What's New
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Suggestion Invasion System Revamp

Major Faction

Ronan Vizsla

Ashes
Ronan Vizsla
Character Bio
Been a while since I did one of these, but it was always fun to brainstorm so let's try it again.

The premises is as followed:

The map game is stagnant.

People might agree with the assertion, disagree with it, but this is the jumping point for this suggestion. What's the solution to it? I have seen some suggestions; map wipes, different mandates, things like that and I think they are nice options. But I don't think they will solve the inherent problem. First it's important to figure out why the map game is stagnant. I have a few reasons that keep popping up in my head:
  • It's easy to gain territory. 50 posts a hex is nothing, compared to what we used to have.
    • Correction: it's nothing for established factions with a big memberbase. Which buffs them to keep adding territory.
  • It's hard to lose territory. One invasion thread that can number in 200+ posts might neutralize one hex, maybe two if you got the right mandate. Maybe a bit more, if you manage to corner your opposition with the right map snip.
    • Correction: it's hard to lose substantial territory when you are a big faction. It takes 200+ posts to maybe take out a hex, it takes 50 to dom another hex. Big factions can get it done faster, have larger clouds that insulate them from catastrophic map loss.
Conclusion that I draw from this: The effort to invade is many times more than the effort to dominion a hex. Hex expansion is a guaranteed method of 50 posts and you have a new hex. Hex invasion is a chance, spending 200 or more posts for maybe taking out a hex.

Solutions:
  • It should be easy to take out a hex. Just as easy as it is to win one.
    • Suggestions: One invasion should standard influence multiple hexes. You are taking out a hex that often represents multiple systems. It should have a ripple effect during victory. Maybe it takes out multiple hexes around it.
    • Alternative: tie it to the victory conditions. You win by one? You neutralize one hex. You win by two conditions? One more hex is neutralized, etc.
    • Maybe a cap on the duration or post count. Turn them from endless grind slogs to more quick-paced skirmishes. Make them feel more light and breezy, rather than investments of time that can dominate a faction for a whole month.
    • Any other options I am missing?
  • It should be even easier to win hexes than it is right now.
    • No caps on the amount of doms you can do each month. Half the current posting goal. Things like that, if you got more suggestions, drop them in!
Wait, but you just said that hex expansion is already easy and makes it hard to kill factions! That's true. I did say that. But there is a second problem that makes the map game such a slog and stagnant mechanic. It takes a long time for a small faction to grow out into becoming a big faction. Let's take the CIS, I did a count, they got a whooping 99 hexes (might have missed some), which translates into 4950 posts they have invested in their territory. That doesn't even mention the plethora of faction threads it has done to stay 'Active' for the activity checks. Is it really surprising that big Major Factions that required an investment of almost 5000 posts to get where they are, are not enthusiastic about losing that and be 'killed'?

No, of course not. It's human nature to not want to lose things that took work to gain. That's normal.

But what might make factions more enthusiastic about dropping the 'burn-out'-tactic and just focus on the story is the knowledge that if they lose? If they get killed? It won't take much time to get where they are. That it won't take them a year or more just to regain what they had.

In my ideal Chaos world (which might not be for everyone) a Major Faction should be able to build out their territory in a month. And they should be at risk of losing it all in half that time or less. Which might be a bit extreme, I concede, but I think it's the direction we should head towards if we can acknowledge that the system as it is designed right now are making a lot of people unhappy and just doing some patchwork won't fix that.

Haven't written a huge one like this in a while, so my apologies for the length!

Please discuss, if you got any thoughts.
 

Ariel Yvarro

Guest
A
My question here is about those new major factions who start out with their three hexes, and aside from the new faction mandate. What is there to stop a bigger major faction from curb-stomping the new guy? Cause I get wanting to take out the big blobs, that's all well and good but new itty bitty blobs that are just starting? Cool to curb-stomp those guys? 'You went major, you played the map game, now get whacked!' This is the usual response but I'm curious as to how smaller/newer major factions fit into this sort of proposal.
 
Major Faction

Ronan Vizsla

Ashes
Ronan Vizsla
Character Bio
Ariel Yvarro said:
My question here is about those new major factions who start out with their three hexes, and aside from the new faction mandate. What is there to stop a bigger major faction from curb-stomping the new guy? Cause I get wanting to take out the big blobs, that's all well and good but new itty bitty blobs that are just starting? Cool to curb-stomp those guys? 'You went major, you played the map game, now get whacked!' This is the usual response but I'm curious as to how smaller/newer major factions fit into this sort of proposal.
Click to expand...

I don't entirely buy into the 'You went Major, so you should be down to get whacked from the start', but that's why I mentioned in the proposal that it should be way more easy to gain territory.

A new Major Faction has 30 days of immunity.

Ideally, if this would get implemented the way I propose, that should be enough time for a new faction to expand and be large enough not to just get wiped out in a single invasion. I get that it might sound odd. But I think the self-internalized belief in this community that it should take 6 months or a year to become as big as the current major players is harmful to said community.

It shouldn't be such a time sink and it shouldn't be such a large effort in my opinion.
 

Ariel Yvarro

Guest
A
Ronan Vizsla Ronan Vizsla

I respect that you're not about that life, but you and I both know people who are, all about pvp and wiping out other factions just for the fun of pvp and their story.

I'm not sure that speeding things up is necessarily the solution here because I would like to see factions last longer (I'm like a minority here). I would prefer if factions/governments were played out longer to have more of an impact in the narrative, but that's just me. Should the grind be adjusted? Yeah, should invasions have more impact? Totally, hell I would love for skirmishes to have weight (let them take one hex neutral, pls).

I guess at the end of the day, I'm on the fence.

On the one hand, I would like to see a more dynamic map system and on the other hand, I also want factions/governments to last longer because holy hell they just turn over at breakneck speeds. I wish there was a better medium for both of these to somehow exist but at the end of the day. It's gonna go one way or another and not everyone is gonna be happy about it, which yeah, can't please everyone.
 
Major Faction

Teresa Pelles | Darth Pellax

———Blackened Valkyrie———
Teresa Pelles | Darth Pellax
Factory Judge
Character Bio
honestly I think we should remove the invade from wherever you are and limit it back to a certain distance for invasions to be possible. For the factionas like the AOC and the smaller factions that are more guerrilla fighter tactics there should be a mandate to support that play style. As it stands invasions are really broken as it is.

What i would rather see is factions cannot invade territory more than three hexes away unless you have X mandate to support it.
 
Major Faction

Fatty

Well-Known Member
Fatty
If we keep devaluing hexes, eventually we will reach a point where the hexes become obsolete, and factions will simply exist in the theater of mind, invading whatever they want just for the sake of fun rather than a true IC goal (a piece of territory).

Not bashing the suggestion or supporting it, just what I think is going to happen eventually if we go down this road.
 

Laira Darkhold

Well-Known Member
L
Ronan Vizsla Ronan Vizsla

Amendment to your Suggestion:
  • Capital Hexes must be invaded individually (IE, by themselves, just the one, the deep breath before the plunge, the tip of the spear into the enemy's heart) to be taken or turned neutral.
Beyond that, yes. Invasions should be bigger. Invasions are the biggest events on the board, so it goes to reason they should have the most influence on the board.

47imy7.jpg
 
Major Faction

Scherezade deWinter

The Blood Hound
Scherezade deWinter
Character Bio
Fatty said:
If we keep devaluing hexes, eventually we will reach a point where the hexes become obsolete, and factions will simply exist in the theater of mind, invading whatever they want just for the sake of fun rather than a true IC goal (a piece of territory).

Not bashing the suggestion or supporting it, just what I think is going to happen eventually if we go down this road.
Click to expand...

Yet this is already happening. Most planets, after their hexes are dommed, are left pretty much alone. There's no requirement to show activity involving or pertaining to the planets already in your system and in case one of those planets that a faction neglected such gets invaded it's all about fighting the headcanon and last second inventions anyway.
 
Last edited:

Vytal Noctura

N I G H T M O T H E R
Vytal Noctura
Character Bio
I don't have a system-wide solution, but I would like to mention the "little guy" in all this.

It's been brought up maybe the map game is stagnant at times. This may be true, depending on how rapidly one feels the galaxy should change.

It's been brought up Major Factions don't want to lose territory because effort was put in. That's true.

It's been brought up that not every planet that gets claimed by a Major Factions gets attention. That's also true (even ignoring the uninhabitable ones), though it's also true not everyone wants to manage an entire planet.

However, those planets that do get claimed can become developed. Subs are made, stories built, and when an invasion comes along these things can be disrupted, broken, or lost. Now, seeing how this is a role playing game and life doesn't always go the way you expect, and challenges can take stories in a new direction this should not be avoided at all costs... But maybe... sometimes invasions can take the story out of a player's hands. Not a faction's hands, but a player that did claim a planet with a desire to build that planet. Cut off from the faction because of an invasion can they still claim that sovereignty? What if a different faction takes over and they don't acknowledge the claim? Now it's not 'the story has changed' but an eviction.

In real life evictions happen. In real life things go horribly wrong. Then again, Chaos is not a model of real life, and why most come here.

However, for the sake of those that aren't participating and just want to do their own thing without the politics of the map game, I just wanted to posit that it's not just about hexes being lost or gained. There can be -- not always is -- an impact to things outside of the map game itself.

Not saying the current system is fine or great or the best it could be. Just making sure the "little guy" isn't forgotten.
 
Major Faction

LT-137

M E A T B A G
LT-137
Character Bio
As major faction's are the only ones that can truly claim any ownership over a planet, the risk that any content creator takes when fleshing out that system is that their work is subject to the whims of the major claiming their territory on the map. There's plenty of faction's that'd be more than happy to add your work into the fold, while others might not.

In many respects, it's about who you know and what you're able to offer a major faction.

However, therein lies the perceived and possible duality of the system - as there's the potential for minor faction's to ignore the map game and write their stories as they see fit in the private roleplaying forum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top Bottom