Suggestion Single Hex Factions

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

This is brought up due to recent events. This is true. But, I consider it more like a bug being brought to attention once it's noticed.

Right now, a single hex faction can invade, and keep invading, and if you are not close by, no one can do anything. I find this to be problematic story wise, as it helps to prevent IC solutions to IC issues. Which only leaves one place for it to go. I believe this is a bug in the system, rather than a mechanic. I believe the bug stems from a rightful desire to protect factions that are on the ropes. It makes it harder for them to be completely wiped out by constant invasions. I believe this is a good thing.

So, what I propose, is a change to the rules.

If a faction has a single hex left, and it is not actively invading anyone, then standard rules should apply. They must be conquered by an adjacent hex. However, if a single hex faction is invading, during the invasion periods they can be counter invaded. This allows for factions to decide how they want to progress forward story wise, protects persecuted factions as much as current rules allows, and stops the bug from being exploited indefinitely.

I do not expect this to be quickly implemented. Nor feel it needs to be. I do however, hope it can be talked about, discussed, for problems with it to be brought up, and for us to begin to simply TALK about this particular bug here and find a solution that works.

So, hit me with the critiques of the idea, and let's start this ball rolling.

 

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

But here is where I disagree. In one case you have a recourse. You can invade back. It allows for the aggression built up in a story to be released. It's part of the map game. Tit for tat. You know it the moment you go major it can, and will happen. This however, isn't part of the map game. It's an exploit of it. See, in this case, only one side can hit. They themselves can't be hit. They have zero consequences for any actions what so ever. And no other power on the board has any capacity to do what would logically be done in this case. It's like finding an invulnerability glitch in a shooter. You can attack, but can't be hurt. And that doesn't make sense story wise. Where as, invasions do. You invade, they invade, so on so forth. It's war. K Kaine Australis

 

[Vora Kaar]

While I understand the value of it being a "Fair game" I want to play devils advocate for you in this instance.

If a faction is only in one hex, Then it can spend at the very least, HALF of all of its resources to defend that singular hex. Meaning it would be well defended comparable to a Larger faction trying to defend a non-Capital Hex. It gives credence that a singular hex, would be well defended instead of trying to spread our resources to defend other hexes. Which is why I feel it should stay as it is. And not have a rule change. Afixed with the old saying of,

A man with a single gun, is a better shot, than a man with a thousand guns.

The idea is that the man with a single gun will know how his single gun operates in and out, with such accuracy and proficiency, that no one can beat him at it, while the man with a thousand guns will have difficulty trying to perform the same feats with every gun.

If a Single Hex Faction is good at defending its own hex, while attacking others from afar, then they should be allowed too. While factions that are large and expansive in their influence, would be good at fielding much more, but have less capacity in the realistic terms of a battle.

Do not get me wrong, this is a very good suggestion, and please do come up with more ideas that could improve the map/PVP games that are currently ramping up in activity. However, I feel this is one thing that should not be changed.

Allya Vi'Dreya

 

[Alkor Centaris]

From a story perspective, wouldn't it make more sense to try and use diplomacy or reach out to allies to help find some kind of solution, rather than play back and forth around invasions?

If the only solution is to "make it so a hex can be invaded," it doesn't really seem like you're looking for a story, it seems more like you're just looking for a way to end the war.

/2¢

 

[Vanir Eris]

Honestly, I like this Allya Vi'Dreya and I would have some things to add, but all things considered best to let my train of thought die lol.

 

[Vora Kaar]

Vanir Eris

How many Single Hex Factions have been on the board that are having the activity of a Major fact and last longer than a couple months? Not currently, I mean in the entirety of the 7 years on the site? Its only really been a thing for the past year or so. As most factions that spawn from a Rebellion only last a couple months then die out due to activity checks, or are absorbed into a larger faction.

