Discussion Force Suppression?

[Ronhar Tane]

Hey folks! There’s been something on my mind that’s been bugging me for a while now. So as a factory nerd, one thing I enjoy doing is checking out all of the really cool and unusual factory submissions that people make, regardless of affiliation or faction. There’s a ton of really cool stuff on this site that people have created! However, one thing I’ve noticed is that the idea of “force suppression” or “force nullification” will sometimes be added as a weakness to a submission. For me, that begs the question: if you’re dogfighting or fleeting, how do you actually use force suppression or force nullification? Outside of like void stones or Ysalamari or the “disruption tech” that some people (like me) have created, how do players counter alchemized starships/vehicles and force powers, if at all? As a primarily NFU based faction, and ideas would be welcomed, and honestly I’m just curious to see if I’ve been missing anything.

 

[Allyson Locke]

Outside of like void stones or Ysalamari or the “disruption tech” that some people (like me) have created, how do players counter alchemized starships/vehicles and force powers, if at all?

I feel like in a sense, you answered your own question. I can help narrow it down for you to help others answers though. Are you looking in particular for other tech that would do what you have created just with other ideas?

 

[Ronhar Tane]

I feel like in a sense, you answered your own question. I can help narrow it down for you to help others answers though. Are you looking in particular for other tech that would do what you have created just with other ideas?

Yeah pretty much, was just curious if their existed anything that’s player made besides some of my stuff (I know N&Z has a crystal that kinda does that but not entirely)

 

[Alan]

A gun

 

[Joy]

I think force suppression, or force nullification technology, animals etc. should be banned for the same reasons why Celestials are banned as a playable race, and why nuclear bombs are not allowed either. It would certainly end the wikiepedia styled posts you see in PvP.

 

[Vaux Gred]

I think force suppression, or force nullification technology, animals etc. should be banned for the same reasons why Celestials are banned as a playable race, and why nuclear bombs are not allowed either. It would certainly end the wikiepedia styled posts you see in PvP.

I mean, counterpoint, any form of Baradium weapon is allowed, and arguably more destructive, but let’s focus on the force suppression bit. So for one Force suppressing species just have been a common enough thing in the universe for a long time, and in many ways expected, but also mean you won’t necessarily always be able to purely rely on the Force. Now this can lead to some tricky things depending on the character (for my Lervon for example this is a hard shutdown, but they’re basically Sandman, so not the worse drawback). Plus, even the use of this stuff is generally either story driven or discussed before hand.

This also gets into the weird range of what counts are Force suppression bit. Watto’s species (I forget the name) is noted to be resistant to the Force mind tricks in The Phantom Menace. Does that mean they should be banned? What about stuff like Mando bucklers and those concussion gauntlet things. Not specifically anti-Force, but built around ways to handle Force users. Heck, it can also create some interesting narratives.

 

[Joy]

Vaux Gred

It has nothing to do with lore, the species, or the technology itself. If you've ever stopped to read, or interact with someone using these things in invasions, duel threads etc. then it is either an extremely bad read or it wasn't a fun interaction. People can't be trusted to write this type of stuff in my opinion.

 

[Amelia von Sorenn]

I think force suppression, or force nullification technology, animals etc. should be banned for the same reasons why Celestials are banned as a playable race, and why nuclear bombs are not allowed either. It would certainly end the wikiepedia styled posts you see in PvP.

Sure, ban a big component of leveling the playing field in an NFU v FU fight.

That only inhibits RP because why would you ever RP an NFU if those things didn't exist?

The only reason to ban Force Suppression or Force Nullification is because you feel it takes away from or threatens the perceived “Super Specialness” of a Force User. Honestly, unlike the old days of Chaos, there has been far less Anti-FU Tech subbed / in use these last few years since the Ysalamiri Boom back in the day which generated its own fatigue.

The better idea, instead of outright banning Force Suppression or Force Nullification is to communicate with your writing partner to create a compelling story; but that’s a conversation many people don’t want to have or hear.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Be built different

 

[Ronhar Tane]

Be built different

So...round 3 then?

 

[Joy]

The better idea, instead of outright banning Force Suppression or Force Nullification is to communicate with your writing partner to create a compelling story; but that's a conversation many people don't want to have or hear.

It is hard to have a conversation with someone when it boils down to, "I don't like the post and I don't want to continue writing with you unless you stop or make changes to how we are writing together."

The reason why this conversation is too difficult to have with most people is because people are easily offended or they themselves have spent so much time writing the post itself that to make alterations becomes a chore.

Besides that, particularly in invasions, despite everyone being aware that the decision of who wins comes down to whether it was a good story or not (for the deciding administrator), everyone still writes in a ethos of "I must win". It comes down to powergaming which will always be a thing when it comes down to roleplay.

I genuinely think we would all have a better time if we got rid of the anti-FU and the overpowered Force Powers.

Star Wars was about Lightsaber fights, people being cunning, strategic, or resilient. I haven't been seeing that much in the past few invasions I have participated in these past two years.

