Republic and Sith Fleeters Wanted

[Captain Larraq]

@[member="Darth Shadow"]

How would you envision dedicated anti-fighter ships like the TGE frigate or the Mandalorian frigate would balance into this? Also, the TGE 'flak frigate' is twice the size of the Mandalorian 'flak frigate'. Even with two Mandalorian frigates trying to do the same job as the TGE frigate, that one still brings more to the engagement.


Also, I may ask to join in as a Republic ally in the fleet engagement. It depends on if the Mandalorians can come to an agreement on their own activities in the near future.

 

[Darth Shadow]

@[member="Captain Larraq"] They would count as 'Carrier armed' ships. There's a degree of abstraction here, so if a ship is specifically better or worse it will be affected accordingly.

If you wish to join the Republic side, you can do so if they are OK with it.

 

[Darth Shadow]

@[member="Captain Larraq"] @[member="Tanis Ashfall"] @[member="Ronnie Vexis"] @Circe Saven

Since the Invasion begins soon I need to make sure everyone is still on so I can make final adjustments to numbers.

 

[Captain Larraq]

Who do I need to contact about participation and fleet submission?

@[member="Darth Shadow"]

 

[Marcus Itera]

@[member="Darth Shadow"]
Yeah, I'm still game. Just need to familiarize myself with Republic fleet components.

 

[Darth Shadow]

@[member="Captain Larraq"] Talk with a Republic faction admin and a Mando faction admin make sure they're OK with you basically declaring war just after a treaty.

Okay, anyone else?

 

[Captain Larraq]

Declaring war? Oh nonono. We are Mandalorians. We fight where we are payed to fight. Each ship will be owned by a seperate clan or mercenary corp and will be unafiliated with the Mandalorian Navy/government. For his part, Larraq will be hired on as a contractor to coordinate the engagement. For a fee.

 

[Shinju]

@[member="Tanis Ashfall"] @[member="Captain Larraq"] @[member="Darth Shadow"] @[member="Ronnie Vexis"]

Alright guys this is looking to be setup nicely thanks to Shadows hard work. The battle is looking to become one of the better ones on the site and organized. Same rules apply be fair with the damage and receive in kind. Use the map that has been created and use your fleet codes

Tanis [Rep1]
Larraq [Rep2]
Ronnie [Rep3]

Shadow [Sith1]

Character Name: (The character you are writing)
Fleet Code: (Will be issued when your fleet is approved)
Turn: (The turn number it is currently)
(Ship Name): (Complete one of these for each ship in your fleet)
SHIP TYPE/CLASS: (The name and type of ship this is)
MOVING: (Departure and arrival hex)
FIRING: (Target hex and the ship you are firing on)
SHIELDS: (Approx % of shields left.)
HULL: (Approx % of hull damage remaining before the ship is destroyed)
SPECIAL: (Any special conditions to note on the ship, whether it has launched fighters for instance, has a fire on board etc)

Each side will be having 15km worth of ship total (divided among the 3 Republic for 5km each)
Submit your fleets to me and remember no event or ships over the 2km mark.
The Objective for the engagement is simple... seek and destroy nothing fancy just kill them before they kill you.

We will be using all the rules from Valen and the new rules for Suppression

Spoiler

Learning from Valen, I found that the role of Attack Craft were perhaps the most confusing element of them all, not just because there were so many, but because of the RPing issues involved.
How does a player respond without involuntary metagaming? After all, Player A attacks Player B who presumably fires back, but how does that effect damage results? How do you know how many enemy fighters you’ve shot down?

My solution is rather simple. More than anything an attack against heavy flak causes pilots to be disrupted and be forced to evade and pull up, even if they’re not hit. This is what I call Suppression.
A ship can suppress either the hex they’re in or an adjacent hex rather than firing normally that turn. What this does is reduce the damage caused by attack craft depending on how many, and what types of ships are suppressing a hex. With this, you don’t need to ‘call hits’ on an enemy, you can let the other writer decide how many fighters or bombers they lose whilst still fairly determining your damage.

So, TL;DR – ships can reduce the damage fighters and bombers cause by focussing fire on the hex they are in or adjacent.

My suggested amounts are:

Matchup Damage Suppression
Carrier vs Attack Craft 70% -70%
Balanced vs Attack Craft 40% -40%
Heavy Guns vs Attack Craft 10% -10%
Each Subsequent Squadron -10% 10%

So, what this means is that a Heavy Guns ship will only deal 10% damage to an attack craft squadron (one or two fighters suggested) and reduce their damage by a mere 10%.
However a Heavy Fighters/Carrier armed ship will deal 70% damage to a squadron and reduce their damage by 70% also. This is pretty lethal, needless to say.

The bigger the ship the more squadrons it can engage. The following lists how many squadrons a ship can suppress each turn.
Corvette 1
Frigate 2
Cruiser 3
Heavy Cruiser 4
Light SD 5
SD 6
Command Ship 7

The more squadrons engaged and suppressed, the less effective the firepower, with the damage decreasing by 10% for each subsequent target, and the suppression effectiveness increasing (getting worse) also.
Obviously, using a Heavy Guns ship for this is stupid, but a large carrier can drive off and damage multiple enemy squadrons whilst protecting ships from their attacks also.

So, the strategy in this is to choose a fleet with a good mix of ships and to target the enemy’s carrier and balanced ships before sending in your fighters and bombers. If you can do that then they will be slowly picked apart by the fighters and bombers.
Conversely, clever deployment of attack craft to make the enemy’s carriers defend themselves and not allies can open the enemy fleet to severe damage.

Spoiler

Please note these are ONLY SUGGESTIONS, they are not official, mandated, or anything of the sort, they are just a few ideas and tips for the new players here.

• Fleeting involves a lot more NPCs than normal RPing. Be generous to your opponents and you will receive it in return. Losing is not the end of the world, and in a battle like this, you WILL lose ships!
• Work together with your allies. Concentration of fire is key.
• Keep a reserve to bolster the front line if needed.
• How much damage should your attacks cause? Below are some suggestions you might find helpful.

Shield Damage Hull Damage
Carrier 15% 20%
Balanced 30% 40%
Heavy Guns 45% 60%
Larger Ship Class (Per Class) -10% -15%
Shield Recovery (Each Turn) 10% --
Fighters versus Escorts 5% 10%
Fighters versus Capital Ships 1% 5%
Bombers versus Escorts 40% 60%
Bombers versus Capital Ships 20% 40%
Carrier vs Attack Craft -- 70%
Balanced vs Attack Craft -- 50%
Heavy Guns vs Attack Craft -- 30%
Each Subsequent Squadron -- -10%


Fighters and bombers are listed per squadron. The larger ship class penalty does not apply to them.
There is no bonus for shooting at a smaller target because they are usually harder to hit. You will always do 1% damage to an enemy, though this is quite minimal.
Ship classes are defined by the Anaxes College Standards:
Standard Ship Measurements
Corvettes 100-200m
Frigates 200-400m
Cruisers 400-600m
Heavy Cruisers 600-1000m
Light Star Destroyer 1100-1200m
Star Destroyers 1200m-1700m
Command Ship 1700-2000m
Battlecruisers/Dreadnoughts 2000+m
As before these are suggestions. Follow them or not as you will.

 

[Darth Shadow]

I have made some edits and tweaks to the damage table (and inadvertently made it pretty colours!)

Since the Republic/Mandos have 3 on their side there will be a total of 15,000 metres for each side. This is split into 3 5000 metre fleets for the Republic/Mandos and 2 7500 metre fleets for the Sith.

This will be the map.

Spoiler

No features, special rules or complex objectives. Just find, engage, destroy. The winner is the one who destroys the most metres of ships. Ships reduced under 25% hull count as half metres for purposes of victory points.

The Sith will enter from the bottom row in their first turn (Row 14). The Republic/Mandos will enter from the top row (Row 1).

 

[Captain Larraq]

Wait... You're using a 2d map for a 3d battle? Are you at least using positive and negative numbers to represent planes and elevations in relation to other ships?

Are you using specific 'hex' based ranges for weapons?
How are you choosing to represent the physical distance that each Hex measures?
How are you handing movement speeds? Like a videogame with fixed movement speeds, or like real physics with rates of acceleration?
Other than what is posted in this thread, are there any additional rules I need to read and review before I start?

 

[Darth Shadow]

@[member="Captain Larraq"]

Yes, we are using a 2d map for a 3d battle. Why? 3d adds nothing to the thread except unnecessary confusion. These hexes represent abstracted distances and areas, not a fixed space. If you think this is complex, just wait until I add in whole new complex layers.

Capital ships fire 6 hexes, escorts 3 hexes.

Movement speeds are equal to 11-(sublight speed), so a ship with speed 8 moves 3. There's no complex physics involved. Again, that would turn this into a wargame and would not be fun at all.

Other than that, not really. Ships can't fire through hexes with enemy capital ships. Shields regenerate 10% each turn.

Fleeting is an abstraction because anything else is far too complex. If you'd like to try my actual wargaming space battle rules in another thread and time we can work on that then.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

This is why I had @[member="Darth Shadow"] plan the fleeting element.

 

[Darth Shadow]

One other thing. After discussing with @[member="Omega Ranger"], we've come to the conclusion that the tech submissions are a bit...wayward with what they list as weapons. Ain't nobody got time to look at all that.

So when you send your fleet to Omega Ranger, specify each of your escorts and capital ships whether they are "heavy guns", "balanced" or "light guns/carrier" armaments.

That way everyone knows what you're shooting and how to react without looking up endless tech submissions. It'll also bring older subs into line with newer ones.

 

[Captain Larraq]

3d tactics and confusion add to the fun of it all. It also allows you to more easily break apart enemy formations and catch them in pincer formations.

I like complex physics and wargames. They allow for actual tactics and more room for actual roleplaying. This is a fairly drastic simplification of a space engagement. I understand that you are trying to limit confusion and structure it so that there is little 'wiggle room' for drama to occur...

I usually throw middle level physics into my Naval roleplays. I take the time to research basic physics and calculate kinetic damage of a weapon using mass x velocity formulas as well as a number of other formulas. I do it because I enjoy roleplaying an element of science fiction that I cannot otherwise get from a tabletop roleplay. But honestly, as much as I would love to see your faces as I rocket past you at 58,000km/hour, firing a volley of concussion missiles at (roughly) Mach 42, doing Kinetic damage with each missile that is 196 TIMES the 'damage' of the fastest Earth missile (Mach 3.5).... I'd rather not make waves.

So, really, I'd just be happy if you guys went ahead and added in diagonal movement along a Z axis (through red and green numbers to represent elevation from the 'core' map). At the very least, that lets me play around with tactical positioning and such.

(58,000km/hour = the speed traveled by the ship that reached from the Earth to the Moon in only 8 hours and 35 minutes)
(yes, I have researched the physics and calculated the math through various real formulas. It's actually a fairly simple maneuver.)

 

[Captain Larraq]

One other thing. After discussing with @[member="Omega Ranger"], we've come to the conclusion that the tech submissions are a bit...wayward with what they list as weapons. Ain't nobody got time to look at all that.

I do. I've been reviewing tech submissions from various factions since I joined this forum.

 

[Darth Shadow]

@[member="Captain Larraq"] Has decided to pull out due to problems with the base conditions.

As much as I would like to make things both more complex and more strategic, it's not practical. Valen was confusing enough without adding another dimension in and trying to deal with physics and math conditions that the Star Wars writers themselves never bothered with (hyperspace, sound in vacuum, everyone having artificial gravity).

If anyone else is interested in a more complex, non-invasion fleeting RP at some stage, I would be happy to arbitrate, but that would be the fringe of the fringe interest I fear.

Either way, the fleet totals will now me 10,000km for each fleet, 5,000 for each writer. Send your fleets to @[member="Omega Ranger"]. When he has all them we will begin.

 

[Garith Darkhold]

I shall be following the battle by reading. I’m curious how two factions handle fleet battles here on Chaos.

 

[Tyr-Kyr Magnus]

Can you post a link to the map your using?

 

[Captain Larraq]

I shall be following the battle by reading. I’m curious how two factions handle fleet battles here on Chaos.

@[member="Togashi Yokuni"]

From what I can tell, they play Battlefleet Gothic.

 

[Darth Shadow]

I did back in the day. It was fun, if limiting. Probably my favourite space battle sim was Homeworld, though even that was lacking in some areas. Even most PC games fight on a 2d map because it's easier. After all, most genres treat space battles as sea battles without water. EG, the Rebel fleet could have gone up or down the Z plane and avoided the Imperials at Endor in theory. But, no.
As I said, I'd love to do something more in-depth, and I will if you find me someone willing to do it, @[member="Captain Larraq"]. However, since I don't have the ability to do a 3d map or know the first thing about astrophysics...it'll have to stay this way for now.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/lordvalentai/SWRP/SithInvasion2.png Is the map.