Making Invasions...Invasions

[Valiens Nantaris]

Disclaimer: This is not an official post, this is me as a writer trying to gain some insights into what people want, don’t want or suggest.

Invasions are…OK…at the moment. We’ve had some decent ones recently, and they seem fairly balanced enough.

My problem is that almost every invasion automatically becomes a teleportation/quantum-tunnelling exercise as people magically spring up on the planet’s surface. The Invasion then becomes a series of duels, culminating in one side being overwhelmed or giving up. The actual parts of an invasion, the armies, fleets, defences, all are reduced to background noise or are torn apart by over-zealous players by the score.
That’s fine. It works well enough in the PC-focusing of forum RPing.

And yet…it could be more. I mean, when I think of D-Day or Stalingrad I do not imagine the battles being decided by a duel between the two generals whilst the armies watch.

But…what to do about it?

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? Not everyone (and indeed probably a majority) don’t want to have to become Julius Caesar to take part in an Invasion. However, I bet there’s a fair number of people who aren’t happy with the way things are handled now, from a fleeting/warfare perspective.

I have some ideas, but I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on this. Don’t be shy, step into the light!

As I said before, this is just ideas for now. If there are any changes to the Invasion rules, it will only be after a lot of trial (and error) a long way down the line.

 

[Kira Talith]

I wish that more roleplay would be put into the IC preparation of it all --- not just a sudden BAM -- we invade and it's straight into pvp.

Invasions, in my mind, are lengthy, not for post count, but because it ends up being roleplayed as an epic story. From the planning, to attempting to get past defenses, to the response, to the pvp / pve, part of it, and then afterward, depending on who managed to roleplay better, the gradual taking over of the planet.

An invasion, at least to me, shouldn't be a something that spans in one thread --- but many. From preparation, actual invasion, and then the aftereffect.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

I firmly believe in respecting others' NPCs and military forces, to the point where my first character, a seven-year Master, was permakilled by battle droids used well in a bad situation. If you can find a systematized but not overwhelming way to make this work, I will love you long time.

I also fully endorse what Illie just said.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

@[member="Tamara"]. I always thought Hitler and Eisenhower slugged it out on the beach of Normandy, and thats what determined the winner of the battle.
But seriously is what you mean to say is that invasions should now be more writing and plot intensive, with a focus towards overall strategy and tactics and the careful movement and management of limited assets and resources? I have an idea or two.

 

[Kira Talith]

@[member="Darth Kentarch"] @[member="Ashin Varanin"] @[member="Tamara"]

Yeah like... one could do a [faction] thread to detail icly what you are preparing to do for this invasion. Obviously, you don't need to BROADCAST it lol, al a[ invasion prep for this] but at least make a good story and reasoning why you are doing this. Either due to promoting peace, quelling a threat, righting a wrong, or simply cause you want the resources of said planet.

If you roleplay with others, it becomes all the more real and awesome.

Then BAM

You have the [ Invasion] thread, with the preparatory thread you were using linked in the first post. This is where it gets to the nitty gritty of things... and don't super impose your forces already on the planet, respect any defenses. Show yourselves moving into hyperspace and then getting ready to drop out.

Something like that.


Then afterward, you go into an [Occupation] thread I guess... where it has been already been determined who won... but now you are icly actually showing how you are bringing under to your faction's control this planet.

Maybe there are rebels still there working and trying to set something up, maybe you gotta hunt down these guys, maybe as the defender, you put into place key things that you can hopefullky use at some other time to try and WIN BACK the planet at a later date.


I dunno, those are just some of my thoughts. [Faction], [Invasion] , then [Occupation] thread trio for a successful Invasion.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Agreed. What I liked about Roche was the fact that one had the feeling an actual war was going on. From the big fleet battles in space to the last stand of the Republic/Omega Pyre troops on G99 against an overwhelmning Sith force. Well, admittedly I'm biased because I participated in it and got to start Siobhan on her path to ceiling dropping, but based on my admittedly biased opinion Roche felt the most like an actual battle. Sure, it did have its awesome duels (e.g. Ashin vs. Darron) but it had more than that.

Likewise I liked wargaming against @[member="Ashin Varanin"] during the Fringe invasion of Atrisia.

 

[Allyson Locke]

As much as I love @[member="Kira Liadain"] I feel we need to either simplify things a bit more for people or leave it as is. Also I enjoy a time limit on invasions keep things going - also I'm totally fine with how things are as long as the faction leaders talk and the groups agree. That is all.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

OK good, these are constructive ideas.

Though I’m loathe to add more work to the factory, I liked how in Roche you had to have your NPC unit approved so everyone knew what they were facing. It could also put to use some of the many factory submissions people design for their NPCs but which almost never get used.

I like Kira’s ideas especially. A buildup thread for both sides, and an aftermath thread makes the invasions seem more important. Combined with the latest influence cloud rule additions it means that Invasions are big events with big consequences.

One other idea I had was to split the Invasion thread into several (or contain several missions inside the one thread) objectives, determined by the planet’s importance and locations. Coruscant should require more objectives than Tatooine to invade.
The kicker would be that some of these (though not a majority) objectives would be specified as fleeting/land battles, others for PVP, others for PVE. A character could only be involved in one objective (unless they leave and go to another) but a writer could be involved in several.

So take Tatooine arbitrarily and say there are 5 objectives. One could be designated a fleet battle, one a land battle, the other three free-for-alls or whatever else.
That would give those who want some invasion action leeway, but mean you can still win the Invasion without it.

Thoughts?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

@[member="Tamara"]

You did not have to have your NPC unit approved for Roche. That came after. It was for Dark Harvest.

