboration and communication are important, yes.

Fifth Paragraph:

• The opening sentence implies people who are planning and writing invasions are putting in minimal effort. Is that true for you and TSE staff? Cause I know it wasn't true for GA staff with how we approached planning Korriban. Our team put hours of work into a cool story and an interesting approach. And I know NIO is the same cause I helped plan all of their invasions up until Bastion. It was never minimal effort for us then either. We came up with cool ideas, like the split attack on Mygeeto and Muunilist, and Kyber Dark. Those are defining moments narratively for a lot of characters. That wasn't minimal effort. And I think it's pretty comedic that you'd even suggest that seeing all the amazing stories told this year through invasions.
• In my suggestion, the idea doesn't just start on nuking 5-6 hexes. You need to ramp it up through not one, but two invasions. You start weaker than everyone else, then after winning you're on other folk's level. After that second win? Now you're finally on contagious assault levels of power. So, after THREE wins, likely about 3-4 months worth of writing, you hit ULTIMATE POWER. This is the point where you're cloud breaking nearly every invasion because you've beaten the faction you're fighting to a point where they should narratively not be capable of just contesting every action as if they haven't taken repeated Ls. Know what happens when you get knocked down a lot in D&D? You use hit dice, cleric uses their spells. You're using resources. When those resources are depleted, you're weaker for it.
• A lot of the rest of this paragraph is what-ifs and conjecture from experience. Everyone's experiences are different, so there isn't much to say on that end.
• EDIT: Somehow forgot to engage the mention of reworking dominions. As it stands, you can do three dominions and a junction a month (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). In that case, you're getting four territories, and all of these threads are a lot easier to approach and write than an invasion. If you can't do all four, you only get three, which is unfortunate. However, I'm gonna link the mandate changes here and point out Grasp the Void. With that, if how my understanding of the dominion + junctions rules work, you're getting upwards of six hexes a month. The minimum amount of posts you need to write at that point is 350. Korriban and Dantooine both had more posts than that. Both threads saw more effort put in, in order to get less territory. You can argue that it had multiple parties involved, but nothing stops you from doing the same in your dominions. Get more factions in there, be less insular. Those 350 posts will be a lot easier split five ways. The current rules already have something in place to make dominions stronger. Just dom the right territories to strengthen your cloud.

Sixth Paragraph:

• This is a good closer cause it suggests writers be kind to one another. I agree with this mentality.
• Writers don't have to stop being kind cause they're winning or losing, however. You can be sportsmanlike in either situation and maintain open communication and keep up the collaboration if you remember it is just a game and ultimately has no bearings on your life.
• Story is important. But you can have a great story and a great game at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Tefka]

I think Tefka sees the map as his baby. So, I imagine him seeing people interested in monkeying with the rules surrounding it and approaching it competitively would make him happy to some degree. It is the primary pull to Chaos after all. Chance are, we have similar views on a lot when it comes to this site. At least, when it comes to the map.