Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why KOTOR 2 is better than KOTOR 1

Sorry I was trying to copy parts but it took me a long time to figure out how to let it even let me paste part of it. But having played the COMPLETED version of KOTOR 2, I feel this opinion is correct. I liked 2 when I was playing it, I found it more complex and darker than the first but the ending itself was the weakest part, it was abrupt and didn't wrap up things.... but the mods have fixed that and going back, I have to say, it is the better game and harder tale.
 
Still think the first one was better organized storyline wise.

Second had me asking for more, more that never came. It's ending was lame. The Jedi council was killed already, and now you start the Jedi council anew or take over the Sith? Where's the backstory for that? Yes, you can influence your companions and make pretty much all of them FU's, but the ending felt cheap.

And come on. Force Crush is the most broken move I've ever seen. Easily crushed (Litterally) everything. Opponent pulls a saving throw? Half damage+Inaction. Fail it? Full+Inaction. So broke. The other abilities and forms were nice, but still.
 

EmKay

Well-Known Member
I like KotOR II for the shades of grey it inhabits. KotOR I always told you what was right and wrong, but in the sequel everything's so much more convoluted. Taking the path of Light can result in being self-destructive, but when you think you may be doing the right thing all of a sudden you've slipped down the Dark Side. It's much more... realistic? They always said in the movies that you can fall to the Dark and not even realise until it's too late, and KotOR II embodies that to a certain degree.
 

EmKay

Well-Known Member
Played, yes. Finished, no, unfortunately. Life got in the way of KotOR and then I broke it with mods and had to fix it and THEN I got involved with other games (like Dark Souls) so KotOR II got shoved to the wayside.
 
I played both KOTORs when I was young, without understanding them, but I enjoyed them.
I bought them both again recently but, cant seem to get back into, mainly for gameplay reasons.
May have to go back again, because it seemed too based on luck for my liking.
 
Rushed release and broken content aside, the more cynical and, for lack of a better term, gray aspects of KOTOR 2 really resonated with me. It was an infinitely more appealing Star Wars universe that explored (at least as far as I know) previously untouched themes, such as the effect of a jedi civil war on the force blind remainder of the galaxy. It cannot be denied that the first KOTOR was a much more "Star Wars" story, with a clearly defined good and evil, and a bad guy to be taken down, but I have always found it less thought provoking. The story you are told is the one you get in the first game, where as in the second one, the galaxy somehow felt bigger, at least to me.
 
I personally found that KOTOR 1 was better for its similarity to the universe that Star Wars is portrayed to be in the movies. Now KOTOR 2 was fun, once all the missing pieces were added, however it was not what the movies represented.
I love it when games add to the Star Wars universe, and I am all for showing different aspects of it, but when I played KOTOR 1 I felt like I was playing through something akin to the movies universe. That feeling is what really got that game for me. KOTOR 2, while an awesome game, took a different side and made things a little more complex, most of the time in a good way.
Some things I liked about KOTOR 2 are:
1. The randomizing drops list. KOTOR 1 was incredibly annoying to me in this way in that I could always find the same drops in the same chest or from the same badguy, there was no variation. KOTOR 2 kept it very nice in that you could find lots of different things from fighting the same guys.
2. Additional levels. I loved how you could get more Force powers and abilities than in KOTOR 1. It added wonderful new ways in which to customize your character and companions.
3. More story. Once all the cut-content was restored, I found that it was fun playing through a much longer story than KOTOR 1. It had a lot of depth and features so that if you made a decision it would affect you later on in the game by giving you missions or better items.