Its a niche gameplay style that is rarely done because a lot of activity comes from doing dominions. Instead, if a faction is getting that Via invasions, Skirmishes, and other faction based threads, which a lot of times are known to go stale before they finish, Then I say let them.

 

[Fatty]

I don't like being the Debby downer when it comes to suggestions, as I know how frustrating it feels when you think you've come up with a good idea and people don't seem to be for it, but unfortunately I don't see this as an issue.

The map game is a strategy game, it isn't super complex but strategic all the same. This is a pretty strong strategy on paper, and maybe in practice too, but being able to counter invade an otherwise unassailable hex isn't the answer. The answer is taking the long road of dominating Hexes to reach your aggressor and then invading them.

This is a classic "Tall" play style vs "Wide" play style. Both have advantages, and right now you're seeing it in action. The advantage of the Wide empire being that once they reach the Tall one, the Tall one has nowhere to run since they opted not to expand. Until then, though, the Tall one can attack anywhere with impunity.

 

[Vanir Eris]

Vora Kaar I made edits before I saw your post, decided it wasn't the right tone I meant to set and fixed it.

 

[Vora Kaar]

Vanir Eris
Perfectly fine. All good on my end!

 

[Laira Darkhold]

I disagree with the above suggestion. As Picard once said, It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

The benefit of your faction being a single hex is you can only be invaded by adjacent Factions. Disadvantage is, one invasion kills your faction.

If you are having trouble and cannot invade your opposition back because of this, I hear map tentacles in long dominion chains, having allied factions, and Mandate: Galactic Nomad are options to counter such a tactic being used to your detriment.

#ReturnOfTheTentacles

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

L Laira Darkhold has summed up my opinion on this matter. Being a one-hex faction - and one that actively involves itself in the map game via invasions and the like - is a super, super niche style of gameplay. In fact, we only have a single case. People like to use their differently coloured crayons on the map to paint as much of it in their colour as possible...so it's doubtful it will ever be anything more than niche.

You can only get invaded by neighbours, but it just takes one invasion and you're off the map. Far as I'm concerned, it gives the map game greater flexibility and makes things more dynamic.

Is it vexing for a big faction? Well, yes, just like the Galactic Empire found those pesky Rebels and their hidden bases vexing. Or how any RL great power finds guerrillas annoying because they don't follow the rule book of conventional warfare.

If tentacling over is not feasible or too tedious, there's always the option of bribing a faction that's closer than you to invade the people giving you trouble. Credits are pointless, but there's always Factory toys to sweeten the deal. Actual diplomacy and coalition-building.

 

[Adhira Chandra]

I understand the frustration that a multi-hex faction might feel at being bombarded by a distant single-hex faction, but I also don't think it would be "fair" to permanently disadvantage all current and future single-hex factions over a handful of undesirable outcomes.

If this were to be a rule change, I would say make it a mandate that major factions can opt to take. Major factions can counter-invade single hex factions who invade them but may no longer counter-invade multi-hex factions who invade them. If it is really such a massive concern, I think that would be a worthy trade-off.

Otherwise, I don't see the value of this rule change save to remedy a very narrow concern.

 

[Haon Hafey]

I would agree with the statement of making a Mandate to counter attack people from a far distance, to at least pop that faction hex and make them retake it. It would stop mainly in my mind a lot of alliances from across the board to simply smack you with the full force of a single major faction without some form of consequence. If you are a single faction, this can be dangerous but can easily be countered if one would simply just get two hexes.

Regardless, I just agree with the Mandate part. Major Factions at a single hex...yes annoying but again, they exist to be that.

