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 OBSERVATION: Difference between Ban and Suspension

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BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer
I've come off of a justified and uncontested "Temporary Ban" and I noted that the term itself, to some people, can be bit of a technical contradiction in terms of the definition of the word: Ban, especially in other languages who are directly translating it. To most people "Ban" is a permanent prohibition. I think that "Suspension" or "Suspended", which is defined as a temporary prohibition, would be a more grammatically accurate term for the judges standard month-long "Temporary Ban" which can maybe avoid confusion, plus it would be more grammatically correct. This would also assist in alleviating potential language/translation barriers or complications.

Again, this isn't a criticism or anything of the sort, it's just something I noticed and decided to wait until my own "Temporary Ban" was over before bringing up this observation. Any technical changes to the wording of whatever document is used by the judges in the course their work is up to them, I just wanted to offer my own personal observation from the point of view of someone who has worked in a university writing lab, therefore, grammar is a bit of sticking point to me, and I figured a place like an RP forum, where writing is how things get done and get communicated, would probably appreciate a simple observation like that.
 

BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer
A Temporary Ban is not a contradiction because it is what it says; a non-permanent restriction on access.
Well to me the wording just isn't something that I'd recommend. Again, this is from my own point of view with the experience I've gained proof-reading essays. One of the pieces of advice I gave to those who wanted a proof-read was to always head off potential grammatical misunderstandings, leave nothing to chance. Another piece of advice I gave was that: If you can use one word in the place of two words, do it. For instance, Suspension would work quite well in this context for both the simplification and the specification of the wording of the sentence and the sentence intent. But there's also another one which may or may not be more psychological in its context, so make of it what you will, I just figured it worth mentioning:

The word "Ban" comes off as a very strong and aggressive word, and has a lot of connotations to it, none of them good, especially for those who are receiving that PM from an admin. It's probably because "Ban" has a connotation of permanence to it, and that's something no one wants. From what I've gathered the key to being an admin or judge or similar roles is to know how and when to escalate things. The word "Ban" seems to be a massive and probably an unintended escalation. Whereas "Suspension" is by definition temporary, and doesn't have that mental escalation to it, making the situation more approachable for both parties involved.

There's also the language barrier thing I mentioned as well, from what I can gather after some quick googling is that auto-translation functions in the different browsers rely upon the textbook definition of different words to accomplish their translations. And the word "Ban", because it has permanence within its textbook definition, can be mistranslated to a word which does not represent the intension of the message. Whereas "Suspension" has that definition of temporary within it, therefore the right word is most certainly going to be chosen by the browser's translation software, reducing the chance of misrepresenting the context with a mistranslation.

Again, these are observations offered from the point of view of someone who's really grown to like this site and its community and just wants to help improve it. And seeing as it's not a criticism of policy or anything like that, just a suggestion about switching out one word, I figured it wouldn't do any harm.
 

Bianca

B 1 4 - N C 4
Writer
a suspension is like a time-out for a set period of time, a temporary ban is being kicked out the door and locked out for a time that fits whatever it is you did with the implication that doing it again will turn it permanent.

I don't really understand where or how there'd be any confusion, one is more severe than the other and the name implies what happens next.
 

BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer


brushing up on my tef meme game
Again, not a rules dispute, just a harmless grammar observation. I'd respectfully ask that we don't change the thread's context, it can swiftly swing to a bad train of thought and that won't end well for anyone (And I'm part of the "anyone" seeing as it's my OP). No rule or enforcement changes asked for. I have no issue with the rules; the rules and their enforcement seem about as good as they can be expected to be given the voluntary nature of the community staff.

a suspension is like a time-out for a set period of time, a temporary ban is being kicked out the door and locked out for a time that fits whatever it is you did with the implication that doing it again will turn it permanent.

