Suggestion Rebellion rules and clarification

[Beskadala]

The topical principle seems to be the age-old improvisational: "Yes, and ..."

Have you tried genuinely reaching out to the other people involved?

Literally this. SoM has been broadcasting their intent with this story for months before Braxant Campaign against the Sith. Yet none of the parties now have consulted, inquired, nor asked for collaboration (which SoM would be open to)...instead other parties have BARRELLED there way in, played the victim and now are opining misdeeds. This would all be EASILY simplified if other parties reached out to SoM. In fact, THERE IS AN ENTIRE THREAD in IC designed to iron out this issue - and all that was received was snide IC insults and brovado. And yet WE are the issue here.

Cool......Cool, Cool CoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCool

 

[Warchief Waddles]

Alright let me go on and put this issue to bed here since it seems like people are getting genuinely upset. I've had the Ragnar Syndicate for quite awhile and interfering with rebellions is nothing new to either me or Grrwunhoooll Agaburry . We did it once with The Brynadul and another Major faction ( Tathra Khaeus probably remembers it, but my memory is shit.) as the Ragnar syndicate, and once more we did so against the CIS on Atrisia as the Rancidus Order.

This had nothing to do with a major faction making a minor to interfere with a Rebellion as me and Kez as we usually do were cooking up the idea to stir trouble in the rebellion and just allowed the NIO to profit off of it. As anyone who's known either of us long enough can tell you we go about doing things our own way. Do I personally see an issue with this? No. Third parties are welcome into rebellions such as with The Grayson Imperium, The Republic, and The AOC jumping in against them, which the AOC won and mind you all sides were still able to tell their stories and have fun which led into even more future stories.

Instead of making a post complaining or retreating to an echo chamber, anyone could've reached out to me to make their opinions known or simply discuss issues. So why didn't anyone? Is it because they take things on this board too seriously? That's probably the issue here more than anything else.

As for supporting "real minors" theres no such thing. A minor faction is a minor faction, people usually just take issue when things happen that they don't like.

Aloy Vizsla Beskadala Kyra Perl

 

[Ellie Mors]

Instead of making a post complaining or retreating to an echo chamber, anyone could've reached out to me to make their opinions known or simply discuss issues. So why didn't anyone? Is it because they take things on this board too seriously? That's probably the issue here more than anything else.

As for supporting "real minors" theres no such thing. A minor faction is a minor faction, people usually just take issue when things happen that they don't like.

Practice what you preach.

 

[Warchief Waddles]

I am practicing exactly what I preach, I'm not complaining about the board or threads going on, hell I barely pay attention to it. Plus with the topic of the thread and the first post focusing on the current rebellion its best to point out everything in it in public. Am I wrong?

As for taking the board too seriously, sorry thats something I'll never do and anyone who knows me can tell you that. I care about the gym, my body, and my goals above everything else. Chaos is far behind on the list.

Ellie Mors

 

[Ellie Mors]

Warchief Waddles
You're making a post in a suggestion thread complaining about the fact that the thread exists, preaching to them to contact you instead of doing so.

Simultaneously not reaching out to contact them and instead making a soapbox post to do so.

You could have sent them a DM/PM to explain your rationale, instead you made a spectacle out of it.

 

[Jsc]

Clever.

Kinda sad I didn't think of it really.

Also. More soapboxing pls. I need something fun to read tonight.

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

Beskadala I honestly don't know what you're talking about. TSE reached out to the MU for the rebellion thread. If they didn't want to write with you than I genuinely am sorry, No one likes that feeling. As for the IC bravado and insults, That's all in character. And if it's the thread I'm thinking of, That was between the Enclave and SoM, Which has nothing to do with this rebellion nor was thread ever finished.

Warchief Waddles I'm not saying they created the faction with this intention. I'm saying they joined with this intention.

Bernard We didn't have a chance. They tried to jump in and then were told off my tefka. Then they joined a different minor faction and invaded the thread without warning. By the time we reaching out was an option, they were already there.



Now, This whole suggestion, I even said to wait to take action until After the rebellion that has now been brought up. My goal in making this suggestion is not to discuss the current rebellion, But future rebellions. This isn't some complaint or cry for help, This is me voicing a suggestion to improve Future threads.


So please, Stop arguing over a thread that won't be affected by this, And consider the threads that could be affected by this. That's what this is about. Agree with the suggestion, Disagree with the suggestion if you like, But leave the rest out of this. It's unnecessary.

 

[Kyra Perl]

pls dont tag me on som drama i didn't even mention them

Yeah this is nothing but foul play.

Lets protect the real minors out there that are doing their part and playing fair. SMH.

Nice suggestion. Aloy Vizsla It's a good step at supporting them.

Any major faction that does what she listed in the initial post is in fact doing foul play. And I support methods to protect minors from such antics.


I was responding to her suggestion and her suggestion only.