 

[Onrai]

Mass orbital turbolaser fire.
That is all.

 

[Flint Dexen]

I think the idea of having multiple objectives for one invasion, while allowing a character to only participate in just one objective is... actually a fantastic idea. It would force factions to think about how they would divide up its members to fight strategically in the invasion.

My suggestion would be to kind of like divide up the objectives amongst different locations on the planet. One for space battle definitely, but about two or three objectives spread out to take place on different places on the planet.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

I agree with Kira completely on this, more preparation .. not necessarily over more then one thread but that could work too. I would also like to see more control over the events within the thread, like having someone GM it, or at least have some minor control over the direction of it. I have been in a few now and I have seen thread go off in many directions which at time becomes a farce. And that is where I generally loose interest. I am not suggesting a major GMing of it .. I don't wish to stifle peoples input or stop creativity but some one deciding on actions would be nice to see from time to time.

@[member="Tamara"]

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

@[member="Siobhan Kerrigan"]
Ah...yes, thanks, I got my timelines mixed up. Cheers!

@[member="Coci Sinopi"] @[member="Flint Dexen"]
You’re both spot on about that.

The problem of having multiple threads is they might get lost. The simple solution to that might be a new sub forum for invasions so it’s pretty clear which ones are still active.
The lack of direction in Invasion threads is a big problem too. Everyone tends to end up in a single brawl in one location, because that’s where other people are.

 

[Veino Garn]

I really like this idea of more planning and preparation for invasions. Right now, they're pretty basic and pretty easy things that some factions can have a lot of going on at once. Real invasions aren't like that. D-Day was the largest maritime invasion in recorded history (that also has a similar connection to these due to transitioning from sea to land) and it took an incredibly long time to prepare and plan for, and then once it happened it was controlled chaos as strategists kept having to change some objectives as situations developed and reassign units. Star Wars invasions would be even more challenging, since there's space and atmosphere to get through before even touching down on the planet. They would take longer than D-Day to plan for and it all gets skipped over, which is unfortunate because there is an enormous amount of story potential in there.

I do recognize that not everyone enjoys big picture strategy, so that could turn a lot of people away, but I really enjoy it.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

@[member="Kira Liadain"] has the right idea with pre-invasion, invasion, occupation. The idea should be all participating combatants need to make an appearance in a pre-invasion thread (Including allies). The thread should have a plot, and more importantly be completed to ensure commitment from the faction. This will also help slow down the war process, so its not invasion after invasion after invasion. Likewise the occupation thread serves another purpose: the commitment to hold the territory. Does nobody any good when you capture something you can't hold. I say you can't finish an occupation thread after winning an invasion the territory becomes neutral.

Here is another shocking mind blowing concept. Get ready, brace yourselves, hold onto your hats sports fans. Don't be afriad to call a draw or a stalemate. If you know your SW history, many wars boiled down to a draw on certain planets with little ground being gained.

Limit faction engagements, fleets and armies can't be everywhere at once. Make factions choose where they want to go, and instead of saying 'anything two spaces away' say 'you may move your task force anywhere two spaces away,' so we don't see people fighting on Korriban then three days later fighting on O'reen. ITS ACROSS THE ENTIRE GALAXY!
Lastly the admin should reserve the right to throw the invasion in one sides favor. Don't be afraid to stop a war when it becomes a miserable affair OOC.

 

[Ak'lya]

We need more espionage. This may just be me, but take the time to prepare. Have a skirmish of sorts where you learn about/sabotage the enemy defences, discover the weak points, and report back. Then, run a preliminary skirmish on the planet, or another planet, to try and weaken the defence of it. Then, when you've done all that prep work, send in your main forces. Maybe I'm alone here, but the invasion of Ossus felt like a Leroy Jenkins maneuver, throwing everything at the enemy blindly.

Also, there should be alternative objectives to invasions, like @[member="Serenity"] downloading the files of the Sith fleet, or stealing death star plans, or something akin. Have objectives that will win the war, but not the battle. If Strask went and downloaded the Black Sun bounty records during the Invasion of Barbel I, we could have learned and proven the deck of 52. It wouldn't win the planet, but it would be valuable.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

@[member="Strask Ak'lya"]
I think this could be put into the faction thread before an invasion, if that plan was adopted. It's a good idea though. Intel and information wins wars.

I don't want people to be excluded from the invasion just because they weren't in the prelude, but the prelude should be at least say 50 posts of preparations by the attacker. The defender would have no limit but it would help their cause if they prepared as well using a thread.

If objectives were ever used, the fleeting/army battles would never be a majority, and most likely only 2 of many possible objectives. I want the fleeting and land battles to have an impact...but just as much I don't want them to be compulsory for victory.

 

[Ak'lya]

@[member="Tamara"] Well, the prelude mentioned above would be the French Free and the Paratroopers during D-day. They're there, they fight, and are still there when the main force comes in.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

@[member="Strask Ak'lya"]
Possible, possible, but it might detract too much from the actual Invasion. Looking at it practically.

Still, let's see what the others think.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

@[member="Tamara"] while it may be true you don't want to exclude people, you need some kind of system to ensure everybody and their brother doesn't show up from halfway across the galaxy for no reason to be in an invasion thread. It should work as a filter for the people who are not supposed to be there and not committed to the invasion and the story itself, dare I say it, they need to work for their win.

Objects also can be problematic. I've seen attempts at doing objective base invasions. For instance, here an objective is to blow up an Anti Air emplacement, or eliminate a HQ post, many people just bunny kill the objectives without giving the opposing faction a chance to defend themselves. You need to define the objectives better, and sadly a Staff member with no conflicting interests is going to ensure no one extorts the process.