Some things I didn't like about KOTOR 2:
1. The randomizing drop list: The one bit that I didn't like was how you could get an awesomely powerful armor right at the offset from killing enemies on Peragus. (I got a good end game set of armor within the first 5 minutes of playing, never had to change armor again.)
2. The Additional levels: But if you got to lvl. 50 (the highest level), which you could cheat for or fight the same people over and over again, then the final battles would be a breeze. I did that once just to see what it would be like, I took no damage from Kreia at all and her lightsabers were completely ineffective against me. I could even use the mind control on her mid-combat, or her lightsabers and it would always work.
3. Cut content. The problem with this is that you have to find a trustworthy place to get the mods. Obsidian, the company who made the game, never went back to finish the content of even try to finish. They just left the content in out there for others to do the work. If they had wanted a full product they should have finished it rather than sell a half-completed work, if it could be called that.

I liked and disliked many more things about KOTOR 2 and I didn't go into detail. I am just getting my opinion out there, as that is how a discussion works.

KOTOR 2 is a great game, but I will always pick KOTOR 1.

(The reason I talk about the movies so much is that they are ultimately the canon of the Star Wars universe. In the end the movies are the only things that matter, all the novels, games, and comics are views of the movies. The movies are Lucas' creation and therefore are the only canon of that universe.)

Thoughts? Reactions?
 
I find KOTOR 1 more appealing than KOTOR 2. I just like the vanilla Star Wars experience.

Though, I do love KOTOR 2, though, with the removed content mod due to the reasons stated by the author of this article.
 
I was talking to [member="Hecate"] about this just last night.

The simple fact is…I completely disagree.

KOTOR2 was a better game to play, engine wise. The graphics were better, the skills and feats more balanced, the Force powers and interface much improved.

And I agree it had some interesting concepts and was trying to be different. It was not a simple vanilla Star Wars story, and that could have made it interesting. Finally, the restored content probably would have explained the mess of an ending and made some things make more sense.

But set against that was a whole list of issues:
  • Several of the levels were flat out boring or broken. Peragus, Korriban (except the tomb), parts of Nar Shaadda, none of those were fun. Peragus very nearly killed my desire to ever play it, actually, and ever afterwards I used a ‘Skip Peragus’ mod. It just didn’t work.
  • The villains were not interesting. Malak in KOTOR1 was not the best, being equal parts ranty and hammy. But he was positively Shakespearean compared to Sion and Nilhilus who were character sketches, not actual characters. And as for Kreia…
  • Kreia was intensely annoying. Yes, giving a companion who would try and show you that things are not just black and white might have worked. The problem is that she was transparently a Sith from the very start. And when it got down to it Traya was a villain with an idiotic plan and at no point could the Exile say ‘Get off my ship, I know you’re a Sith’.
  • The other companions were not as interesting as KOTOR1. GO-TO, Disciple, Visas, even HK and Mandalore, none of them were that interesting this time. I like Handmaiden, Mira and Atton, but that’s slim pickings indeed! All the companions felt like shadows of the KOTOR1 party members rather than their own characters.
  • Restoration or not, the plot was and is a mess. The Exile, despite being a silent protagonist, is not as interesting this time, and many of the plot points which happen are rather silly.

No, KOTOR2 was not as good. It had a worse story, a more confused plot, less interesting characters and the lack of that essential ‘Star Wars’ feel.

Ironically I find it more enjoyable and easier to play because of the engine changes, but have less incentive to do so.
 
I heavily agree with [member="Tamara"] as we were just speaking about it last night and I agree with all her points.

The engine was better, the amount of personalization options, the more balanced and unique direction to character and skill building were all great.

However, like Tamara said already. The plot was a mess, the characters were less interesting, and the worlds were never as fun to explore and visit.

