Keira Priest
The Iron
[member="Julius Sedaire"] - Only if you think you can keep up.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
You'll Sleep When I Say So
- Thread starter The Major
- Start date
Keepin Corellia Weird
[member="Keira Verd"] - With you? Absolutely.
Naast'ika Laaran
Singing Little Destroyer
[member="Omari Vyken"]
Central Command Biocomm Network
-Intent: To create a new biocomm network that is made by the First Order
-Primary Source: Huginn Biocomm Network, Bio-Neural Gel Pack
Huginn Biocomm Network
-Material: Biocomm (links to Bio-Comm Module)
-Other Sources: Villip and Oggzil
Not SW Technology, Star Trek technology copied as source material, used as basis for materials as well
Central Command Biocomm Network
-Intent: To create a new biocomm network that is made by the First Order
-Primary Source: Huginn Biocomm Network, Bio-Neural Gel Pack
Huginn Biocomm Network
-Material: Biocomm (links to Bio-Comm Module)
Bio-Comm Module
-Other Sources: Villip and Oggzil
Bio-neural Gel Pack
Not SW Technology, Star Trek technology copied as source material, used as basis for materials as well
Omari Ngao
Ghost
[member="Naast'ika Laaran"]
I think they were linked as precedent.
The Primary Source does say something along the lines of modifying. In the Biocomm that the First Order is using there is no mention of any YV technology, which, based off your post and your mention of Villips is how you're communicating. Of course, you're talking to nothing since our tech doesn't mention that. I think you could write a really good story if you wrote something along the lines of talking to himself though..
I think they were linked as precedent.
The Primary Source does say something along the lines of modifying. In the Biocomm that the First Order is using there is no mention of any YV technology, which, based off your post and your mention of Villips is how you're communicating. Of course, you're talking to nothing since our tech doesn't mention that. I think you could write a really good story if you wrote something along the lines of talking to himself though.
.Naast'ika Laaran
Singing Little Destroyer
[member="Omari Vyken"]
I did not say you utilized Villips.
I said you utilized telepathic communication.
Which is similar enough to a Villip that a Villip could detect it.
I can understand if there was some confusion on the side of the FO in this matter. You are neither the submitter of the technology sub in question, nor are you the submitter of the original submission this thing is based upon. There is plenty of room for misunderstanding or poor communications along the way.
But.
"Biological Communication" in this case means "Telepathy" and that is very clearly the implied intent with which the submission was put through the Factory and approved. If this technology does NOT utilize telepathy, than either it was submitted with false precedence, was not properly explained to the factory judge, or downright shouldn't work.
I did not say you utilized Villips.
I said you utilized telepathic communication.
Which is similar enough to a Villip that a Villip could detect it.
I can understand if there was some confusion on the side of the FO in this matter. You are neither the submitter of the technology sub in question, nor are you the submitter of the original submission this thing is based upon. There is plenty of room for misunderstanding or poor communications along the way.
But.
"Biological Communication" in this case means "Telepathy" and that is very clearly the implied intent with which the submission was put through the Factory and approved. If this technology does NOT utilize telepathy, than either it was submitted with false precedence, was not properly explained to the factory judge, or downright shouldn't work.
The Golden Rule
[member="Omari Vyken"]
From my understanding, the First Order's...development of the replacement biocomm system still operates on telepathic frequencies, but does so by artificial methods. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the new biocomm system if it wasn't using a similar method of communication? Another system working at a similar wavelength should still be able to cause some interference like on the normal electromagnetic spectrum.
From my understanding, the First Order's...development of the replacement biocomm system still operates on telepathic frequencies, but does so by artificial methods. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the new biocomm system if it wasn't using a similar method of communication? Another system working at a similar wavelength should still be able to cause some interference like on the normal electromagnetic spectrum.
Omari Ngao
Ghost
[member="Naast'ika Laaran"]
I'm reading that point as a unique sequence specified to each and every person / user that is connected to the Network. With that, it doesn't look like you wrote anything about assuming someone's identity, based from the weaknesses.
Moving on from that, there is no mention in the villip article on Wookieepedia of villips being able to communicate with other species / bio-technology.
Of course there is the oggzil which allowed the Yuuzhan Vong to translate and speak on electrical technology based comms.
But the channels are jammed so even if you were 'talking' to the Biocomm, you either wouldn't be able to hear it, actually communicate with it, or note it's existence. So I'm going to request an edit of your post at this point. If you want to talk about it further you can PM me here on the site or on Discord.
I'm reading that point as a unique sequence specified to each and every person / user that is connected to the Network. With that, it doesn't look like you wrote anything about assuming someone's identity, based from the weaknesses.
