Character Creation Checks.

[Darth Carnifex]

I would have never made it here if my character bio had to be approved.

I mean, have you actually looked at that thing?

It's a hack-job.

 

[Darth Immortus]

The point is that it would only do more harm than good to have such a change to the board now. Sure, it'd cut out the "undesirables" that you don't want to deal with, or force them to conform their bios to a standardized template enforced by the staff, but that doesn't mean it'll become an utopia. Nor does any one member of the staff agree on what is quality and desirable or not.

Elitism is bad. Don't care how you try to spin it, it will remain such.

Strawman argument. No one is claiming that approval system equals utopia.

Your second comment about the staff strikes me as slightly odd. Presumably, the staff have been made staff under the tacit belief that their opinions are somehow worth more than the average member. In other words, they are people that can be counted on to possess correct knowledge and judgement on given situations that a normal or less experienced member may lack. You will never achieve pure egalitarianism. Having staff and Roleplay Judges in the first place is a form of elitism. To suggest that the staff cannot come to reasonable agreements together is to negate the purpose of a board staff altogether.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

I would have never made it here if my character bio had to be approved.

Same here

 

[Flannigan Mcnash]

You must forgive my ignorance [member="Lily Kirsche Kuhn"], the context of the sentence and the placement of 'you' suggested you were talk to me and not some third party. I'm sure they could derive the meaning from the text but it was lost on me in translation, and for that I'm sorry.

Elitism is bad. Don't care how you try to spin it, it will remain such.

Before we deal in absolutes, lets get the definition of elitism.

As my elitist brother [member="Darth Immortus"], said "Balance is necessary". And it is true, the site is old and such a drastic change would alter the landscape in unforeseeable ways, so an app system cannot exist on here without the app-ocalypse. But the current system can be refined and as I said "lets work together". Maybe a large force of Staff to look and suggest not tell suggest alterations.

 

[Jsc]

I'm actually going to show some support to my man Immortus here.

Balance is a good thing. His words. And, I believe, right where his comments are coming from. That means something to me. I believe in balance too. I believe that the will of the membership will determine what they get. I think Staff is pretty reasonable and will give us what we want, if we ask loud enough. Understanding, yes, that they desire to keep their roles as minimalistic as possible. Thus respecting Staffs time. Again, balance. I think Immortus sees the potential to help people craft better characters, and better RP experiences, by giving them feedback. Early. And I think he's seen places where that works miracles.

So yeah. While many of us might be opposed to the idea of Staff Moderated Approvals. (Such as myself) ...I'll never fault a man for having a greater understanding of how balance can create great things.

 

[Nyxie]

I wish there was an approval system in place.

It would filter out so many bad roleplayers, and it would be great.

People don't like it because it's viewed as a removal of liberty rather than an imposition of quality control. It'd be like trying to take away democracy from people. Once you give everyone empowerment, good luck ever trying to take it away. Everyone would just rage on and on about "muh artistic freedoms" or whatever.

This can be seen as incredibly demeaning; what you view as "quality" is strictly a matter of opinion, and is one expressed by yourself, an individual. With that kind of mentality, there will most certainly never be an approval system in place. As you quite literally said yourself, it's an imposition of control. In this case, the quality aspect is subjective. We shouldn't have anyone else's standards imposed on us, be it bias of board owner, complaints of particular players, or otherwise.

This also ties in to the removal of the "powers" rule; if you think it doesn't meet your standards of quality or consistency, don't roleplay with said players/characters. It's a freedom given to us not only to regulate our own characters but to choose when we must or mustn't roleplay ourselves.

Back in the light of whether there should be checks (not Approvals), I think this ties in again to what I was saying about being trusted to handle ourselves with character creation as well as with roleplay, which players can point anything out they see as unfit, and usually if edits are suggested or inconsistencies are pointed out, they're usually corrected by the owner pretty moderately. Everything works along as a community, and thus far, that system has been the effective one.

