Question How do you use/write NPCs?

[Auteme]

Kind of came across this problem recently, during GA's Dominion of Roxuli. In that thread, Auteme was part of negotiations with miners from a Chiss community. I found it difficult to write the NPCs (so basically I didn't) because it felt disingenuous for me to give them an opinion one way or another about what Auteme said. Which is... weird, for a number of reasons. First, I really enjoy dialogue, and this would've been one of the few opportunities I had to write in interruptions and quick back-and-forth; second, I do have a pretty clear understanding of Auteme and her 'place' in the galaxy in terms of her influence, as well as her skill as a speaker and negotiator; third, lots of other people in the thread seemed really comfortable and were effective in writing NPCs.

Nonetheless I have this worry that if I write in NPCs (no matter what they say) it'll come off as self-aggrandizing in some manner. Am I being irrational? How do you find writing NPCs, and what ideas do you have on how to write them effectively?

must tag Jacen Nimdok

 

[Teica Giraan]

Maybe list 5 words to describe the NPC's relationship with your PC. Start writing dialogue, and make sure it fits well with the list's theme?
But yeah, it can very much be hard.

 

[Matthew Locke]

Poorly

 

[Kal]

Most of my NPCs are glorified scenery who may, if I'm feeling particularly generous, get a line or two of dialogue. Only on the rarest of occasions do they exist for any reason but to further PC-focused plots, making them little more than living McGuffins with one or two character traits.

Good advice? Good lord no, I'm as clueless as you if not more so - I'm here to see what bright ideas other people have.

If we're talking crowds (say, miners she's trying to persuade to do/accept something), I would start off with a rough idea (do they look scruffy or tidy, are they positively or negatively inclined towards the Alliance) then maybe throw in a name or two with one or two simple character traits. If you want to spice things up, roll for their reactions D&D-style - that can stir things up in the absence of PCs creating chaos.​

 

[Subject 73 Red]

Kind of came across this problem recently, during GA's Dominion of Roxuli. In that thread, Auteme was part of negotiations with miners from a Chiss community. I found it difficult to write the NPCs (so basically I didn't) because it felt disingenuous for me to give them an opinion one way or another about what Auteme said. Which is... weird, for a number of reasons. First, I really enjoy dialogue, and this would've been one of the few opportunities I had to write in interruptions and quick back-and-forth; second, I do have a pretty clear understanding of Auteme and her 'place' in the galaxy in terms of her influence, as well as her skill as a speaker and negotiator; third, lots of other people in the thread seemed really comfortable and were effective in writing NPCs.

Nonetheless I have this worry that if I write in NPCs (no matter what they say) it'll come off as self-aggrandizing in some manner. Am I being irrational? How do you find writing NPCs, and what ideas do you have on how to write them effectively?

must tag Jacen Nimdok

Honestly it comes pretty natural to me. It just feels pretty fluid, but then again, I've written NPCs for a while and I do it often. You probably just need some practice and experience before you find your flow in writing them and become comfortable writing them.

Just don't sweat it, if you stop worrying about it and relax, you'll be able to find your flow and write them how you want to no problem. Just don't worry about what the other people are thinking, but yourself into the NPCs thoughts.

When you write NPCs, you're creating their own personality and shaping their thought process. Try to get into that head of theirs that you created. You're shaping their thoughts, personality, and actions. No matter what you make them do, whatever they do is them. Even if it feels disingenuous and self-aggrandizing, that's how you want them to be. That's how you naturally and subconsciously want them to be. If they're coming out that way, then that's how they should naturally feel, nothing wrong with that. Whatever you make them do, that's what your brain has decided what come natural with the NPC.

And honestly, I see no problem with that.

 

[Ares]

It depends on the context I'd say.

So long as you have them behave as they should (having logical motivations, etc), then it should be totally fine. OOC, NPCs are tools for the story. They allow our characters to make decisions or do things that doesn't necessarily require another player character. So if you're a Jedi facing Sith Troops, they're NPCs that are there to provide resistance to your efforts. If they ultimately fail in those efforts, that's fine, same if they succeed, it's up to you. No one's going to complain if your character successfully negotiates with a bunch of miners and I don't think it's self-aggrandizing if they do. And of course, you can't always understand the perspective of someone perfectly. It's okay to get it wrong. What's important is that they serve their purpose to the story. Maybe the miners have some motivation that is very personal to them, and relates to your character's own personal motivations/feelings/thoughts on a subject, or is in opposition to it.

Now, using NPCs just to elevate your character for seemingly no reason than ego, or to lower other people's characters, or to make a faction or someone's character look inept through them is pretty self-aggrandizing. But so long as you're not actually going out of your way to do that, it's fine. Ultimately it's the intention that matters. If it fits the story for a bunch of NPCs to lose/win/do nothing, then there shouldn't be a problem with it.

There's somethings to be said about respecting specific NPCs that someone might create (like a companion of another PC or something like that) but it depends on the context and is probably better getting into in another discussion.

