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The Case for Minor Factions and Their Ability to Rebel

Hey people!

As the rules currently stand, this is how things are right now:
  1. Major factions can dom any hex that isn't within the influence cloud of another major faction.
  2. Minor factions can theoretically sit on any hex.
  3. Major factions can dom hexes that have minor factions on them.
  4. Minor factions can only initiate a rebellion to try to keep the hex neutral if this is the major faction's third or fourth dominion of the month.

This puts active minor factions in a pickle. If the major faction takes the hex they are on as a first or second dominion, the minor faction can't do anything but accept it. Additionally, there are mandates that will keep the minor faction from being able to rebel even if this was the third dominion. This boils down to minor factions not having the tools to keep hexes they're on neutral, which means a huge damper in their IC options, whether they are building towards becoming major, or intending on remaining small. It's one thing when your attempt to keep a hex neutral doesn't work IC, it's quite another when you just have to accept it without having the chance of even trying to do anything about it, or having to wait months or even years of OOC time for the major faction to get a recall notice.

So essentially, what I would like to suggest is simple - remove the clause for rebellions being only possible when it's the third or fourth dominion of the month. Give minor factions the option to rebel within 10 days of the neutral hex they are on getting dom'd.

This won't really change much. We all know that the vast majority of the minor factions turn to dust. But it will give that fraction of them that have the potential to either be amazing minor faction, or build towards a major faction, a better chance at defending a neutral hex.

And besides, neutral hexes are awesome :cool:
 
Totally A New Member
Writer
A friend of mine says minor factions should get minor attention, however they're arguably the strongest feature of our Chaos game.

1. They're the gate to Major Factions.
2. You can have, or be a part of, infinite minor factions.
3. They are the first step in bringing people together and offer boundless creativity.
4. They shouldn't interact with the map game, but this monthly "make minor factions mo' powerful" resulted in Minor Factions getting a say (Rebellions) in the map game, which permeates through all other rulesets (Flashpoints, Dominions).
5. Minor Factions outweigh Major Factions 100:1. They are the strongest source of community interaction and creativity. For every Major Faction a character is in, the likelihood they're in one or more Minor Factions is very, very high.

I understand reaching for the sky, and I understand innovation, we should always strive for more and better. But... we need to remember what Minor Factions are, and their place in the pyramid.

They're the foundation, not the end-game. The entire game could get trampled by the sheer weight of Minor Factions, so it's this humble guest's opinion that they're currently at their strongest and need more nerfs, if anything.
 
Definitely Not Tefka said:
The entire game could get trampled by the sheer weight of Minor Factions
Minor factions can't expand any sort of influence cloud on the map, and their inability to do dominions means there are many resources they'll never be able to attain. How would enabling them to rebel in the case of a first and second dominion on their neutral hex trample the game in any way?
 
[member="Scherezade deWinter"]
Do you have any understanding how many rebellions that would be each month? Since anyone can create a minor faction, a single writer could spin up a half dozen and bog down that many major factions every single month with a relentless tide of spam rebellions which would need to be replied to, judged, and would ultimately do nothing because the major faction could just redominion them the next month.

It'd be an unending mobius strip of rebellions until every major faction stopped expanding or the RPJ team combusted due to the amount of judgements needing rendering.

There's a good reason that the rules are the way they are. However, I encourage you to try and find a compromise which is more reasonable and practical.
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
Do you have any understanding how many rebellions that would be each month? Since anyone can create a minor faction, a single writer could spin up a half dozen and bog down that many major factions every single month with a relentless tide of spam rebellions which would need to be replied to, judged, and would ultimately do nothing because the major faction could just redominion them the next month.
Yes. A very few. By my estimation after following threads closely for the past few months, my estimation is that the new load will be less than a thread a month, because most minor factions don't bother with rebellions even when one is optional to them. And while it's true that anyone can create a minor faction, the minor faction has to exist for a certain amount of time prior to the beginning of the dom in order to be eligible for a rebellion attempt. However, as you are correct about the potential of extra staff work, the prerequisites for the rebellions for first and second dominion can be increased. For instance, the minor faction must have existed for least 4 weeks instead of 10 days. Additionally, the rebellion will be limited to the minor factions on the hex.
 

Raiz

Self-Imposed Exiled
Writer
You could talk with the FO of the major faction that is going into the hex your minor faction is currently living in and work something out, no?
 
[member="Raiz Australis"] That would depend on the FO's benevolence + research. Dominions don't have to be announced in advance, so if you're gearing up in a minor faction you can wake up to find your hex in the process of getting domininated.
 
[member="Valiens Nantaris"] Another option would be to allow the dominions of hexes with minor factions on them to happen only as the third or fourth dominions. Would something like that work?
 

Karacan Rigten

Character
Character
I have to agree with Sherezade here, however I also see Valiens points.

[member="Raiz Australis"]
While it's a good notion, I don't think everyone gets that opportunity. Not only can there be 'bad blood' but some people can have negative mindsets about minor factions for a multitude of reasons and just ignore their pleas.



As it stands, Minor Factions are very popular for groups that want to roleplay with each other but not wanting to go masquerading around the galaxy, and the option is always available for them to go Major.
However, there is no system in place for controlled territory. I mean, Major Factions territories have to change and be flexible a minimum of every month. However, it has long been held in Star Wars that factions woukd control and claim areas, but not conquer the Galaxy. The Hutts had Hutt Space, in which some points the Republic didn't even want to mess around in. Kuat Drive Yards militarized sectors of space that made it worrisome to be bigger than a pirate raider group within.

