Feedback Invasion Relief Months

[Valiens Nantaris]

I am looking through with the admin team the many suggestions which have been raised.

One idea I have not seen raised and which I would like feedback on is about 'Invasion Relief'.

Simply, this would allow any major faction to designate one month out of every three as being closed to invasions; they cannot make or have new one initiated against them. Each faction chooses their own months.

Invasions running over a month end would continue but new ones could not be declared.

The reason I suggest this is because I've noticed many people saying that the burnout from invasions is an issue. This would allow factions to focus on domestic or internal threads for a time.

A faction does not have to use this if they don't want. December will remain an 'invasion free' time as always. With that in mind a faction would have 3 months they could designate in the year (non-concurrent) as being closed to invasions, with December being a fixed one.

We would keep track of it like mandates.

Thoughts?

(As always my vote is just for visibility)

 

[Judah Lesan]

Considering mandates can only be changed every 60 days I feel like making this a mandate defeats the purpose of a once a quarter invasion free month.

The idea of it being optional is still possible without it being a mandate yes?

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Of course. A faction would not have to do this, but they could if they wished.

 

[Daiya]

Yes, please. Invasion burnout is a real thing, and we've seen happen both unintentionally and abused maliciously. All Major Factions should be at risk from invasions, but also have their members' time and motivation respected. This seems like a fair way to do that, Majors will still be vulnerable to invasion 2/3s of the year and that seems totally fine.

All Majors, no mandate.

 

[Darth Bellum]

I believe that the drawback for having relief from invasions is that they cannot dedicate that month to doing Dominions. If a faction is undergoing strings of invasions, it is typically an effort to incur meaningful and lasting damage, either by the taking of territory or to perform cloud breaks. That being said, I think taking their ability to do Dominions away to try and recuperate losses and force them to pump out more faction oriented threads would be a good tradeoff from having other Major Factions breathing down their necks. This should apply regardless of whether it is turned into a mandate or not.

 

[Irveric Tavlar]

No.

Invasions are VERY RARELY done without narrative build up, a faction shouldn't have to scuttle or pause their narrative because the other faction arbitrarily decides they'll refuse to be invaded at all because 'its the assigned no invasion month'.

Whatever problem this is trying to solve, this isn't any solution. A mandate MAYBE could be acceptable in the exception that the faction can't expand with doms or by any other means, otherwise it'd be serving contradictory to any narrative explanation if theyre actively expanding but are magically immune to other factions invading them. I think whatever perceived problems there are should be addressed in how invasions work to begin with.

Julius Loghain did a great analysis here of how ludicrous the balance between invasions and idly expanding with doms is and of course Ronan Vizsla has a great addition to the 'war system' in the works here as well. In my opinion, every faction should be out to create an interesting narrative that has wide sweeping implications to the entirety of the setting, this could very well create another avenue of potentially withering great potential narrative in favor of 'keeping things as they are' which isn't always the course that is in the best interest of the health of the board. However yeah I do see the point of invasion fatigue being a real thing, hence why maybe if the cost -> output was changed people might see them differently.

EDIT: In short, the best changes that could be made right now should be the easier growth and loss of territory, not keeping things as is with a pause button.

 

[Ezra D. Tavlar]

I pointed this out in another suggestion before, but I believe what's needed is an actual true fix to the issue of invasions inevitably turning into a burnout fest, whether by intention or not. If the endgame, whether intended or not, tends to slide that way more often than not, then what's needed is a fix to address the issue in its entirety, and not what is in my humble opinion another bandaid. This is, as well as the idea of a partial map wipe, are essentially bandaids that may be applied to a wider issue, but not necessarily something which will fix the issue overall.

So uh,

respectfully i'ma vote no on this one big dawg.

 

[Kyra Perl]

As a mandate but with a cost would be great. For instance-- lose a hex every month you have it on. Can only dom 1 hex a month.

This forces a faction to keep up its activity and allows faction story to be the focus. You cannot abuse it by dodging things and growing your hex still. Essentially-- if you chose to be stagnant in the map game, this choice ripples out into all aspects of it PLUS the risk of deteriorating if you're not an active faction.

This is not a mandate to take if you are a dying faction.

Why I think this is good--
1-In order to pass activity check, you HAVE to write faction stories. A dom won't cover you here.