Moving on from that, there is no mention in the villip article on Wookieepedia of villips being able to communicate with other species / bio-technology.
Of course there is the oggzil which allowed the Yuuzhan Vong to translate and speak on electrical technology based comms.
But the channels are jammed so even if you were 'talking' to the Biocomm, you either wouldn't be able to hear it, actually communicate with it, or note it's existence. So I'm going to request an edit of your post at this point. If you want to talk about it further you can PM me here on the site or on Discord.
[member="Naast'ika Laaran"] | [member="Omari Vyken"] | [member="Suravi Teigra"]
Jamming aside, as the author of the submission I can tell you. It does not work on telepathy. If you wish to discuss the matter further you may ask me in my PMs. Otherwise, no telepathy artifical or otherwise with my BioComm System. I will side with the First Order on this matter, thank you.
Jamming aside, as the author of the submission I can tell you. It does not work on telepathy. If you wish to discuss the matter further you may ask me in my PMs. Otherwise, no telepathy artifical or otherwise with my BioComm System. I will side with the First Order on this matter, thank you.
Naast'ika Laaran
Singing Little Destroyer
[member="Omari Vyken"]
Ok. So. Few small points.
The whole "unique sequence" bit? That has nothing to do with HOW the BioComm Network broadcasts its communications. That is user interfaces, data access points, exc. Basically, that is encryption hardware/software.
I stated in my post that Naast'ika was unable to decrypt the transmissions being sent. He's just hearing random noise and broadcasting random noise back. Thus the whole clogging up frequencies bit.
However. I think it's time to address the bigger issue here.
First and foremost. If. IIIIIIF. If the BioComm Network Submission does not function on Telepathic Communication principles, then the submission needs to much more clearly explain how it functions and why it functions than it currently does. Which means it needs to be pulled back out for edits or archived and resubmitted.
Second, and a much bigger issue.
The nature of Factory Submissions on Chaos does not translate to "The submission doesn't say it CAN'T do the thing, so I'm going to have it do the thing." It's one thing if 'the thing' is a relatively simple and common action that any similar object should be able to perform, and that both sides can agree that it is reasonable for such a thing to be done. "Incompatable with other biological communication technologies" is not such a thing. That is something that must clearly be listed out as a strength or a weakness within the component itself. Retroactively attributing those capabilities to a submission is, frankly, abusive.
So at this point, I feel that the conversation has gone beyond a back-and-forth discussion on appropriate / possible interactions between participants in a faction thread. As such, I'm going to drop this for now and let the faction admins of both sides discuss this to see if we can stay out of the hair of staff.
Ok. So. Few small points.
The whole "unique sequence" bit? That has nothing to do with HOW the BioComm Network broadcasts its communications. That is user interfaces, data access points, exc. Basically, that is encryption hardware/software.
I stated in my post that Naast'ika was unable to decrypt the transmissions being sent. He's just hearing random noise and broadcasting random noise back. Thus the whole clogging up frequencies bit.
However. I think it's time to address the bigger issue here.
First and foremost. If. IIIIIIF. If the BioComm Network Submission does not function on Telepathic Communication principles, then the submission needs to much more clearly explain how it functions and why it functions than it currently does. Which means it needs to be pulled back out for edits or archived and resubmitted.
Second, and a much bigger issue.
The nature of Factory Submissions on Chaos does not translate to "The submission doesn't say it CAN'T do the thing, so I'm going to have it do the thing." It's one thing if 'the thing' is a relatively simple and common action that any similar object should be able to perform, and that both sides can agree that it is reasonable for such a thing to be done. "Incompatable with other biological communication technologies" is not such a thing. That is something that must clearly be listed out as a strength or a weakness within the component itself. Retroactively attributing those capabilities to a submission is, frankly, abusive.
So at this point, I feel that the conversation has gone beyond a back-and-forth discussion on appropriate / possible interactions between participants in a faction thread. As such, I'm going to drop this for now and let the faction admins of both sides discuss this to see if we can stay out of the hair of staff.
The Golden Rule
[member="Fiolette Yvarro"]
I'm curious. What frequency does it work on, or what's the exact mode of communication ? I concur it's a bit vague on the transmission medium, so I can see why there may be confusion.
I'm curious. What frequency does it work on, or what's the exact mode of communication ? I concur it's a bit vague on the transmission medium, so I can see why there may be confusion.