 

[Bernard of Arca]

I think the worry of writing seeming 'self-aggrandizing' when writing NPCs could possibly stem in great part from two things: 1) the caution with which we're taught to approach NPCs in Invasions (and by golly there've been a lot of those), where NPC opposition tends to be sacred and untouchable for anyone but their writer at times, and 2) an extreme focus on a single character.

1) is just a hypothesis and I'm probably off my rocker there, but 2), I think, has some merit. Most of our time and focus is put on developing the one (or handful, though interaction between them only occurs in very isolated cases) of characters we write. We make sure they have a solid history (at least on imaginary paper), a personality, a voice, an aesthetic, and all the other things that make up a successful character on Chaos, but it's rare that NPCs get a fraction of that work put into them.

In conventional writing an author would spend a good deal of time figuring out most of their characters and their plot before they leap into the process of getting letters on a page, and for good reason. How can a cardboard cut-out that's flatter than a cutting board have a complex and rich inner world to formulate a nuanced political opinion, which reacts organically to outside stimuli? Ihavenocluethiswasmostlyarhetoricalquestion.

So what I do whenever I need to think of cool characters on the spot is I consider some aspects about them that would make them memorable and have their own agency. There's a really cool article on creating NPCs for tabletop RPGs which helps with that (though not the entire template might be needed, e.g. "Roleplaying" might be replaced with "Mannerisms", or "Quote" might be removed entirely). It's helped me figure out how to create the most bare-bones basic details for a character I might need to write. The only addition I've made is to include a motivation for them, can be a basic one like "get a burger", anything to make it easier to tell what they might want out of any particular scene.

It's definitely a little time consuming and not the easiest thing to do, but whenever I do need an NPC that's more than set-dressing, outlining some key details and giving them motivations has come in really handy.

 

[Melydia Gold]

Nonetheless I have this worry that if I write in NPCs (no matter what they say) it'll come off as self-aggrandizing in some manner.

To some, you might sound that way, and that's okay.

To me, at least, NPCs offer a unique opportunity to add extra layers to a post, especially with their dialogue. There have been a couple of times where I have relied on such dialogue as a sparknotes for understanding the mood of the post/scenery the writer's going for. Having extra voices present, even if they're not individual writers, still provides a more holistic picture of the world one's writing in.

I find it's only as self-aggrandizing, as you put it, as you make it. Sure, all the NPCs can be in general favor of your character, but with that is also the opportunity to voice some opposition, especially some regarding a flaw or detail about your character that PCs don't generally tend to pick up on.

 

[Dagon Kaze]

imo NPCs are there to facilitate a story, tools in essence; if you go with the story already written in ur head, use the NPCs as navigators to guide you through it.

all in all, i think as long as you got the story down then NPCs write themselves more or less.

oh, i also use them NPCs to throw curveballs like crazy.

Auteme

 

[Bright4]

From my experince, I use them to craft whatever makes sense and what I think might be a fun story twist. Maybe you convince some of the miners, but you have that one old timer who don't trust no force users and starts making up claims on a spot to cause the rest of his fellows to start prodding or being unwilling to agree, meaning now you gotta figure out what to say to convince them and silence the boomer that's kicked up a hornets nest. Sometimes you can just use them to build up an event that's about to go south. Depends what your going for, but I just use them to help tell the story, though hopefully the act of doing so won't detract from it.

 

[Jacen Nimdok]

Auteme

I have been summoned, on a measly 2 hours of sleep, to find everyone else has already said everything that could be said. Except maybe, I dunno... if you’re worried about being self-aggrandizing, then have the NPCs oppose your PC. Or at least inject some comedic self-awareness into the proceedings. That’s what I’d do. I think. now, where’s my bed?...

P.S. don’t listen to Kal he is stinky

 

[Liram Angellus]

My method of use of NPCs is basically a cheap excuse to not add them to my character list.

 

[Elle Mors]

I just write NPCs the same way I write my PCs, provided they have a name. They're just as much a character as the one pictured in the account I post with, and they get proportionate story & dialogue & backstory as whatever screen time they get. I tend to think of that stuff before/as I introduce them because if I ever decide I want to turn them into PCs (like I did with Nadja Keto once upon a time) I want to know as much about them as possible.

They aren't there to serve a purpose or anything for me, just to be more characters to make a post more acceptable. You wouldn't have just one single person controlling a capital ship or something, would you?

 

[Elpsis Kerrigan]

Prefacing this by saying that I'm mainly focusing on NPCs with a strong connection to a PC, who are used frequently, and less on those that serve a specific purpose for a single scene or thread. NPCs fall into two categories to me: Background noise and supporting cast. I'm focusing more on the latter.

Even an NPC villain is supporting cast because its intended as a vessel to bring about a character's growth (like a Sith Lord I used to beat up Sio or the Jedi zealots who brainwashed Elpsis in a big thread I did a while ago). That can be something as simple as the villain of a dominion thread or an NPC enemy your character has a rivalry with (best to make them an actual threat then and give them some wins - a hero is only as good as their foes).

Presently writing a solo thread for Elpsis' NPC clone Kyriaki. Somehow, she even got her own Factory subs and NPC posse (and and antagonists). She and Elpsis will eventually meet. It'll be a huge part of Elpsis' story, but Kyriaki will continue being her own person. Hmm I maybe I should make her a PC at some point, as I did with Libertas and Vaena.

Far as I'm concerned, a fleshed out NPC is an PC without an account (and without the benefit of total plot armour). They have their own stories, motivations and personalities.

I use NPCs quite a lot in Elpsis' story. She's a junior officer in Firemane, with her own platoon, so it makes sense that she has people to boss around and take orders from. So over time she got a 'core crew' that is comprised of her main squad. The key members of this group have individual NPC subs (Nyssa Vykaris, Diona, Rhea, Shikoba, Natalie Dorne, Zhaleh) the less important ones are detailed in a crew sub. Of course, not all of them show up all the time.

They tag along in threads, fight and, you know, interact with her and challenge her viewpoints. The interactions are further fleshed out in blog posts. It's important to me that each has their own voice and opinions and isn't just there to be a drone. One person can't do everything...and Elpsis is new to command. And she has NPC bosses she answers to...who actually act like her bosses instead of her pals (her CO doesn't even like her at all and Elpsis has to suck it up).

To me it's only self-aggrandising if you're inserting an NPC into a story to fawn over your character and bloviate about how great they are (even if they're generally in favour of your PC, they probably won't do that all the time)...but that's lame because then you're not writing a person. To use your example, it would be self-aggrandising if those miners all just sucked up to Auteme and were just used to exalt her or her faction as a character. I'd just pick one or two, paint a picture in my head of who they are, what their issues are, what they think about the GA/NJO. You don't need to write a novella for background cast. It's not self-aggrandising to write people...interacting with her. Auteme's a diplomat type, talking is what she does.

Her squad has featured in the Ziost invasion and the Annihilation. Tehy fought NPC mooks and otherwise contributed in a way that doesn't interfere in PC vs PC combat.

I proceed similarly with my PCs Kaida, Siobhan and Enyo, though these are less active. With Kaida it's similar to Elpsis, whereas Sio's NPC retinue features a lot of people who'd help her run Firemane and other aspects of her power base.

 

[Tae'l Vizsla]

How do you find writing NPCs

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

 

[Jsc]

Outside of PvP, there are no NPCs or PCs for me. It's all just character writing. Just do character writing.

Also. Self aggrandizing is silly. My avatar is self aggrandizing. My profile is aggrandizing. My way of speaking is aggrandizing. Hell, I aim to be aggrandizing so I can attract other writers into my stories. I aggrandize everything. It's great. I'll aggrandize you and your character's too. Maybe not like 'Mary Sue' level of granduer? But definitely up to superhero level. That's par. I love aggrandizing. It's what RP is all about. Do et! Aggrandize all the things! Woo!

 

[Aayla Shan]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

nodnod

 

[Atlas Drake]

Auteme

I won't pile on with more broad advice on finding an NPC's voice, but as someone familiar with the storyline that precipitated this discussion I can give you some feedback on 'throwaway' objective NPCs. In this particular example I've found writers are reluctant to assume direct control as it were for much the same reason many writers are reluctant to push the plot forward in their posts rather than behaving purely reactionary. Fear of 'misreading' the narrative, personifying characters in a way that might clash with how other writers expect or desire a story to play out.

Like with improvisation in action scenes, voicing NPCs is an example of 'yes and' writing that drives freeform collaborative threads. Most of the time your initiative is heartily welcomed and even when you occasionally get it 'wrong' its not the end of the world. Its like making action edits because you misread a scene, definitely a woops moment but nobody is going to get judgmental on you for misinterpreting a random NPC's characterization.

 

[Roudac Gannan]

I push scene with every post. I use NPCs to do that, sometimes. It's required, every so often..

As for being self-aggrandizing, that's up to you to find a balance you're comfortable with. I've had NPCs that oppose my character before. Other times they don't, and fall in line. It's all about what helps the plot continue, especially as mentioned above, some don't like to do that or are reluctant to - so someone has to.

Anyway, I tend to focus my NPCs on giving a chance of pace to internal monologue - they'll ask questions and let my PC speak a bit, especially if they're secluded or not easily in contact with other PCs, etc. Or providing throwaway antagonists.

My advice to you Auteme : Write for your enjoyment. NPCs or not, people's standards can be exacting. Write for you, have fun, be open to adjustments if needed - especially concerning NPCs - but otherwise don't hamstring yourself for fear of perceived scrutiny. There's always someone who has issue with someone else's stuff, it's part of it.

 

[Tae'l Vizsla]

Just wanted to say that this thread has actually inspired me to approach NPCing groups again. Gonna try and submit Tayl's fireteam buddies in death watch sometime, Flesh them out and make her interactions with her commanding officer and buddies a little more believable