2-I would be able to interact with other factions and write the story of coming to their aid easier in times of stress if i was also not always at risk. As my ideal forefront story is people trying to help everyone (with the government being back noise to just answer the function of my hex) this would open many creative doors for me.

the risks--
1- someone who others think DESERVE to be invaded, cannot be. but if thats the issue, sounds like we got ooc things and that should be worked out. I would drop the mandate for a proffered narrative coming from a good place

2- someone turtles and avoids other factions forever

solution to risk

1- you can add 1-2 month periods throughout the year that the mandate is null and void, allowing others a chance to strike out. but that doesn't seem like the best ooc juju. idk maybe im just blithe but if a faction is doing their work with the activity check, they should be able to pay a steep price to not do invasions

2- idk man dont isolationist usually burn themselves out? why not let them get served their own karma and open up the creative doors for others.

i understand my perspective is likely a unique one, and others will say that this is SO BAD for reasons...... i wouldn't abuse myself. does this make me naive or you guys jaded? should we curb creative opportunity to curb the potential of someone deciding to close doors and play internal only? would this even be an issue if the ooc was positive?

I DUNNO!

But personally, i would take this mandate in a heart beat and be ALL OVER being there for other factions in their moments of strife. sjo is written like a support role. lemme do it dad

#open up those opportunities #allow collaborative stories a more positive place to grow #i hate invasions #i am so not going to win this one but i'll be the be the odd one out anyway

 

[Ria Misrani]

It should be 13, 13 // was trying to change vote and vote with my writer's account.

 

[Kyra Perl]

Ria Misrani omg did we just use the same emote at the same time? #twinning

 

[Irveric Tavlar]

As a mandate but with a cost would be great. For instance-- lose a hex every month you have it on. Can only dom 1 hex a month.

I agree with most of the points made here except this one, having a 1 for 1 trade means theres no real debuff

As Kainan Wolfe made in another thread, factions should try and weave narratives together not close off into their own bubbles, this is only a means of encouraging that.

No faction should ever feel 'safe' and 'comfortable'

Want to not be invaded? Ok then concede ground/territory, weave alliances or go galactic nomad to the boonies. You not wanting to be invaded shouldn't be someone elses problem if they want to pursue that narrative. Like Ezra D. Tavlar pointed out, invasion burnout is a real issue for sure but this isn't the fix, this is a band aid.

also ignore my accidental double vote into 'No'

 

[Ria Misrani]

Kyra Perl Maybe.

But also I support the uh, thing. Only cause I've been there, I've seen it happen. It's okay for a faction to take a break, not like invasions are just stopped like cold turkey. It's just a break, let that faction breathe you can go back to kicking their tail when it's over. Okay so they do dominions and they do faction threads like I don't know what you think these guys are gonna do when they're not getting invaded or not invading another group. That's probably the key time that they will be focused on developing their faction.

I don't understand why I would punish someone for taking a breath, or a group of people for taking a break and saying hey we just wanna chill next month. What was proposed doesn't make it like oh for the next THREE MONTHS NO ONE BOTHER US. No, it's just one. Just the one, and who knows if they'll be around long enough to make use of the other months? Narrative is one thing, but I'm sure building up narrative in the month that the opposing faction is taking a break from - isn't terrible.

If it's a mandate then it's 60 days, as opposed to 30, at a time.

So. Y'know, my two cents and what not.

 

[Argis Volmir]

Alright let's go on and cut straight to the heart of this. If you are gonna go this route make it a mandate and while active the factions that are doing it can't Dom anything and perhaps even lose a hex for each month they use it.

If you make it an optional thing, once more the factions that use it can't Dom anything during those months and perhaps lose a hex.

If you go with any other route of still allowing Doms while people are able to hide from invasions what are you really doing besides giving them time to clog the map more and hide in a safe space? If the territory isn't what's important to them then there should be no issue with this and they focus on Faction stories and other story based stuff right?

In short if you're a major faction either take your lumps with Invasions or go grab your Legos and play in a corner without expanding your territory and risk it deteriorating. Risk should come with being a stain on the map.

 

[Ria Misrani]

But why would you want them to lose a hex? Wouldn't you want them to have hexes for you to take? Wouldn't that like be part of the narrative too? They're not trying to hide, they just want a break. Like again, if this is a mandate it's 60 days and they don't have to change that mandate. The current proposed is just one month, then they're open season for another 60 days.

Like okay, cool, you really wanna go to war with x faction and y faction is just really up here and good at the stabbing. Like, cool x faction takes a break for thirty days. Those thirty days go up? Boom, drop the invasion, and they're open season for 60 days.

Then they get a month reprieve and you do too, you get time to make your toys develop your narrative just like they get to.

If it's a mandate, it's 60 days where they don't get an invasion.

And they don't have to change it necessarily.

Like oh no, how terrible a group of humans wants to focus on world-building their fan fiction together.

Oh hey, thirty days are up, time for the ganking again!

I honestly don't see where a faction taking a break is a terrible scenario when that just gives you time to build up your own narrative as well. Again, just helps with that story building and lets tempers if there are any cooldown, and people get to go to their corners.

Also, heads up, a dominion is a faction story - they just get to paint a color on the map for that story. As opposed to painting with the colors of the wind and gaining no territory.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

You should be able to remove your votes if you did it accidentally?

 

[Ria Misrani]

Valiens Nantaris it appears to have worked? I think I was able to hit the change vote and I think it got rid of it? Not sure.

 

[Ryv]

At no point was the Galactic Republic or Galactic Empire able to hit the:

"Okay, we're safe from war now!" button

When you sign on to be one of the major players in the great galactic game, you have agreed to face challenges to your faction and its storyline. The burnout is an issue, but it's only an issue due to people taking the results far too seriously. If factions didn't see losing their territory as a personal slight to their existence beyond the game, specifically a slight to who they are as people, they'd spend the time developing the narrative with the people attacking them. Creating an immunity option can grind an entire faction's narrative to a halt for nothing more than to provide people a safety net. Major factions should be applauded for seeking stories that entwine them with others. If that's a bunch of invasions, joint dominions, skirmishes, or forced diplo threads? That means the system is working.

The system ceases to work once you develop OOC mechanics to dictate whether or not a faction can pursue its narrative. Making a mandate could make sense, given they are flavored in a way that you can spin into a story point. I.e. contagious assault is literally a faction throwing the entirety of their forces at an enemy, hence why they lose an additional hex if they fail to defend themselves in an invasion. Their troops are on the front and fail to properly hold their territory. Inward perfection sees an entire faction's military dedicated to defending its borders, ensuring if one group is brazen enough to attack them, they will not yield ground elsewhere. All that makes sense, because you can explain it in-universe. While I'm sure you can develop some random explanation for:

"We are free from invasions!"

I feel like it'll feel gimmickry, to provide people who want the benefits of being a major, without the negative effects that come with it.

 

[Argis Volmir]

Ria Misrani

You know my policy on the map game. If someone's here to tell a story tell a story. If they're here to hoard hexes on a map and spread the stain like an infants spilled milk they need to be rethinking their time on Chaos. The hexes aren't the most important thing and losing a hex or two while you take a break from invasions shouldn't be too big a deal right?

Storytelling shouldn't be about "oh hey I want to have this hex and hide away from a part of the board without consequences."

You can feel like you're exhausted from Invasions sure but you shouldn't feel that way. Instead you should be focusing on writing the story with the invasions whether you win or lose. Hence circling around to what others have said, this isn't a fix to the issue, it's just a band-aid on a growth that's getting worse and worse like the blister on my toe.

Instead of even thinking about this how about reviewing the other suggestions that people brought up on acquiring and losing territory? That way people aren't getting up in their feelings about losing or gaining territory.

(Edit made due to being too Waddles in my original phrasing)

 

[Kyra Perl]

Irveric Tavlar im totally down for new numbers to make the trade off more a debuff-- i agree it absolutely should be

we shouldn't ever feel safe as a MF, but a faction shouldn't break cause the fo does




this is not only a tool to allow people like me to tell my story better-- it's also a tool help a faction stay healthy


imo? there is no one fix to this invasion issue. and calling every suggestion "just a bandaid" devalues the small contribution it brings to the table


instead, I'd like to look at all the small suggestions we've been seeing crop up and ask ourselves how we can combine them into one stable result for how factions relate to invasions.


Is this one of those solutions to consider? IDUNNO! It sure is a new concept for chaos, huh?


But I would take it and I would use it to raise this place up, and that's a cool thought I just thought to throw in.


Das my peace. thanks for tuning in

 

[The Red of Sinner]

I don't get it....everyone is discussing Invasion Burnout, meaning there's too much invasioning going on....and are saying no to a Month or two of no invasions....then go on to say no faction should be safe so make it a mandate ...so a faction is safe....am I only the one seeing the redundancy with this? A invasion free month means NO ONE gets invaded....and narratives can be planned and built with more focus...
Idk, to be against something that benefits EVERYONE with no negatives to it other than thirsty writers can't thirst seems....obvious of what I'm implying.
You can't invade that month? Doesn't effect your narrative at all, does NOT stop your narrative, it only slows it down. And gives everyone a breather. Dominions can still be done, faction threads can still be done, anything that can continue the narrative outside PvP can be done....and there's plenty of background noise that happens during war that can be wrote about....