TLDR: It's easier and less frequent for staff to police us when we "mess up" than it is for them to govern us before we can make the mistake. That's the report button in a nutshell. We should be able to handle ourselves (as a responsibility).

[Edit] I really hate seeing the term "bad roleplayers" get used on boards, as for some of these individuals, that may be their par or even their best. That doesn't make them bad per'se, just inexperienced. They won't be taught or learn anything by being chastised or shunned out of a community by any degree of restriction or set expectation.

 

[Darth Immortus]

I appreciate your comment, [member="Jay Scott Clark"]

 

[sabrina]

If bio had to be approved, I would have no characters.

It's a none starter

Bio is only log, it is the rp what counts as at the end of the day, that's what we are here for.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

I recently visited another RP board, different genre to this, but interesting regardless. However, they had a three tier approval system in place. As soon as I saw that I rejected even trying to register. But I did have a look at the RPs current to that site, and they were bad.

Character approvals does not equate to great RPing or writers.

 

[Nyxie]

Three reasons why we don't use an Approval system (and why one is bad):

1. Approval systems are usually built around site owners' opinions of what deserves approval.
2. Those opinions may be reformed by the membership, often frequently and constantly (think patches balancing out PVP games).
3. The entire balance of the game hangs in a collage of rules, standards and grandfathered apps held to various standards due to these changes.

And that's why it's been so heavily avoided here. ^^

 

[Jsc]

No sweat man. Same team.

*nevermind second half*

 

[Darth Immortus]

This can be seen as incredibly demeaning; what you view as "quality" is strictly a matter of opinion, and is one expressed by yourself, an individual. With that kind of mentality, there will most certainly never be an approval system in place. As you quite literally said yourself, it's an imposition of control. In this case, the quality aspect is subjective. We shouldn't have anyone else's standards imposed on us, be it bias of board owner, complaints of particular players, or otherwise.

<Implying roleplaying standards are entirely subjective

If that's truly the case, if good and bad writing is truly in the eye of the beholder as you claim, then why do we have Roleplay Judges? Rules against godmoding? Codex Judges? Technology approval systems?

Once again, this is nothing but crazy talk. Of course there are basic, objective standards that everyone can and should be expected to agree to. You basically admit this by saying people should just "ignore" and not roleplay with those whose posts offend us, which is in itself a form of quality control, albeit a haphazard and unwritten one.

TLDR: It's easier and less frequent for staff to police us when we "mess up" than it is for them to govern us before we can make the mistake.

If you write something in your bio that doesn't make sense, doesn't fit with the timeline, etc. and the staff catches it, is not the same thing as the staff "governing" you before you make a mistake. By virtue of the fact that you have made the mistake already. The only difference is the staff caught it before you entered a thread and caused someone to call a RP Judge.

 

[Nyxie]

If that's truly the case, if good and bad writing is truly in the eye of the beholder as you claim, then why do we have Roleplay Judges? Rules against godmoding? Codex Judges? Technology approval systems?

I can answer this with a staff announcement quote.

Hello Chaos,

Just tossing out this general reminder that if there is a concern or issue with another writer, please talk to each other first before reporting it.

The RPJ's are here to be the last and final call if all means of attempting to find a resolution through a conversation with another writer are exhausted. A quick and courteous conversation via PM may settle any questions or concerns you might have off the bat to get you back into the RP game!

It's really this simple:

If people can't handle things themselves, then they're incredibly immature and maybe even a bit unrefined.

The staff aren't there to rule our lives. They're there to help us play, and most often they're misinterpreted as police or governors when they're really agents there to help us make our RP better, not to cut out all the bad. Saying we need them to do all of these things is openly and quite literally admitting that we cannot handle ourselves as writers or individuals.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Darth Immortus"]

Suggestion. You use the word 'Staff' a lot in your post about profile feedback. I think you might have better luck reaching an audience, and your debaters, if you tweaked this word a bit. Let's say... "Volunteering Members". Or perhaps, "Community Support Volunteers". Heck, maybe they are appointed by Staff to their roles? But let's not call them Staff, with a big S. Gives the wrong impression. We need more little s.

