Till Death do us Part

[Valik]

Now I know that, in the past characters on this board have kicked the bucket(oh noez). Except, for whatever reason, a character's untimely end isn't always an end, merely only untimely, much to the vocal dismay of the skype community. Normally this isn't something I'm overly concerned with as I A) Am not really a duelist and B) Generally avoid dealing with "handwavers" in the first place.

But it has presented me with a bit of a dilemma. Namely it makes the acquisition of Stygium(objective: Kill 500+ post character) far easier than (presumably) intended. I can think of at least one instance where a character was killed, that death was used as a stygium claim, they came back, were killed again, and then used another stygium claim. I can also think of other character's whose death(s) could be used more than once if their murderers were more interested in factory matters. Simply put, aside from realism concerns(IE, most characters are not Palpatine/Darth Bane and shouldn't be essence transferring) the revival epidemic also presents balance concerns with the current factory set-up.

The simplest solution to this of course is to just change the stygium requirement, but I personally like the requirement. Something like posting in rhymes or posting backwards can be adapted by a skilled writer(as proven by the multiple songsteel threads by [member="Popo"] and [member="Rave Merrill"]), but an IC event like someone's death is more difficult to consistently achieve. Furthermore it is my opinion that if a character legitimately has a claim to an ability that allows resurrection their death should count in multiple instances.


So instead I'd like to propose a new system. If a character is to be killed they must submit an application in order to legitimize their return(I'll put a template example here soon.), and the decision will then be made on a staff vote, whether the decision is to be made by RPJ's, Admins, or both together(naturally excluding non-neutral parties , say if an RPJ's character was reviving or made a killing blow). For example a very basic template I put together would be something like this:

Character Name: The character's name:
Method: What method the character used to achieve their resurrection/escape from the shadow realm, preferably in the form of a Wook Link.
Development: Thread(preferably threads) where the character acquires skill/knowledge/artifact that allowed character to carry out the method.
Explanation: A summary of why character X should be able to perform method Y, to give a background for dev thread reading and allowing a "cliff " version so dev threads don't have be put under a microscope.

Aside from fixing factory concerns this (should) also help lay to rest OOC bickering and backtalking, as everyone will know if a character comes back their skills and talents in doing so were legitimate. Yes, this will increase staff's workload but considering the small amount of characters who die, let alone revive themselves, it wouldn't be a constant workload, requiring a ruling perhaps once a month. The template could of course be tweaked or modified to suit certain erroneous cases, but I personally believe something simple like that would cover everything.


In any case, it's not an extremely major issue, but one I believe the board at large would like addressed, and this is a possible solution. I've been on the other side of the fence in Staffland and I know most of you rather well, and ultimately I trust your collective judgement. I'm just attempting to present some sensible options.

 

[Jsc]

I remember when the board first started and everyone was transferring their characters over. Siting 'cryo-sleep' or 'time travel' or 'force storm wormhole', in order to make the adjustment for their characters to exist in a new timeline. Often thousands of years in the future.

As such, when a board is founded by 'handwavium', I don't think anybody should care about more 'handwavium'. If Tef doesn't care that people resurrect their characters over, and over, and over again? Meh. Neither do I. We already have characters that can live forever in their natural lifespan, Space Dragons, A.I. PCs, and even a few Shemales running around.

This is only one step closer to Character Profiles requiring Admin approval. Which I believe is not a step in the right direction. 2 cents.

 

[Mrrew]

You've only been a factory judge for a short while (as far as I know), and you're already coming up with genius ideas. I never did get why some of those requirements have nothing to do with said item though... *kills someone who dosen't have stygium* *Stygium suddenly appears?* Great idea though!

 

[Garza]

This is only one step closer to Character Profiles requiring Admin approval.

Agreed. Much of the site is created on Handwaveium. So as much as this would be a good idea, it's getting really close to making more things needing to be approved. More work for Judges and Admins. meaning more of them needed to do this work.

If they don't want it, I don't care. If they want it, then I will use it when I want one of my characters to come back alive.