Elijah Brockway
[Insert Clever Joke Here]
I don't have any real dog in this fight, but I'd just like to pose a fairly related question/my unwanted two cents:
Even if this thing was relying on telepathic communications, Star Wars also showed numerous other species, even sentient, that had telepathic capabilities: "Some species, such as the Iktotchi, the Anzati, the Hortek, the Quermians, Zeltrons, Umbarans, and the Draethos, had evolved a natural telepathic ability, common even to those of their number who could not touch the Force." That's off of this article. There are also some other species beyond those, like Bouncers, who almost entirely relied on their telepathic abilities when communicating with non-Bouncers.
Is the implication, then, that Villips—which I would like to point out, were only able to engage in their communication abilities between 'sister' villips that grew on the same stalk (at least in the basic variety), per their wookieepedia article—would be able to listen in on all of them and all of their telepathic abilities? Because that, in itself, would make for a fairly overpowered thing itself, that deviates from the canonical description of them.
Even if this thing was relying on telepathic communications, Star Wars also showed numerous other species, even sentient, that had telepathic capabilities: "Some species, such as the Iktotchi, the Anzati, the Hortek, the Quermians, Zeltrons, Umbarans, and the Draethos, had evolved a natural telepathic ability, common even to those of their number who could not touch the Force." That's off of this article. There are also some other species beyond those, like Bouncers, who almost entirely relied on their telepathic abilities when communicating with non-Bouncers.
Is the implication, then, that Villips—which I would like to point out, were only able to engage in their communication abilities between 'sister' villips that grew on the same stalk (at least in the basic variety), per their wookieepedia article—would be able to listen in on all of them and all of their telepathic abilities? Because that, in itself, would make for a fairly overpowered thing itself, that deviates from the canonical description of them.
[member="Suravi Teigra"]
Cloud based. It doesn't work without a full network, it's useless. So unless someone's thrown down some communication beacons. All you're gonna hear is static. Outside of the First Order's own territory it'd be like a cellphone losing signal the further away you get from a tower. Add to the fact that they're jammed, they're gonna have a hard time getting anything done that isn't local. Yeah it's vague because I had a series of submissions to go with it but life didn't work like that. But I do not appreciate the assumptions being made, y'all coulda just asked me in the first place. Yo, how does this actually work. Instead of me sitting here reading two pages of back and forth. You have my Discord.
Cloud based. It doesn't work without a full network, it's useless. So unless someone's thrown down some communication beacons. All you're gonna hear is static. Outside of the First Order's own territory it'd be like a cellphone losing signal the further away you get from a tower. Add to the fact that they're jammed, they're gonna have a hard time getting anything done that isn't local. Yeah it's vague because I had a series of submissions to go with it but life didn't work like that. But I do not appreciate the assumptions being made, y'all coulda just asked me in the first place. Yo, how does this actually work. Instead of me sitting here reading two pages of back and forth. You have my Discord.
The Golden Rule
[member="Fiolette Yvarro"]
I'm not asking about the infrastructure, but the transmission medium for communication. Does this work on the regular electromagnetic spectrum? Subspace? Hyperwave? Stuff like that.
If it does, then it's still vulnerable to conventional jamming methods. Which ironically was what my "inferior" system was meant to circumvent.
I'm not asking about the infrastructure, but the transmission medium for communication. Does this work on the regular electromagnetic spectrum? Subspace? Hyperwave? Stuff like that.
If it does, then it's still vulnerable to conventional jamming methods. Which ironically was what my "inferior" system was meant to circumvent.
Naast'ika Laaran
Singing Little Destroyer
[member="Elijah Brockway"]
That's a good point. I had actually been looking at that recently. As far as I know, nobody in canon that was capable of communicating via Telepathy ever tried to communicate with a Villip. I had been thinking about that a lot before writing my post, because I know how bad some Wookieepedia articles are at contradicting each other. And then I started thinking about the practical limitations of that. If that article were 100% accurate, then no Vong starship/biot created at a different location would be able to communicate with one another. And yet, that limitation (to the best of my knowledge) is never displayed throughout the stories involving Yuuzhan Vong. Which means that, the practical applications implied through the actual stories (not to mention how they've been used on Chaos), that any Villip has been able to communicate with any Villip. Though, they might only initially recognize certain frequencies until they encounter a new frequency.
My interpretation of that is Yuuzhan Vong Villips are only designed to communicate with other Villips, but that because they rely upon Telepathy, that other telepathic creatures might be able to hear them and butt in on the conversation over short-ish ranges. Like within a planetary orbit. Not inter-planetary/interstellar ranges. And, if someone else butts in on the conversation, the Villip would be able to be used to communicate back and forth. Which also works nicely if a telepathic space-whale bumps into a telepathic spaceship and they want to discuss how nice the space-weather is.