I'm not saying draw a line on the map, just have an official thread for minors that have done the work, to request official claim of territory (like through doms or invasions), to denote real obstacles for Majors and other Minors. Right now Majors can literally ballroom dance wherever they want, and the only conflicts aside from other Majors are story related and that's if everyone agrees.

I understand the freedom, but it should be a double standard with one restriction of rules there should be another. Board game restrictions don't work coinciding with free form, it barely works under cooperation.





I think I've gotten off-topic, but on the topic of allowing more Invasions... Valiens makes a good point. My only argument would be to implement a realistic faction system. Not every minor faction is a 'large military,' often its just a family, or friends. But then it stretches to full blown organizations and private militaries, which should be able to influence a sector of space or create an obstacle for Majors. So perhaps there ought to be a system for registering your Minor Faction as a large entity but not one that fights for control of every hex, with, of course, activity checks. It's just problematic with board game restrictions alongside free form roleplay I think.
 
[member="Ferron Troste"] I have a bunch of ideas about invasions too >.> But so far all of them weren't just a potential of extra work for staff, but actual extra work for staff, so I've refrained from suggesting them. The way I figured out my current rebellion for minor faction suggestions was based on the notion that it wouldn't really add a noticeable workload for them. Especially since, as you've mentioned, some minor factions are families and such and wouldn't prompt a rebellion anyway.
 

Karacan Rigten

Character
Character
[member="Scherezade deWinter"]

Jamie Pyne is the leader of the Factory, practically runs it the way she sees best, and makes it the least stressful as possible. Have a manager for the (official) Minors, give them the rules Minors need to follow, and they can hire their own team. Practically makes 0 workload for current staff, and doesn't add workload to anyone unless they want the load.
 
[member="Ferron Troste"] I think a managed forum is too much. Just a thread with a list of official Minors would work better, I think. That way Majors could take a look before they choose their hexes, and it would also not demand a new rule section to go along with it.
 

Darth Ferus

Wanderer
Character
Back in my day when ever something like this was talked about it was always "you want map? Go major or go home." It's amazing how much the site changes over a couple years. Though, I feel that any system put into place to prevent spam rebellions would only end up taking more time then they'd be worth for the staff.

Honestly, just talk to the FOs. They're writers at the end of the day and if you explain your stuff I doubt they'd try to undermine folks. They want people to post after all, and by working with minor factions thats just more posts (and potentially new members if it goes well) to be added.
 

Karacan Rigten

Character
Character
[member="Scherezade deWinter"]


I think one-sided board game restrictions on a free form roleplay site is too much, but who am I to judge? We have to have a system to satisfy the competitors, haha.


In the end, I suggested just that. Have a thread dedicated to listing minor factions that show they are more than just a family, a full organization that can throw weight around, Minors that have shown they've put the work in, to claim a couple hexes.

The suggestion for a team was to solve Valiens, proven point, yet problem.




[member="Darth Ferus"]

Well, I don't think anyone is fighting for Minors to get a color on the map, just added flavor for roleplay in threads.

And it's good you have the mindset to just talk it out. It'd be better if every leader had your mindset. Unfortunately we are all imperfect people in an imperfect world. Props for being optimistic though
 
Well-Known Member
Writer
While I agree that Rebellions being tied down to the third dominion of the month for the major faction is rather arbitrary, but I can see that it is generally more trouble than its worth to have the potential for a rebellion in every single dominion. To that end, it's not a bad rule to have.

However, I offer a potential alternative!

A Rebellion sign up roster for all major factions for each month.

Each month a minor faction that sees themselves stationed within an adjacent hex of a Major Faction will have the opportunity to request a rebellion against a major faction. The Major Faction will see their request, and decide they are either going to start a dominion there with the rebellion in mind (accepting the request), or they will avoid the area (denying the request and forfeiting the hex as neutral territory).

This way it puts the ball in the minor factions court every month to make the request ahead of time, and gives the major faction opportunity to plan a story for it ahead of time, or to simply avoid the area.

Additionally, if a minor faction wants to keep a territory neutral, they have to make the active effort to make that request every month, otherwise a major faction will think nothing of it to gobble the territory up without resistance.

What do you think of this?

[member="Scherezade deWinter"], [member="Valiens Nantaris"]
 
[member="Fatty"] This too, along with the other alternative suggestions brought up in the middle of the thread, definitely feels like it could work :) Now just gonna sit here in my corner and hope staff agrees.
 
Totally A New Member
Writer
Mostly we've seen less minors rebelling because of story or because they want to go major, and more "I don't like this/that guy/or that faction of people" or "I am of Clan Raxis and I'm gonna throw a rebellion to help out my buddy" type Rebellions.

Both hypothetical scenarios, but I feel like that's what has been happening. To me, the entire concept of Rebellions has been gutted by the community, and it's used more of a staging game to screw with people you don't like.

...which I guess actually does fulfill it's purpose? I don't even know anymore. What you're suggesting is that we backtrack - it got moved to 3rd/4th dominions for a reason, it'll likely stay for a reason, but I do know Staff has linked this thread in their private chat and are actively discussing it, so there's that at least.

Win or lose, at least your suggestion is being discussed.
 
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