Not this ridiculous Mandalorian drama.

leave me out of this kthnxbye.

 

[Warchief Waddles]

Jsc Don't worry I gotchu dude.

If that's what you consider a soapbox post I must've done a helluva good job on it or you are putting too much stock in words on a screen. But no this isn't me complaining about the thread existing. I was pointing out and explaining the main factors on why it went up. Which is something you'd want to be addressed in public because it plays a part in this threads initial creation. So if I did take it directly to PMs as many people wouldn't be aware to all the facts of the situation. Am I right or wrong?
Ellie Mors

I don't care where the rules go from here, if anything let them remain the same and let chaos continue to reign. If someone believes enough in their narrative, the work they put into a faction, and their writing it should be no issue for 3rd parties to hop in and wreak havoc.
Aloy Vizsla

 

[Bernard]

To stay topical, a rule that makes it so only one minor faction can initiate and potentially win a Rebellion would essentially reduce the thread type down to an Invasion, but with Minors Factions. This change hurts thread variety and is ultimately pointless in my opinion.

If another minor faction jumps in they should get the same chances as the initiating one. Doing it any other way would just lead to the interested parties racing against each other to see who gets their rebellion declaration in first, I don't think I have to explain why this is a bad thing when there are so few opportunities for Rebellions already.

I'm with Valiens on the issue of Major Faction members and Admins, because this site is too small (I get the irony) to make sure those writers wouldn't get unduly punished for their choice of Faction association.

When another minor faction jumps into the thread, apply the rule I mentioned: "Yes, and ...". Treat them as equals, as other human beings, reach out to them (if you feel the need to or want to), and do your best to write a good story together. Not everything will always go exactly as you planned in big threads where so many people are involved. So make the best of it and roll with the punches. Try to have some fun.

More often than not there are reasonable folks behind those avatars.

Edit: Just in case it isn't clear, I'm 'preaching' communication to everyone, don't mean to single out any one person.

Aloy Vizsla

 

[The Red of Sinner]

"If someone believes enough in their narrative, the work they put into a faction, and their writing it should be no issue for 3rd parties to hop in and wreak havoc."

Im sorry but this sounds like you support, essentially, allowing 3rd parties to interrupt and just be annoying for the sake of a good trolling. Which is a good reason to have this Clarification. However, I dont think the Staff, or factions at war would decline or disapprove of a 3rd party coming in with permission with an actual story to write other than....chaos for the sake of chaos. Which isnt telling a story, it's just a group of people trying to passively aggressively cause drama.

But this is the last I'll say anything. Im heading out of this conversation.

 

[Garza]

Rebellions are supposed to be "Chaotic"

Having a sudden change in element, or story, and being able to roll with it, is what makes good writers. Limiting people from coming into your thread because "Trolling" when they have actual story reasons for showing up, is just an Echo Chamber.

While people say its a bad outlook on the site, I completely of the mindset with Rebellions of "If you don't like them, then don't join, or make a Major Faction."

Play chaos like you would like the Stock market. Only join with what you are willing to lose.

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

Garza I am more than willing to lose as long as it's by the rules. Which is why they needed to be clarified at the very least. Which, it appears they have thanks to this suggestion.

 

[Garza]

"More than willing to Lose" but write a suggestion thread about a current thread because its not favorable?

Seems like there is some irony in that.

If its in the rules for other Minor Factions Not subfactions to join in, then if you do lose, its by the rules presented. Take the lumps then go home. Getting on a soap box and getting upset over it and "Not pointing Fingers" isn't a good looking color on you.

Rebellions for literal YEARS now have been open to any Minor faction that wanted to hop in. The only reason that others didn't join in is for the sake of respecting the factions taking place in the rebellion, or they just didn't want to jump in. Subfactions not being able to I agree with because they have the backing of a Major faction/Part of that faction and so they aren't actually a Minor Independent faction.

As Bernard stated, its a pointless change to try and add more rules and limitations as rebellions happen so rarely, and were built to be a place where it was a Free-for-all against the Major Faction that took place in one singular thread. Making a rebellion a "Mini-Invasion" is only going to make it happen less often, and have a negative impact on writing them with Minor Factions fighting one another in an attempt to be "Fast on the draw" to throw down a rebellion before anyone else.

Could Rebellions be looked into? Sure. Lawyer it up and see what might be able to change to make it fun for all. However, there are people out here who do find fun out of a "Chaotic Mess" that Rebellions can be, and thus make a Minor Faction just for the pure purpose of joining Rebellions to help, or hinder the parties involved. Making it "Fun" for one party, makes it "Boring" for another.

Aloy Vizsla

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

Garza I already told you all that This is about Future Rebellions. Insinuate all you want, But it doesn't change the fact that on the very front page of this thread it says that if anything is to be implemented, It should be done after the current rebellions have ended. Go back and read it if you like.