  • For me the only characters I liked were Handmaiden, Atton, and Visas (a little different from Tamara there). Handmaiden overall was just a more engaging character to interact with and you always wanted to bring her along. I pretty much immediately downloaded the mod to let me have her as a companion when playing Fem!Exile because the Disciple was just so boring and worthless. Atton had a very intriguing backstory and coaxing it out of him was very rewarding. I liked Visas more because she was a very unique character that could have actually worked well if properly fleshed out, though she sadly wasn't. I felt so bad for Canderous (Mandalore), T-3, and HK-47 because they were nowhere near as interesting as they used to be in kotor 1. In fact without a mod you won't get HK till later on, nor would you get his storyline involving the HK-50s. And seriously, anyone actually really remember much of Go-To or Bao-Dur? They did so little. And Kreia. . . .
  • Adding her to my complaints on the villains. She was just so. . .bitchy as a party member. She was never any fun to interact with unless you were going darkside. Her constant complaints over your actions and sheer difficulty to please made it too hard to earn her rewards, especially if you were also working to further plots with the other characters because she so often had problems with it. So picking between her, when she was so annoying, and the rest of the party certainly didn't help. Sion. . . don't get me started on him! He was such a crybaby and so pathetic. All he was constantly looking for was Kreia's approval. At first it seemed he might have an interesting story, but when he just becomes her little errand boy in the end and how often he kept complaining about her while submitting to her just shows how much of a lame villain he was when literally his role could have been filled by any competent lackey. While standard, at least Malek was a workable villain. He was power hungry and his sheer strength made him more interesting. Darth Nilhilus was the only Sith in Kotor 2 I thought had potential. The whole concept of his need to feed, driving him to destroy the galaxy slowly as he consumed. That was interesting. I would have loved them to have taken some direction with him! Instead he just is a boss fight thrown at you without much substance.
  • Other worlds. . . .ok they've been pointed out, I'll keep it brief. Peragus was horrible. I dread playing Kotor 2 for this alone. Taris was an amazing new world to explore as a first opening to the game. It was big, populated, filled with characters to interact with and interesting plots. The Swoop gangs like the Beks and then the Dueling arena with Starkiller. Those were amazing! And the Rak-ghoul and undercity were just perfect. They both creeped me out and made me feel bad for the people there. The rest of the worlds just disappointed me. Korriban wasn't nearly as amazing to visit as Kotor 1. I understand it was abandoned, but it was just boring rather than presenting an atmosphere. The lack of characters is not a plus, just like how Taris performed better than Peragus, Kotor 1 Korriban was superior because of the interactions and the activity on the world. The loss of the teachers, the other students you competed with, all of that was better than the barren wasteland. You also got to visit more tombs in Kotor 1. You'd think I liked Nar Shadda then? Well I was meh. I enjoyed the life the world had, and I enjoyed the refugee sector work and taking down Go-To. . . .before I realized what he was up to. Seriously, Go-To's plans were as bad as Kreia's and honestly he made a better enemy than ally. And I'll say it now, playing as Mira was a queen! It is too damn irritating and hard playing as her fighting Hanharr and the powerful enemies in the JekJek Tar tunnels. Speaking of which, those tunnels were my last reason I hated Nar Shadda. I spent too damn long navigating them, that really broke my enjoyment level. Let's mention what was done right though. Telos, Dxun/Onderon, and Dantooine. In all honesty I loved visiting Telos, going down on the ground, exploring the droid factory, visiting the academy, and the working on the station. By far the Academy was my favorite part and I'll actually talk about Atris in a moment. Dantooine meanwhile was as good as the original. So I won't drag on for it. Khoonda was just as interesting, and exploring the Jedi temple was very much what I wanted from it. At the same time the rest of the world worked like it had before so I have no complaints at all. The real jem though in the worlds we got to visit was Dxun and Onderon. I loved the Mandalorians you run into on Dxun, getting to see them, getting to explore the jungle, getting to see the history. And I loved getting to Iziz on Onderon and exploring there, experiencing the city, seeing the people, and I absolutely enjoyed the big battle fighting to get to the palace and then once inside saving the Queen. All in all The Iziz Palace battle and Khoonda battle were my favorite moments to fight. And I admit, Manaan was my least favorite world in Kotor 1, but even at its worst it was better than Kotor 2's Peragus, Korriban, and Nar Shadda. The zombie Selkath plot was really fun to run into and learn the effects of, infiltrating the embassy was fun, playing diplomat was a nice break from the combat, but the water suit was just murderously slow and the pacing was just too off kilter from the other worlds. For Kotor 1 Tatooine was a fun place to experience because Anchorhead was a cool town, you met HK-47 there, the Sandpeople plot was good, and finding the star map was a blast. And Kashyyyk, OMG! Kashyyyk was terrifying when you reached the Shadowlands! Jolee was awesome, fighting the Terentatek was epic, and the open sub-plots for party members was great!
  • Shortening the last paragraph. Peragus, Korriban, and Nar Shadda bad. Telos, Dantooine, and Dxun/Onderon good. Kotor 1 were all great.