 

[The Red of Sinner]

I'd have to agree with this one with some edits being made of course. A one hex faction traversing the galaxy to invade a faction with many more recourses at hand should be capable of being invaded. It is only fair, in some shape or form that a one hex faction have major weaknesses to fit this...well this exploit really that's become a major strength.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

L Laira Darkhold hit the bulls eye. Her suggestion/solution promotes a co-op'd story with other writers, possibly from other factions, It gives plenty of build up for a story and clear ramifications for map game consequences. Risk and reward. IT would take time to do dominions to chain to a single hex faction, BUT hey if your having fun who cares? Am I wrong? There are clear ways to fight back. They may not be as quick as you want but they exist. Dare to mess up the map a little and make those ugly tentacles. Cmon #Releasethekracken.

I do not agree with this suggestion and the view of seeing single hex factions as a "Bug" in the map game system. Statistically there has not been enough active one hex factions to even start down this path. This is something new to the map game and is not a "bug". Stop trying to resolve this OOC as glitch or bug under the guise of story when it can be resolved just as easy through IC actions and direction. Story is what you make of it and will always end up being a collaboration of ideas and its going to look different or not make sense at times.

I understand. One hex factions can be vexing, annoying and down right inconvenient for larger hex factions. Its the new strange, You gotta roll with it. One hex factions are glass cannons, just go break the glass.

"Moar pew pew, less QQ" ~ Spencer Varanin xD

 

[Hailyn]

It is possible for something to be unlikable and still work as intended. The single hex game is an all-or-nothing play that bets on the ability to survive through other means besides literal growth of territory. The risk to lose interest and activity is a much greater risk than facing an endless wave of invasions, you can always dominion another planet but you can't always recapture the interest of members that have left for greener pastures.

Eventually even the idea of playing at one hex and just constantly invading other factions will see a gradual loss in steam and interest once it loses its novelty. The only question is whether that will come before or after the factions facing them buckle from the natural expiration of traditional faction styles.

As much as I am not a fan of the single-hex major factions, though it has less to do with invasions and more to do with the principle of such, I don't think they have benefits that outweigh all of the drawbacks to not growing their faction. It might be hard to see now, without knowing what to look for, but it'll slowly become much more obvious that there is an inherent risk in playing the map game this way.

 

[Luca Donskoi]

I voiced my opinion about this before and staff reinforced that the rule would stay. However, I do like that this is being brought up again. My opinion on this isn't at all about making things "fair," but rather about keeping things enjoyable for all involved. If your objective and reasoning behind staying a 1 hex faction is to exploit the rule so that you can invade whoever you want to without the consequence of being invaded yourself, it's no longer about writing for enjoyment and creating a story. It's about trying to troll others and it's toxic.

So I agree that there should be a way to counteract what we see actively happening on the board here. The difficulty is in finding a viable option for that. Constant invasions without the fear of repercussion shouldn't have a place here. Just look to real life for example. Would you let someone punch or attack you and you not fight back to defend yourself? No, you'd hit back. And that's exactly what should be allowed here.

All in all, my 2 cents is this: if you're opting to stay a 1 hex faction in order to be a pest with no consequence, that's not cool and there should be something in the rules that allows for the agitated to fight back against the agitator. Whether that's making it so that a 1 hex faction can be invaded while invading another faction as Allya stated at the opening of this or something else is to be determined.

This is full and true and exploitation of the rules. I personally do not believe a 1 hex faction that continues to invade others without recourse should continue to have the protection of the capital hex rule.

 

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

Alkor Centaris | K Kaine Australis | Vora Kaar | L Laira Darkhold | Grrwunhoooll Agaburry | The Red of Sinner | Adhira Chandra | Fatty | Siobhan Kerrigan | Haon Hafey


First, I want to thank each and everyone of you for taking the time to respond to this. It means a lot that we can have an open discussion and keep it civilized and free from drama, and finger pointing. Thank you.

Since you each took the time to respond to me, let me do the same in return.

First, Lazarus. As always, I respect your opinion, but if you know me, I humbly disagree. Now, while you are true in that a lone gunman has the capacity to be a better shot than a man trying to wield a thousand guns, and would be better at defense, this would also make them much worse at offense. They would lack the expansive resources that these larger groups would have, and would have difficulty reaching out across the expanse to attack a target at all, and still be able to defend their territory. It’s why I suggested, only if they attacked. It would stretch their forces thinner, and make it much harder for them to defend.

Now, let’s add in Alkor into this too. Another man I respect greatly. Now, the story of the Rebels comes to mind. They were a small group, powerful beyond belief compared to most of their other contemporaries in their capacity to field forces. They were simply up against a massive empire that had far more resources and troops than them, and it forced them to have to play differently. They struggled in both defensive and offensive abilities, but found victory by playing more clever. However, they also found defeat on several occasions, barely surviving at all. The real story is in the struggle. This is the essence of star wars.

So, perhaps a way around this, is to allow a single hex faction like this, that if they are attacked from afar, and are defeated, they can choose another hex to pop back into. This way, the struggle still remains, but it’s consequences are lessened and their ability to recover from the set back remains.

Now Kaine, I would liken this to a shooter game. It’s how the map game has always appeared to me. I guess this one goes to most of you, because, it explains why I use the terminology and why I even brought this up in the first place.

Invasions and the map game are matches. Each team can have players who dominate the kill count, but still lose the match. And vice versa. You are able to attack the enemies, accomplish goals and the like, you can have matches. Sadly, like shooters, most of our invasions are teams pitted against one another, rather than cooperative writers trying to tell the best stories by working together (I suck at shooters). There are exceptions, to be sure. But, for most of it.

So, the way I see it, is its kept in line by the matches themselves. You are able to have them and while one team may have the advantage, everything keeps moving.

I see this, rightly, or wrongly, as a bug. Because, how I see it is a person finding an invulnerability cheat and using that to play the match. It doesn’t mean they will always win, but it means they can’t be defeated when you encounter them. Again though, why do I see it this way?

Because, a tendril does nothing, when there is a mandate that can be switched to as enemies get closer, to simply move the location of your hex to another spot and force the entire system to start again. Allies, also do nothing in this scenario due to the same reasons.

So, suddenly, we have an enemy that can’t be hit by any weapon. Has the capacity to evade it over and over if they choose. Now, sure you can win the matches time to time, but now add in, the matches are always of their choosing. They pick the maps, they pick the terms. This feels like a broken mechanic. Now, I am not saying anyone WOULD do this. I’m simply saying they can.

People tend to abuse exploits they find for long periods of time, until stopped by the game developers patching the game.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

PAGE CLAIM​

So, suddenly, we have an enemy that can’t be hit by any weapon. Has the capacity to evade it over and over if they choose. Now, sure you can win the matches time to time, but now add in, the matches are always of their choosing. They pick the maps, they pick the terms. This feels like a broken mechanic. Now, I am not saying anyone WOULD do this. I’m simply saying they can.

Accurate description of Chaos. Are you really surprised?

Unpopular opinion: Only reason this thread is here is because the CIS is unhappy about their most recent loss to the AoC, the only one hex faction of the board that actively invades. Its not about anyone else or anything else. No reason to beat around the bush. Winning and losing is a part of the map game. And while I dont agree on how you look at the map game as a shooter game, I will say the old "meta" per say is gone. Every major faction on the map is vulnerable even the CIS. You can sit in a OOC suggestion thread complaining the rules are not fair and that it feels bad to no longer have "control" or you could be the paragon of your own suggestion and try collaborating with others and see if you can make something of future situations regarding the perceived issue.

After all you did say that sadly Invasions are more like teams pitted against one another instead of cooperative writers coming together. Thats something in your power to change too.

 

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

Grrwunhoooll Agaburry

I'm so sorry you felt the need to bring salt into this discussion.

I don't speak for the CIS, or anyone in it. I'm a writer in many factions, including AoC, SJO, EE, Darkwire, and others. I would kindly ask that, we leave the salt at the door, and instead, continue with the discussion of ideas. Thank you.