Should we get rid of Invasions/Major Faction Influence Clouds?

[Cyrus Tregessar]

Honestly my main complaint with invasions is that they feel overly simplistic. I want the whole deal. When the Empire invaded Hoth it involved several distinct phases.

1. Searching and finding the rebel base. There was a high chance for failure here, and in the end they only went ahead because Darth Vader said so.
2. Setting up the blockade. Imagine if this had been opposed to allow the rebels more time to prepare. Also worth noting that it too was bungled (and thus the rise of Admiral Piett).
3. The 'Battle of Hoth.' Specifically referring to the AT-AT's advance against the rebel lines. Worth noting this was a totally asymmetric fight. Of course at this point the rebels weren't trying to win, just slow the Empire down long enough to evacuate.
4. The evacuation. With the Ion Cannon and so on.

Invasions here are more 'bum rush the planet with 2x as many characters' and while I like them well enough, there's a lot more that could be done. I can understand, though, why have a more involved process might not appeal. Certainly it would slow things down. Still, if we're talking about the system behind invasions as being flawed, it's something to consider.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]

I cannot like this post enough.

 

[Tefka]

Honestly my main complaint with invasions is that they feel overly simplistic. I want the whole deal

I totally agree with you, with some exceptions:

1. We can't require fleeting. I know some want us to, but we can't. Not every invasion has dedicated fleeters involved.
2. Invasion rules need to be simplistic. It's so karking chaotic and confusing, not just from a character's standpoint, but from a writer's. I don't want people to ALSO have to worry about rulesets when they're looking through posts trying to figure out who has done what to their character.
3. The Invasion rules are a baseline and there has been plenty of experimenting with that baseline. I wish to see more, but wish to underline the fact that it should be agreeable experimentation, not forced experimentation, between Faction Leaders.

With that said, I am looking at changing up the Invasion rules to account for different locations to allow for more diversity, and to help with spreading out the amount of posts involved in one thread over several instead.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

Honestly my main complaint with invasions is that they feel overly simplistic. I want the whole deal. When the Empire invaded Hoth it involved several distinct phases.

And there is half the problem. Invasions are purely PVP or Fleeting/Objective base brawls which end as quickly as they started. The only motivation to be in them is for the protection or expansion of an influence cloud, which is why they get so many replies.

 

[Tefka]

The only motivation to be in them is for the protection or expansion of an influence cloud,

Definitely not for the motivation of progressing crazy, wacky, or epic stories in the middle of a large-scale conflict.

Nobody does that here.

 

[Saki]

Yeah kark this I'm going back to that guy's crabshack.

What? Where? No I was never there and have no idea what happened but the times before large politics when you had bad guys and good guys and the people in between and the fights were more for the souls of the grey, the ones who could tip the scales and win you the galaxy. Star Wars had many things but the struggle of good vs evil was there and it was great. Here a great deal of the good guys, good factions are dumb and harm themselves more then the bad guys, the bad guys barely have to try to be the more appealing group and everyone in between just goes with the flavor of the month half the time. When I don't have two other families living in my house from the fires and can go back to really really having some fun I'll sit down and write it all out with some things that I have seen done in years past to try and get more fun, less angst and well I want to have invasions going to eventually punch and fight Tasvong.

 

[Darth Kentarch]

Definitely not for the motivation of progressing crazy, wacky, or epic stories in the middle of a large-scale conflict. Nobody does that here.

If that were the case you would see more skirmishes and battles erupt outside the invasion thread tag, no stakes, all the potential.

 

[Captain Larraq]

If that were the case you would see more skirmishes and battles erupt outside the invasion thread tag, no stakes, all the potential.

Ive always heard a lot of talk about skirmishes for Fleeting combat, but few ever actually take place. Skirmishes are... hard to rally support for. people want a trophy to fight for.

Best bet with that is to crank out an awesome Tech or NPC submission and let the skirmish winner have it.

*shrug*

 

[rain21199]

I think it's terrible that it is getting to the point where the staff even have to ask this question. You might lose a bloody planet, big deal. I don't see why faction leaders fight about this stuff. Honestly to save time we should just have an RP judge come up with the invasion ruling because from what I've heard so far it basically comes to that every single time. I bet if you gave someone like me the ownership of the republic, we would all have a lot more fun of a time. Just relax guys. Worry about school, worry about work, worry about your families. When you're here, don't sweat it. We're here to have fun.

Now for my input on how invasions should be run. This system would put a lot more working into the administration but it seems like the best idea in my opinion. Run invasions like events. Have someone who isn't biased towards a faction act as a sort of DM, or have multiple people do it. Run the thing like a game. Have fleeting that actually affects what's happening on the ground instead of the normal two different agendas type thing we have going. If a faction has home field advantage, then let's see that in action. Admins should really talk to me more. I've got tons of ideas.

 

[Vulpesen]

For those who think its a great idea to get rid of invasions and fill the map (though the votes show a LARGE minority) I have this to say. I hope you don't plan on starting any major factions. Because you take out all but dominions, then all the areas get filled and that means that no matter how many people are on your side, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL you are ever gonna even make yourself a major faction... unless of course you want a single planet in unknown space.

 

[Saki]

[member="Cain Laatl"] this is not always true, the faction leaders have been able to at times come to a clear winner. Empress Teta came down to who did more and it was agreed without much staff intervention. I believe Carida was just called a stalemate, Alderaan the RPJ only got called in after three ways of blowing up, destroying the one objective kept getting mitigated to prevent losing. In the invasions between the Sith Empire and Republic those were worked out perfectly and Kaine with Trent had a good communication throughout all of it. Though I do like your idea for relaxing and having fun the Republic sorely needs that.

 

[Onrai]

[member="Darth Tsolan"]

I don't recall there having been a hiatus on invasions in the time I've been here... But waiting until the map is totally filled out will definitely encourage more war, more invasions, more conflict, and generally make things a lot more interesting. In my opinion, anyways.

 

[rain21199]

[member="Saki"] I have very little knowledge of what happens in invasion disscusions. I don't take part in them, so I was just going off of what I've read and my assumptions. Thanks for the info though.

 

[Fatty]

Damn it... I had an awesome post going on, than I hit a wrong key and it got erased.

Anyway, I have a proposal to make that hopefully isn't too complicated:

Make Invasions, an Over Thread. Skirmishes are based on a single Invasion objective, and involve one location. They may or may not have additional rules/objectives attached to them.

So opening an Invasion is really just a deployment phase, where you organize your forces for the invasion. Then you have your skirmishes, and depending upon who won what objectives in those skirmishes, it will be easier to tally the score. Then once the Skirmishes are finished, and the victorious group occupies the objective, the rest of the Invasion can act as a wrap up. In the wrap up, if the victorious faction has not entirely completed every objective, the losing faction has a chance to change the tide.

For example. Let's say there is a hypothetical planet with a command station (Skirmish a), a shield generator (Skirmish b), and a power station (Skirmish c). The Invaders take the Power Station, but fail to take the other objectives. The Defenders will regroup their forces and assault the stolen objective. The Invaders then have the difficult choice of either sabotaging their Power Station, or trying to stay their ground and repulse the Defenders from retaking the objective.

If they blow up the Power Station, the Shields go down, which allows minimal reinforcements to have one last shot at taking the command center. If they fail to blow it up they lose. If they fail to take the command center they lose. However, if they do take the command center, they are victorious because then they will have the only two objectives that matter after destroying the third objective. There should be a consequence post-invasion however if they decide to destroy an objective. Though that can be decided later.

If they defend the Power Station and succeed, they can regroup and attempt to take another objective. If they fail, they lose and must retreat.

I'm sure this sounds confusing, but it really is quite simple.

On its MOST BASIC LEVEL, the Invasion thread is just people shifting and moving around (and tells the over story), and the Skirmish threads are the battles (the mini stories). Battles are won, but they don't win the war. Invasions tell the story of how a select few battles win that war.

 

[The Upright Man]

I feel that Invasions have a massive flaw. As it has been brought up before, it's a giant duel-fest. There is nothing strategic about it except for "Okay I'll help him, and we'll group them"

I'd like to see Invasions RP'ed out on a more massive scale. It is, after all, the invasion of an entire planet, not a single city. To capture a single city doesn't determine the capture of a nation, does it? So why should a single city determine the capture of a planet. While I'd still like duels incorporated into Invasions, I'd also like to see armies, and fleets, playing a bigger role.

 

[Damien Zannen]

If there was a Way Invasions to some how be more Organized id love that, But the Opinion vote to remove them feel wrong. Invasions are one of the RP's that i feel define this Community and show how everyone is needed to fit a Objective. Alot of the times its Uber Crazy yeah but thats ok. Right?

For me Invasions are like massive Raids in MMO's. Fun, Long & Sometimes a Pain but in the end you always say. Wow that was pretty fun. It Strengthens Faction Bonds and makes Relationships, not matter how big the faction is or if they win or lose.

I vote no man.

And for the Major Faction Influence i cant say much on that because i favor the Bad guys.

 

[Garith Darkhold]

With my experience I would say do not get rid of invasions. Stopping them stops the conversation and then differences do not get solved.


Sorry I have not read everyone’s post yet in here but I new my opinion right away.

 

[Raziel]

invasions an influence clouds have never been a problem. and they still are not. 'playing to win', encouraging bad behavior, and not taking the opinions and enjoyment of opposing writers into consideration has been the primary stem from which current problems has arisen.

This.

The invasions cause a lot of OOC issues, and frankly the writing is often just bad. It's no fun reading a post where someone is just outlining potential cause and effect to try and gain the upper hand.

If people were more respective of the other writers and more focused on trying to build stories around these invasions (see the dread guard on druckenwell) it would be so much better.

Part of the issue is factions want to win and the influence clouds drive this. No one wants to faction they've put a huge amount of effort into OOC to be steamrollered into the ground by a bunch of fourteen year old godmoders who aren't too fussy about getting their homework in. So obviously faction Admins really want their team to win their battles, even if it might not fit with the storyline of the characters.

There must be a way to make these less stressful for the factions, whilst also keeping them going. Let's be honest they're flash points of activity, where people get to showcase their characters. However, I can't think of what it might be. Maybe each faction could have a few core worlds that literally can't be invaded? A safe haven if they got rolled to roleplay from.

I don't know. But I'd rather the focus be on collaborative story writing, not winning a game that can't really be played out fairly.

 

[Raziel]

I also like fatty's post, and it's very similar to a one sided campaign I've run before.

It isn't hard to put together a simple decision tree with three objectives at a time.

Maybe three phases that lead to results between complete loss, complete victory and a stalemate (where the invader has a foothold)

Each Objective could have a writer limit and be a separate thread. The phases would help break it down so a side can't just be steamrollered in 24 hours, might help the pacing a bit.

 

[Ordo]

Fleet skirmish me now! If you get stressed play outside or something.