 

[Revenchent]

I cannot give you more likes my friend. As someone who despises reviving dead PCs because it almost always absolutely slaughters a good story....adding applications for this sort of thing would be wonderful.

 

[The Spark]

I cannot give you more likes my friend. As someone who despises reviving dead PCs because it almost always absolutely slaughters a good story....adding applications for this sort of thing would be wonderful.

I can't agree more. I've seen so much abuse of Essence Transfer, and such without really a good reason it's disgusting.

 

[Onrai]

All my no. This could easily be used as a method of griefing.

 

[Jsc]

All my no. This could easily be used as a method of griefing.

Umm. Explain please?

 

[Onrai]

Someone kills your character because they don't like you. You submit a request to bring them back. The request is denied due to bias or OOC pressure. And your character is dead, irretrievably. If the argument "you can't force someone to do something with their character" is brought into play, as Tef has referenced before, the griefers can point out that the very existence of a rule mandating admin decisions on what characters can come back and what characters can't is a violation of that rule, or as such showcases that it isn't true. Much drama and frustration ensues.

 

[The Spark]

I do want to say...however to what I agreed to:

This should be a bit less than "Blank Slated Paperwork."

Case by Case. Maybe we can do something similar to what my old forum did from Yahoo RP did a long time ago. Tef might be familar with this. We called the Sub-Forum "Ashes on the Pyre." We had a GameMaster or in this case a judge who oversaw the specific deaths threads. This GM had the ability, as an Administrator or an RPJ would to approve a character being able to be resurrected through whatever means, a development thread would be a good measure as to what I'm speaking of. Anyways, the GM could rule if the individual was able to come back or not. However, those instances were super rare and people never really saw life again after death.

So, I don't know. Sub-Forum, Case by Case, Reviewed by an RPJ along with the Dev thread to resurrect and then -BOOM- they decide if you stay dead or are alive. Logically, if someone cuts your head off though, I think that should be counted against.

*shrugs* A petition would have to be made on behalf of the user to request the Resurrection and such.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Enigma"] Well, let's not call them griefers. Let's call them, other writers.

I'm not certain I understand. How can someone kill your character without your permission?

 

[Revenchent]

@Enigma I can't say I agree. People as RPers can't just kill your character.

Now, if you're an idiot and put your character in that position, then you have to own up to it. If its inescapable, and you do indeed escape, you can. There are consequences to that however. OOC, people will have issues with you, and some will simply refuse to RP with you. On the other hand, you lose a character you have worked on.

Constantly resurrecting a character is terrible in television, books, comics, and just about all stories (Except Krillin. We love you. ) How in the world would it be good in a roleplaying setting? Regulations would limit abuse, and...well, certain things just need to be regulated.

That is, however, my two cents. I could certainly be wrong.

 

[Beowoof]

I'm not certain I understand. How can someone kill your character without your permission?

^This

My two cents? Death is final. >.>

 

[Shinju]

Constantly resurrecting a character is terrible in television

One Name Kenny McCormick

 

[Valik]

I remember when the board first started and everyone was transferring their characters over. Siting 'cryo-sleep' or 'time travel' or 'force storm wormhole', in order to make the adjustment for their characters to exist in a new timeline. Often thousands of years in the future.

I would argue there's a fundamental difference between jumping through hoops to put a character in a new setting and jumping through hoops to change something that's been RP'd in the setting. Handwaving to put a character on the board (usually) doesn't hurt anyone, while handwaving to change a situation that's been RP'd is arguably a slap in the face to the story being told. The story all of us are telling, the reason all of us are here.

As such, when a board is founded by 'handwavium', I don't think anybody should care about more 'handwavium'. If Tef doesn't care that people resurrect their characters over, and over, and over again? Meh. Neither do I.

Due to SWRP having a reactive rather proactive staff we cannot infer what happens on the board is Tef, or Staff 's will. Barring staff-lead events an RPJ cannot interfere with RP unless something is reported first, and someone cannot report unless they are directly involved with an offending post. For example, if a person dies in one thread and then spawns in a random place in another they can't be reported unless someone who killed them is there, and often times porting a character there is metagaming. As such a near-unreportable situation is created, and staff cannot intervene without violating their main principles. By violating their principles they'd become a biased entity, which would cause a myriad of problems.