I believe that this community can critique itself. I think many would volunteer to do so gladly. And, yes, I think you're argument would be completely revitalized by just tweaking the word 'Staff', into the assumption of "supportive volunteers". 2 cents.

 

[Darth Immortus]

I can answer this with a staff announcement quote.

Nowhere in the quote does it say that good and bad writing is subjective. The quote you provided is just encouraging people to settle disputes amongst themselves rather than constantly invoking staff, as a matter of practicality and time-saving.

 

[Darth Immortus]

Suggestion. You use the word 'Staff' a lot in your post about profile feedback. I think you might have better luck reaching an audience, and your debaters, if you tweaked this word a bit. Let's say... "Volunteering Members". Or perhaps, "Community Support Volunteers". Heck, maybe they are appointed by Staff to their roles? But let's not call them Staff, with a big S. Gives the wrong impression. We need more little s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0​

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[trigger warning - language!]​

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[Flannigan Mcnash]

Now come [member="sabrina"], they're not the devil nor do regulations hide under your bed. It's not about being a good writer, or even a good role-player, someone would've helped you in the right system, made you explain and expand your character develop beyond the realm of ideas. Who is your character and what are their motivations, and maybe the character would've improved for it.

[member="Nyxie"], this has always been an open wound for me. The everyone is right and it all is a matter of opinion, true it is but there are still systems. Lets not dash the last century of writing for opinions, and not everyone is a good writer even if in their opinion they are. A book will get panned if it isn't written well, a movie will die(well maybe not with some of the crap recently made). Why does this get a free pass, sure it's smaller than those two and this is for enjoyment but there are some constants.

The definition of role-play, sure there's some interpretation and lean-way, but we can assume from this definition that being good at role-playing is being good at performing that particular role.

The RPJ's are here to be the last and final call if all means of attempting to find a resolution through a conversation with another writer are exhausted. A quick and courteous conversation via PM may settle any questions or concerns you might have off the bat to get you back into the RP game!

Lets break this down, it 'may'. And also there's the salt of the wounds, tell me you don't get angry when someone power games you destroying your carefully made paragraphs that you slaved over, if you don't you're a better person than a lot of others and you must relies a normal non-Utopia person would sneak nasty jabs and cruel words. And no one likes to be told that they're wrong so it goes vice versa especially someone they could dub just as a sore looser.

Than you report them to the staff if that fails, now you'll spend more time on this. And will you do this everytime someone power games, god I'd hang myself so you stop going through the channels and you just let them do as they may, they could very much listen and be polite but the what ifs, should I risk myself?

The answer is yes but will I.​

And [member="Coci Heavenshield"], no one has said the system is perfect, as no system is but it depends on those behind it. So lets not simplify them, they both have their pros and cons and I'm sure a comprise could happen.

 

[Nyxie]

[member="Darth Immortus"]

It's not a matter of practicality but of freedom and the expectation that we don't need to be babysat by individuals who are by no means authorities. They're just like us, however, they are just the maintenance crew. People have this skewed view of them like they're the firing squad, judge, jury, et cetera.

It doesn't have to be in the quote for it to be evident, as "good" and "bad" are by default, definitive opinions, and are thus subject to the holder of said opinion. Full stop.

 

[Xephirus Cloud]

It would also turn away quality role-players just as well.

That being said, I have no issue writing with less skilled writers, I feel it helps them grow.

It's true. I used to be really really bad. But now I consider myself a pretty strong roleplayer.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Darth Immortus"]

No no. Not trying to imply you are wrong or misinterpreting anything. (great vid btw) ...I'm just saying: "You gotta sell it baby".

All you. Cheers.