I would reiterate that, though the Villip article claims instant communication at pan-galactic ranges, I've never had it used at longer ranges than, say, 1 AU. Anything beyond that and Mesen'Loras communication is intended to be mechanical / subspace communication technology (even if done through biological means).
However, if you feel that my submission does not explain that clearly enough and are concerned with others going beyond those capabilities, I'd be more than willing to submit modification requests so that those concerns can be addressed.
That's a good point. I had actually been looking at that recently. As far as I know, nobody in canon that was capable of communicating via Telepathy ever tried to communicate with a Villip. I had been thinking about that a lot before writing my post, because I know how bad some Wookieepedia articles are at contradicting each other. And then I started thinking about the practical limitations of that. If that article were 100% accurate, then no Vong starship/biot created at a different location would be able to communicate with one another. And yet, that limitation (to the best of my knowledge) is never displayed throughout the stories involving Yuuzhan Vong. Which means that, the practical applications implied through the actual stories (not to mention how they've been used on Chaos), that any Villip has been able to communicate with any Villip. Though, they might only initially recognize certain frequencies until they encounter a new frequency.
My interpretation of that is Yuuzhan Vong Villips are only designed to communicate with other Villips, but that because they rely upon Telepathy, that other telepathic creatures might be able to hear them and butt in on the conversation over short-ish ranges. Like within a planetary orbit. Not inter-planetary/interstellar ranges. And, if someone else butts in on the conversation, the Villip would be able to be used to communicate back and forth. Which also works nicely if a telepathic space-whale bumps into a telepathic spaceship and they want to discuss how nice the space-weather is.
I would reiterate that, though the Villip article claims instant communication at pan-galactic ranges, I've never had it used at longer ranges than, say, 1 AU. Anything beyond that and Mesen'Loras communication is intended to be mechanical / subspace communication technology (even if done through biological means).
However, if you feel that my submission does not explain that clearly enough and are concerned with others going beyond those capabilities, I'd be more than willing to submit modification requests so that those concerns can be addressed.
Elijah Brockway
[Insert Clever Joke Here]
More of a thought experiment than anything, to be honest—my assumption was always that, generally, Villips from the same stalk could likely communicate, even if they were from different batches (same as how a strawberry in one batch from a bush is going to be basically the same as another strawberry from the next spring, for example), and so you'd outfit a squadron of coralskippers, for example, with villips all from the same stalk. And, I'm not entirely sure—Wookieepedia doesn't say anything as to it, and it's been a long time since I read that era of Star Wars literature—but I think that large ships and such would have arrays of Villips, enabling them to be able to communicate between each other, as well as being able to reach groups on the ground, or over in coralskippers and such, just by using the right Villip. So don't quote me on that one, lmao.
So, I'm certainly not going to call for submission mods or anything. Just thought it was an interesting thought to keep in mind regarding Villip capabilities and other telepathic species in the galaxy, most of which we never saw as being able to inter-communicate via thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But, let's not derail the thread and let it stay properly focused on stuff about the invasion, not about our respective understandings of Yuuzhan Vong tech.
So, I'm certainly not going to call for submission mods or anything. Just thought it was an interesting thought to keep in mind regarding Villip capabilities and other telepathic species in the galaxy, most of which we never saw as being able to inter-communicate via thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But, let's not derail the thread and let it stay properly focused on stuff about the invasion, not about our respective understandings of Yuuzhan Vong tech.
[member="Suravi Teigra"]
So I've explained everything to ORC Staff. If you have any further questions or concerns about the invasion then feel free to discuss that here. Otherwise your questions about my submission can be answered in private.
So I've explained everything to ORC Staff. If you have any further questions or concerns about the invasion then feel free to discuss that here. Otherwise your questions about my submission can be answered in private.
Keepin Corellia Weird
So.... [member="Rolf Amsel"] - You ok if I have a squib jump out of an air vent and knife you in like the shoulder? I think that would be a funny thing to see!
Squibs... DEY IN DEM WALLS YO!
Squibs... DEY IN DEM WALLS YO!
Good Ol' Scoundrel
[member="Alkor Centaris"] [member="Elian Keyes"] [member="Yula Perl"]
Tag. Mentioning it here cause tag system goes nuts from time to time.
Tag. Mentioning it here cause tag system goes nuts from time to time.
Wilhelmine Dahma
Character
Your space Krakken has nothing on the trap I'm setting for [member="Mittens"]
Jorus Merrill
is mek bote
NOT THE BEES! - FIV Vindicator, probably
Nice move, Kaine
Nice move, Kaine