How many times do I have to say that I'm not trying to change the outcome of current threads? And how would I even affect current threads anyway? I came in here knowing that, As far as I understood it, That if anything changed, It would change later on, As I personally have never seen a suggestion alter the course of a thread before. It honestly doesn't make any sense to me that they would.

As for your stance on rebellions in general, I'm glad to get some feedback instead. To play devil's advocate I will simply say this: There are also those who find more jot in a thread with a certain degree of cooperation. And I also never said to make it "Fun for only one party" But rather "Fun for the two parties", Instead of "Fun for one third party" or however many parties end up involved in these things, Because imo it's too easy to come in with the sole purpose of draining the fun for one's own gain.


Now, I hope I don't have to explain that anymore. It seems like people are trying to put words in my mouth and I hope this clarifies things for everyone else.

 

[Garza]

I never stated that the outcome of this suggestion would affect the current Rebellion. What I am pointing out is you getting upset about it in a manner of "I am not pointing fingers, but I don't like this and here is why." Is to the same effect of "I don't want to offend anyone but...." I am not sure where you get this notion from, nor do I see where I ever posted the idea that you were making this kind of intention. You are putting words into my mouth. If you don't want people to assume what you are doing, then stop doing it to me.

I have read your initial post a couple times because I wanted to understand what stance you were taking, and what demands you were making. I don't need to read it again.

Yes, cooperation can be reached via multiple factions in the thread. As is the case with the Greyson Imperium, Galactic Alliance, and Agents of Chaos. Everyone had fun, and communicated between each other even when the AOC popped in with no real invitation.

Communication in Rebellions is not a required element, and can be sprung on a Major faction at any time without any invocation. Unlike Invasions that require 7 Days of a notice. Forcing communication to at the least be done as "Hey we are invading you in a weeks time. Prepare or die."

Rebellions can be thrown up as soon as the requirements are met, with no other communication other than an OOC thread in the correct forum.

If the factions are having problems with communications, then that is not a fault of the system, but a fault of the user no matter the side the screws it up.

Aloy Vizsla

 

[Bernard]

Why can't you have fun with a third party? They add tension, mix things up, and offer an opportunity for new acquaintances as well as a good story.

Why would you create a race to post a Rebellion declaration in order to get the right to gatekeep who gets to participate in a thread opportunity that happens so rarely?

If a minor faction is being intentionally malicious (all-out trolling or worse!) report them and ignore what they write to focus on what you want to write, that's a power you can exercise at any time. There are no rules that force you to acknowledge what someone else writes. Be respectful, don't let trolls walk over you.

Not everyone is out to get you, though. Just because someone opposes you doesn't mean they're being malicious. This is a social environment, you don't get to control what everyone wants, so you gotta make the best of it. Work with their story and use it to make your own better. Do that and you might find things start being a lot more fun.

"Yes, and ...", people. "Yes, and ..."

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

Garza I get the notion from the very beginning of your previous post. If that's not what you mean than that's all good, But that's how it comes across.
I have no comments on the rest of that post other than that it's feedback which is the point of comments on these posts.


Bernard I understand that, I really do. That's why one of the options I included in the suggestion was to allow them to join if the other parties involved were willing to write with them. Suddenly you have three factions all cooperating to tell the same story. I'm not saying you can't have fun with a third party, I want to make it easier ensure that it's possible to have that fun. I included the first option of denying them though, because it makes things easier for the main focus, the two factions that started the whole thing. If the staff look at this and make a choice, They will see Options, Some of which will be easier on them and some of which will be harder on them. They see an extreme option, a less extreme option, and the rather tame option below it all, They see folks like yourself offering feedback and their own suggestions, And act accordingly.

Personally, Now that I've read some of your feedback, I'm leaning more towards the second option, As opposed to being indifferent between the first two.

 

[Lucien Dooku]

Option two is still gatekeeping, though.

It still means you control the narrative and reserve the right to gatekeep the pace of the rebellion. The whole thing about rebellions is that it's not a one on one thing specifically. It can have more than two parties, and just because your faction grabbed the rights of being the first minor involved doesn't mean the narrative is yours to gatekeep or control.

I'll touch back on what I said before.

If you believe that a third faction has the potential to derail your story when that third party has every intent to put forth a serious narrative, that's not that faction's problem. That's your problem.

Have faith in your faction, as these are the people who will help you carry the day to WIN the rebellion. If a faction is capable and confident in their ability to craft a superior narrative, then nothing else matters right?

Seems pretty easy and legit to me. Aloy Vizsla

 

[Aloy Vizsla]

Lucien Dooku It's less so faith and more so wanting to cut down on troublemaking. I am confident that any faction who came for the story will win the hex, As it shows in their writing. It's just annoying being forced to deal with troublemakers, But yeah I do get where you're coming from to a certain extent