So I said a lot of bad. And I mentioned what was some of what I liked when I got to some characters and worlds. But I wanted to mention again what good things I thought the game had again. Graphics and engine, personalization and customization, balancing. Worlds like Telos, Dantooine, and Dxun/Onderon. But the best part is definitely the characters like The Handmaiden and Atton who have engaging characters, interesting backstories, and were fun to work with. However, there is one last good thing I never mentioned. Atris. Plain and simple, Atris is by far a character I think is highly overlooked, but who should have been focused on more. HEr past relationship with the Exile was interesting. Her personality was interesting, as was her goal. Mostly because of the corruption you can see in her. Her relationship with the Echani Handmaidens was compelling and different. Her ideas on how things should have worked were new. And most of all, she could have worked in so many ways. Now what they did with her was fine, it worked and there was nothing wrong with that. However, I honestly think she would have made a superior villain to Treya in every way. Imagine her killing the council after her slow corruption she was in denial of, having asked the Exile to bring them together in the first place. Imagine her being the one pulling those strings on Sion and Nilhilus without their knowledge, imagine her a twisted outsider jedi breaking Sion rather than Treya. Throw in a past backstory/relationship of some kinda with the Exile and she would have been an amazing foe, sympathetic, powerful threatening, cunning, and not even quite evil in the black and white sense. More lost, tortured, and misguided in doing the right thing than out to directly cause harm.

That said, Kotor 1 is the superior game to Kotor 2.

Kotor 2 shined with characters like the Handmaiden, Atton, and Atris. Worlds such as Telos, Dantooine, and Dxun/Onderon. Plus it had better balanced gameplay and graphics, and personalization/customization. However, Treya, Sion, and Nilhilus fail their jobs as engaging villains too much, Peragus alone makes me never want to play again, and the lackluster story just doesn't appeal.

Kotor 1 wasn't perfect either. Character builds were more restricted and there wasn't much to work with in creating the character that wasn't broken in some way. It also had a more predictable plot, but that plot was also written very interestingly though and executed with a decent pace and engagement. All of the worlds I was happy to visit multiple times for sub-plots and explore, even Manaan to some degree despite the slowness of it. And while anyone would agree, Mission and her wookiee pal were horribly annoying, characters like Juhani, Jolee, Canderous, HK-47, and Carth were all more interesting than many of the variants given in Kotor 2. Malek and Bastilla were very generic, but they carried their roles well and were enjoyable to watch and work with.

So my final verdict? While I'd rather play with the controls and options from 2 and see some of its more unique cast, I prefer the story and environments of 1. Both are good, but I have to go with 1. Peragus is too unplayable for one, and I tend to choose the same options despite being given so many because the worlds and characters are far less intriguing. I blow through the first half of the game, Peragus, Telos, Nar Shadda and Korriban so I can enjoy the last half even though I really liked Telos. I always work on the characters, but I hang out with Handmaiden and Atton. What I would have loved to see was a Kotor 3 over TOR, I'm biased because I don't like MMOs though so don't think I think TOR is a bad game I just don't like MMOs, and have seen it utilize intriguing environments like Kotor 1 while incorporating better gameplay and adding in different unique characters like Kotor 2. Hopefully of the sort that worked like Atris or Handmaiden instead of Treya or Bao-Dur.

Edit: And yes I did play the fully restored content. It was definitely much cooler than the original release, but flaws are still flaws and actually the HK base was on Telos so it gets added to Telos benefits.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom