Suggestion Rebellion rules and clarification

[Aloy Vizsla]

Not going to point fingers, But having a third party attempt to derail a rebellion thread written by two cooperating factions is annoying.
I'm not talking about third party side stories either, I'm specifically talking about a major faction creating a minor faction to loophole their way around This rule:

• Rebellions cannot be started by Minor Factions that are owned by members who hold a position as a Major Faction Admin/Owner on any of their characters.

It is laughably easy for a faction to get around this rule by creating a minor faction owned by a member, Use said minor faction to contest the hex in question and try to force the outcome and thus maintain the hex's neutrality, And then scoop it up using the major faction later.

I know that our grand overlord tefka(from what I've gathered) seemed disappointed with the fact that these rebellions are often the victims of major faction interference, And I feel the same. Rebellions serve to allow a minor faction the chance to hit a major faction, And to enter the map game in a more dynamic fashion. So why let a third party derail the thread?

This is my suggestion:

Ether


● Limit third party participants to allies of one of the two factions involved with the rebellion(ie: The rebelling minor faction and the defending major faction and none other)

Or

● Make it a rule that any faction(Minor or Major) or other third party(individuals with or without a faction) must have permission from the primary factions involved(The rebelling minor faction And the defending Major faction.) to participate in the thread.


And if the staff are unwilling to implement either, Than I'd like to suggest at the very least that the rules regarding third parties involved with the thread are made clear and not left up to interpretation, A the rules are somewhat vague currently. The language of the rules suggests that only two parties should be involved, yet that is rarely the case and left up to the player's interpretation, Which imo is never a good thing when it comes to rules.


And, Since I know this is likely to get the attention of a few parties currently involved with threads like these, Here is my final suggestion, to cut down on the potential OOC Battle between all parties involved: If this is implemented, Maybe wait till the current round of invasions\rebellions are over by next week.

 

[Lucien Dooku]

"not going to point fingers"

Aloy Vizsla

iconic.

 

[Kyra Perl]

Yeah this is nothing but foul play.

Lets protect the real minors out there that are doing their part and playing fair. SMH.

Nice suggestion. Aloy Vizsla It's a good step at supporting them.

 

[Garza]

Rebellions are open to any Minor Faction. Doesn't matter who started it.

HOW TO DECLARE A REBELLION

• Any Minor Faction or group of Minor Factions may launch a Rebellion, so long as they have been Minor Factions for at least 30 days.

Taken from here.

 

[Amaya Cardei]

Or.

We go back to letting rebellions be the wild west where any minor faction could jump in regardless of affiliation - the best minor faction to write a cohesive narrative in the rebellion's timeframe wins. There's always going to be an ooc factor, whether we like it or not. You can either ignore it or take part of it. This doesn't do any good while I understand where you're coming from, this isn't going to be a productive conversation. Wait until the flames of the rebellion have cooled.

 

[Irveric Tavlar]

The general impression of 'rebellions are wide open to just about any minor faction' was known at the onset and wasn't a secret to either party involved and thus, everyone should've been prepared for another faction to throw their hat into the ring.

A valid minor faction entered with a story they wanted to tell.

If a thread is OPEN, then be prepared for curveballs, de-railing and interruptions to your narrative and respond accordingly the best possible way you can:

Tell the better story and you'll get the result you want.

 

[Amaya Cardei]

As an aside, there's something else here since you brought it up.

We have two subfactions.

One subfaction is told hey you can't be here you're a subfaction, but this is extended as a blanket to say any subfaction is not allowed. However subfaction number two still participates now, either they are all convientely allied with the attacking minor faction and have thus subverted this rule through the ally system. Or, they're participating regardless of what was told to them about subfactions participating in rebellions. Either way it breaks down whatever point you're trying to make.

And as much as I realize this might come back to bite/haunt me.

In some regards, letting the rebellions be a free-for-all/battle royale that they were might not be such a bad thing. I mean it's territory that's being rebelled against a major faction. At the end of the day, we're looking at who told the best story. If your group didn't do that, then hey, sorry. If your group does do that then hey! You just won a huge battle royale rebellion.

 

[Pom Stych Tivé]

I personally cannot tell who is writing for the rebellion of which faction. I can only guess that the faction invading the thread with their subfaction may have more writers than either group who were attempting to collaborate. If it could have been a private thread, (and I don't believe I have seen one be) wouldn't that have put a prickly pear in someone's shorts!