I don't really understand where or how there'd be any confusion, one is more severe than the other and the name implies what happens next.
That's all subjective, I'm just offering that many people won't appreciate the context of that point of view. To many, the later context you imply can be perceived as a threat, and even the perceptions of threats (real or imaginary) are a bad light within a community like this and sow unneeded discord, whereas "Suspension" keeps people in a less confrontational mindset, making corrections and discourse easier to get across and implement so the undesired behavior which facilitated the chosen action can be dealt with.
 

Bianca

B 1 4 - N C 4
Writer
BIG Z1776 BIG Z1776
The use of a temporary ban is, as far as I've been aware, reserved for people who have refused to adhere to the rules in whatever capacity in such a way that the only way to get the point across that their behavior needs changing is to imply that they will lose access to the site permanently if they persist, and usually that realization only sets in after being told they've been temporarily banned.

I should also probably note that this whole deal about semantics doesn't really fit with the actual definition of the word, as the actual definition of the word ban is to, quote, legally or officially prohibit, which implies a non-permanent prohibition. Even examples in the dictionary (websters, dictionary.com, etc) make specific use of sentences which directly correlate bans with a temporary restriction. There's no reason the language used for what these punishments are should imply anything more than they intend, as that's how the words are used in common English.
 

BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer
Then in the semantics context we are not in agreement, the definition of Suspension is the same as "Temporary Ban". That's the reason the word Suspension is used in place of Temporary Ban more than Temporary Ban is used. In fact this is the first place I've seen where "Temporary Ban" is the go-to description for the described punishment. For example, schools don't "Temporarily Ban" students, they "Suspend" them. It just seems overly confrontational in the feel of the sentence in which it's used, and when you have different words or paired words which mean the same thing there's something to be said for having the right feel for a sentence.

If that's the admins' design intentions for the use of the term "Temporary Ban", as you suggest it is, then there's not much else for me to say. I made my observation and made my case. No where to go from here if that is the design, because it's not gonna change unless something cataclysmic occurs and that is the agreed-upon cause.
 

Bianca

B 1 4 - N C 4
Writer
BIG Z1776 BIG Z1776
Well this isn't a school or really even something you could compare in that way, so I don't think coming at this from a public/private school perspective will really help you. I do see where you're coming from when you bring that up, though. Suspensions usually last a couple days, like over the weekend. In your case, it would be like in-school suspension, which is a real thing. You're not given the perception that your removal from the community is imminent, but your actions still necessitated that kind of consequence.

A temporary ban, if we're continuing to use public/private school examples as a way to relate this rather than just the language itself, is like an out-of-school suspension. It's a step away from expulsion, more or less. Just as you said, they're almost indistinguishable in language, which is intended, the only difference is the implication that either term brings to the table and their length of time.
 

BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer
BIG Z1776 BIG Z1776
Well this isn't a school or really even something you could compare in that way, so I don't think coming at this from a public/private school perspective will really help you. I do see where you're coming from when you bring that up, though. Suspensions usually last a couple days, like over the weekend. In your case, it would be like in-school suspension, which is a real thing. You're not given the perception that your removal from the community is imminent, but your actions still necessitated that kind of consequence.

A temporary ban, if we're continuing to use public/private school examples as a way to relate this rather than just the language itself, is like an out-of-school suspension. It's a step away from expulsion, more or less. Just as you said, they're almost indistinguishable in language, which is intended, the only difference is the implication that either term brings to the table and their length of time.
Like you said, there’s a difference in implication between the two terms. And perhaps, seeing how long this community has been around, it’s become a kinda in-house institutional nomenclature unique to it that wouldn’t surprise the regulars but for the new folks it can be very jarring and rather disconcerting. And it’s that sorta disconnect/misinterpretation that I felt would be addressed with a simple switch of terminology.

But like I said, it’s over my head until such time as I can theoretically earn my way into such circles. In the meantime all I can do is offer the observation and make the case.
 
Icy-Hot
Writer
May I ask what you did wrong? If it'll get you in any further hot water, feel free to drop it... I'm just curious what you did to be reprimanded at all?