We already have characters that can live forever in their natural lifespan, Space Dragons, A.I. PCs, and even a few Shemales running around.

The large majority of the characters you mentioned must go through(or have gone through) a staff evaluation through the factory. The rest are already canon species.

This is only one step closer to Character Profiles requiring Admin approval. Which I believe is not a step in the right direction. 2 cents.

If you look close enough for long enough at Character Creation you'll find that sometimes especially problematic bios will exist for a few hours, only to have their writers have a change of heart and edit them to become more reasonable. If you haven't seen that I can't blame you, it's not common, but I'll wager you've seen a topic called "Banned species"(notably your afore mentioned "space dragons" are there). The large majority, if not the entirety, of that list have been a direct result of player(s) abusing the powers of those species. I would not say that a bio approval process would be ideal or functional, but steps of this nature are not unprecedented, nor do they foretell the coming of a bio approval apocalypse.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Valik"]

I'm gonna cut right through this and reply as a whole to that. Your reply was sexy-as-hell by the way.

I'll be honest. I have no idea who offended you by resurrecting their character more than once and playing shenanigans. I personally hate it when people do that but I've never seen it abused before. I admit there is a story about Mark running wild with Circe and grieving the snot out of anybody who supposedly wronged him? But I'll refrain from commenting on that Llama, or the Factory for that matter.

My schtick Is that cloning, transfer, and rezz is EU canon. And I don't think we should tell anybody whether or not they can follow Canon. Now. If there is a problem child on this board? That's an individual case. It doesn't not require us to punish every single writer for it and create more paperwork. We do not need more government oversight. Just a little more respect amongst peers. That's all. Not a big deal.

Just like you mentioned about the Character Profiles being edited quietly and individually. No paperwork was required. No rules needed to be changed. Just a welcome push in the right direction. *wink*

 

[Onrai]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

The logic behind the rule being proposed here would indicate that the prior state of "you can't be forced to do something you don't want to happen to your character" doesn't apply.

[member="Calico Tal'verda"]

I'm referring to griefing. You know... the act where people pursue a member and cause him or her trouble and or frustration simply to satiate their own agitation with the person.

 

[Valik]

Someone kills your character because they don't like you. You submit a request to bring them back. The request is denied due to bias or OOC pressure. And your character is dead, irretrievably. If the argument "you can't force someone to do something with their character" is brought into play, as Tef has referenced before, the griefers can point out that the very existence of a rule mandating admin decisions on what characters can come back and what characters can't is a violation of that rule, or as such showcases that it isn't true. Much drama and frustration ensues.

Simply put, when 99.99% of people die, even in star wars, they don't come back. This isn't about making sure a character is never RP'd, it's about stopping GMing, enforcing realism, and cutting out a potential avenue for factory abuse. No one can kill your character but you, whether through desire or simply making the wrong move in a fight. If you don't want your character to die you have options to prevent that. If you don't want to get shot don't piss off the people with guns. If you want to use a revival method like Transfer Essence spend a sizeable amount of time putting out quality threads to have your character learn/acquire said artifact/knowledge. If you believe a member of staff is biased towards you or your character asked an unbiased member of staff to see that they are recused from voting. If you've pissed off a majority of staff . . . well, all I can tell you is Tef made his own place when people were pissed at him and that worked out rather well for him.

 

[Jsc]

"you can't be forced to do something you don't want to happen to your character"

That's not a rule man. The rule was and is: "Your character can't be killed without your permission." ...And, I highly suggest that if you have qualms about that rule? Now, or in the past? That you talk to Tef and drop it. Cause I don't see the rest of this conversation going well, any other way.

If you know what I mean. *nudge nudge*

 

[Onrai]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

My argument about griefing stands. One can only assume that this will lead to it in some fashion or another.