 

[The Red of Sinner]

I think I get the point here. And I agree with Aloy Vizsla

While Rebellions are a rare thing to happen, it can be easily abused by a Major Faction using a Minor Subfaction as a Rebellion tool, giving other....Independent? Minor Faction no real chance. Granted, I already believe that the Staff would have a work around for this?

 

[Lucien Dooku]

Implying that a third party entering the picture would remove the chance for another to succeed is the same as implying that the minor faction in question doesn't have the ability to succeed.

I personally believe that, regardless of who else enters a rebellion, the victor should be the one who can put together the best narrative that stands out.

The soft bigotry and low expectations aside, a third party should not automatically make it seem as if the original minor rebelling has no chance of competing. All it takes is for them to tell a better story. Simple enough I think.

i guess there's also the point to make that I think people tend to forget that rebellions, be they in fiction or real life, tend to always have third parties or even more somehow involved behind the scenes. They're called proxy wars for a reason.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

• Any Minor Faction or group of Minor Factions may launch a Rebellion, so long as they have been Minor Factions for at least 30 days.
• Rebellions cannot be started by Minor Factions that are owned by members who hold a position as a Major Faction Admin/Owner on any of their characters.
• To declare a Rebellion, a Minor Faction Owner must make a clearly labelled OOC thread in the Roleplay Discussion forum and tag the Owner/Admins of the Major Faction being attacked.
• Any other Minor Faction may join the Rebellion by posting their intention in the same thread.

The rules, quoted.

Rebellions are meant to be chaotic free for alls where there are multiple sides and someone will win.

Yes, there is a way to get around it technically by using a shell minor faction and then have a major faction's people pile into that.

That's not against the rules. Indeed, the only way to prevent this is to put in draconian rules which would prevent writers of said faction staff from participating, but that's a bit unfair too, surely? Like, if someone is a faction admin for TSE, it'd be unfair for a completely different character with a Jedi minor faction to be disallowed from rebellions.

If you want a neat, coordinated thread, choose a faction, private or similar. A Rebellion is a venue for many factions to get involved.

BUT, all that said, if you feel there is some sort of egregious abuse where a minor faction is clearly just a puppet of a major faction's interest...sure, report it and those judging the rebellion will investigate.

 

[Ellie Mors]

I would keep this in mind before you guys go off the rails.

 

[The Red of Sinner]

SUBFACTIONS

1. If a Minor Faction holds allegiance to, operates under the authority of, or in any way belongs to a Major Faction they are considered a Subfaction and not a Minor Faction.

2. A Subfaction may use the resources of its Major Faction, but may not initiate Rebellions.

​

Are subfactions including those used as opposition for dominions?

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

The Red of Sinner
Rather unrelated, and it would depend, but not usually.

 

[Garza]

The Red of Sinner

Subfactions can take part in any Rebellion. However, they just cannot start one themselves.

 

[Rynn Vizsla]

Garza - Sadly, Tef gave some clarification on the Subfaction Participation bit in the latest Rebellion thread. Just wanted to drop in and connect some dots and cross some t's. lol

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

The whole "This is how it is, Deal with it" mentality towards this suggestion is unneeded. If I agreed with that, The suggestion wouldn't exist right now. I do agree that I probably should have waited to make this till later, But it's too late for that now.

The only constructive criticism or alternative I see so far is the idea that rebellions should be a total free for all, And while It's funny to promote the whole "Chaos" theme on here because of the forum's name, I don't agree.

This may be how it is right now, Chaotic, unpredictable, But it doesn't have to. It can be fun if both sides cooperate, And I just don't see cooperation in a free for all. It generally leads to confusion and drains the fun out of a thread.

Lastly: I never said that it kills the chance of one faction or another.

 

[Bernard]

The topical principle seems to be the age-old improvisational: "Yes, and ..."

Have you tried genuinely reaching out to the other people involved?

 

[Garza]

I stand corrected. Thanks

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

A minor clarification has been added to the rules:

• Any other Minor Faction may join the Rebellion by posting their intention in the same thread. A Subfaction may not join a rebellion.

This is to make it crystal clear as the rules for this were previously spread out.