 

[Ronhar Tane]

I genuinely think we would all have a better time if we got rid of the anti-FU and the overpowered Force Powers.

To be fair, I think much of the impetus to create these technologies would be gone if we had more “moderated” force powers, though I also understand that people want to RP the all-powerful, wizened Jedi/Sith master that can use these abilities. As a primarily NFU, believe me when I say I’m the first to get it, though I try to keep an open mind. After all, who’s to say I won’t want to make a character like that in the future? Whether or not I SHOULD be able to is an entirely different matter though!

 

[R'ayne Asara]

Ronhar Tane

For most Dark Side alchemized creations, normally Light Side abilities can counter or outright nullify the alchemized object, for ships I would say would have the same effect. My knowledge of Light Side abilities is, surprise... surprise, very lacking, but that is what was explained to me by a long former Factory Judge, and on Wookiepedia there are explanations of such Light Side abilities.

Suppression and Nullification, especially tech based objects, are found all over Wookiepedia, though some explanations are vague and easily up for debate between people.

Though take Wookiepedia with a grain of salt.

But countering Force attacks of any sect, offset or disrupt, comes down to the writer's ability to be creative.

And on the topic of Force abilities, especially with the Dark Side (Sith Magic, Sith Rituals, and Dathomir Magic) that are considered overpowered really has zero chance of realistically being conjured in a thread, mainly two facets; concentration and time, neither are realistically available in a fight. Duels or fleeting. Which is where the cheat code comes in...alchemy.

 

[Joy]

I also do want to reiterate that while I have shared my opinion it is also true (at least for me) that people should write whatever you want (so long as it is in the rules). Whether I or other people like your characters and their posts is irrelevant. So long as you think it is fine then I can kick rocks for all you care.

 

[Alan]

That only inhibits RP because why would you ever RP an NFU if those things didn't exist?

 

[Darth Avida]

Outside of like void stones or Ysalamari or the “disruption tech” that some people (like me) have created, how do players counter alchemized starships/vehicles and force powers, if at all? As a primarily NFU based faction, and ideas would be welcomed, and honestly I’m just curious to see if I’ve been missing anything.

I'll be honest, you can just write that whatever it was that they were doing wasn't enough to stop you/hinder you/etc. Without having a specific example to give you a specific example of what that would look like I can't really give you much more than this, but it doesn't require a ysalamir or some kind of nullification of the force (I am unsure what even does this, because void stone sure doesn't). You decide how what another writer puts into their post effects you, not lore or canon or precedence or whatever other idea you might have been led to believe - you, and you alone, decide what happens to your character, or your ships, or whatever. If the person you are writing with is being so obtuse that they can't work out a scene playing out that is in some way entertaining or beneficial to you both then maybe you should stop writing with them - this goes the other way, too. You shouldn't go into a thread with another person and expect things to go your way just because you have more things than the other person, whether you have force powers or special factory subs or canon rocks or whatever.

In situations where it truly boils down to making the choice of how things work on a meta level it is up to you to "counter" force powers or alchemy or fancy tech, not on something that isn't writing the contents of your post. There's no need to ban any of these things when your own writing dictates what happens for you.

 

[Tiber Fel]

I'll be honest, you can just write that whatever it was that they were doing wasn't enough to stop you/hinder you/etc. Without having a specific example to give you a specific example of what that would look like I can't really give you much more than this, but it doesn't require a ysalamir or some kind of nullification of the force (I am unsure what even does this, because void stone sure doesn't). You decide how what another writer puts into their post effects you, not lore or canon or precedence or whatever other idea you might have been led to believe - you, and you alone, decide what happens to your character, or your ships, or whatever. If the person you are writing with is being so obtuse that they can't work out a scene playing out that is in some way entertaining or beneficial to you both then maybe you should stop writing with them - this goes the other way, too. You shouldn't go into a thread with another person and expect things to go your way just because you have more things than the other person, whether you have force powers or special factory subs or canon rocks or whatever.

In situations where it truly boils down to making the choice of how things work on a meta level it is up to you to "counter" force powers or alchemy or fancy tech, not on something that isn't writing the contents of your post. There's no need to ban any of these things when your own writing dictates what happens for you.

^ This is the best take.

I followed the discussion so far, and while there are "hard counters" to Force powers which you can sub yourself and make your NFU/object/vehicle more resilient to mystic-make-belief - the easiest option is through communication with the opposing side and apply the above of what Darth Avida said. Any drama, unfairness, pettiness, powergaming or whatever one wants to call it, will be avoided by simply communicating with the opposing side.

Through communication, you can also "go around" some limitations that simple factory subs have. Like in the next fight with some rebel-scum Jedi who blow up your junk - just brainstorm some narrative that some archeo-tech is used to negate the Force/seriously disturb for this thread (pretty sure there is a mandate or some special hexes for that too) or till that object is destroyed. In the next thread there will be no ships bigger than 500m etc.

Communication, narrative, balance. Need no hard, techy counter to storytelling, just two sides willing to have fun.