Furthermore, I'm aware this has nothing to do with the intent of your thread, as I said... Just curious.
 
Administrator
Admin


brushing up on my tef meme game
6/10 entrance.

Notes:
-didn’t spend an absurd amount of time improving the quality of the meme to the point that you began crying, drinking red wine, and ignoring actual responsibilities that require time and effort

-didn’t initiate any passive aggression nor veiled threats, these light humored “make fun of the owner” memes don’t carry as much mileage as say, OOC meta roleplay banter or faction locker room talk

-didn’t run any new phrases the hip kids are using to identify you’re not a boomer in disguise, ie “drip” “I often like to twerk alone in the cantinas” or tossing in some heavy cursing/edgy memes and acronyms you’d usually only see on Discord to further blur the lines of where this community begins and ends.

Solid entrance, great potential. This is not financial advice, I do not own shares in this meme, I just like the stock.
 

Bianca

B 1 4 - N C 4
Writer
BIG Z1776 BIG Z1776
More of what I was getting at was that in every other instance outside of a school setting, the word ban doesn't inherently mean permanent. It isn't an oxymoron to refer to something as a temporary ban, because ban only means to prohibit, or in simpler phrasing: to disallow. A temporary ban is, thus, the temporarily prohibited/disallowed access to the site. A "normal" ban is also temporary, in most cases - we actually do have "permanent" bans (those are infrequently unbanned at the whim of the site owner, from what I recall in passing conversation when I was a part of the staff team, but that could have changed as things slowly became more strict in recent years).

Most people, new or otherwise, tend to understand that a temporary ban is just a more severe form of suspension, which is exactly what it is supposed to be. You wouldn't call being unable to login for 72-96 hours a "ban" usually, you'd call it a suspension because the punishment lasted barely long enough to really impact your time on the site - being unable to login for a couple weeks or months, however, you'd generally be prone to refer to it as a ban because that is what it is, but by virtue of it being temporary it is named as such.

Realistically, if we absolutely were beholden to the most literal interpretation of the words we use and didn't abide by common nuance in language (which is why English is so tricky for people who don't have it as a first language, and even for some who do), we'd refer to it as a ban for any length of time that goes beyond what a suspension is because even a temporary ban is still a ban. Suspension is, by definition, meant to imply an abbreviated prohibition, or short term punishment, not that it is temporary. You can be "permanently suspended" just as much as you can be "permanently banned", the words both mean the same thing in the literal sense.

I do, however, recognize that nuance is inherently difficult for people who aren't made aware of its use to recognize, I just don't think it warrants anything beyond a brief conversation like this one where the differences between a suspension and a temporary ban are made.
 

BIG Z1776

Baboon with a MAAWS
Writer
May I ask what you did wrong? If it'll get you in any further hot water, feel free to drop it... I'm just curious what you did to be reprimanded at all?

Furthermore, I'm aware this has nothing to do with the intent of your thread, as I said... Just curious.
Boneheaded mistake, forgot I was posting to live judging and not pre-factory, my own fault. Really, the technical reason was copy and pasting in submissions. I’d wanted four different-sized cruise liners and made four identical ones value-wise and began to adjust over the course of many hours. It got late and I said to myself, “I’ll finish tomorrow and get it moved over.” You guessed it, I forgot, total brain fart at 3 AM.

Let it be a lesson: Don’t post past your bedtimes.
 
Staff does not comment usually on disciplinary actions but since it has been raised here and it's fair to set the story straight.

The OP of this thread was on a 30 day Codex/Factory ban for a number of issues stretching back over a period of time. We do not hand out these infractions lightly. However, that infraction is now over and access has been restored.

To BIG Z1776 BIG Z1776 I am not going to spend any more time or thought on this matter. The fractional difference between words is mere semantics, especially when it is not something we announce. It's pretty clear that a 30 day temporary ban like you received is not permanent, we even give you the date you could come back.

For now, this thread has run its course.
 
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