Approved Tech Rusty's Personal BFG (Gertrude)

[Rusty]

Image Source:

This is close, though I'm not a huge fan of the P-90 style grip. Those things suck if you want any sort of precision aiming. Gives you a good idea of the size and approximate shape we're working with.

Intent: A personal weapon for the character Rusty

Development Thread: N/A Want to see if this will be approved before I try to use it outside of a closed story

Manufacturer: Custom

Model: HAW (Hybrid Automatic Weapon)

Affiliation: N/A

Modularity: No

Production: Unique

Material: The body of the weapon is milled from a billet of high strength durasteel. The barrel is a tungsten/nickle durasteel alloy designed for high heat resistance, and is further fitted with a cryogenic cooling jacket it aid in heat dispersion. The rifling consists of 8 grooves, with one turn in 275mm.

Classification: Hybrid of blaster and slugthrower

Size: Man Portable
Length: 190 cm

Weight: 32 kg

Ammunition Type: Requires blaster gas and the projectiles. Power and ammunition provided by a "battle box" that can be worn as a pack

Ammunition Capacity: Battle box holds 500 rounds of ammunition, as well as the power for that many shots. A 500 shot gas cartridge is stored internally. The battle box is essentially an ammo can strapped to a power generator. The ammo feeds out of the can with via belt, when can cause jams if the links get kinked or you get a stick or something stuck in it. The power generator is pretty basic fare. It supplies power to both the blaster portion of the firing mechanism and the cooling jacket, as well as any other accessories like powered optics. It's not an ideal solution. The box has to be placed beside the weapon in order to feed properly, and a stray shot will turn the thing into a pretty decent representation of a 200 kilo bomb. All that will be left of Rusty for the funeral are fond memories.

Effective Range: Depends on the round, but the maximum effective range is 2500 meters. Anything after that is requires more prayer than skill to hit the target

Rate of Fire: Semi automatic. NOTE: do not visit paintball store for parts.

Special Features: The hybridization of blaster and slugthrower allows the projectile to reach velocities normally reserved for spacecraft. A Verpine shattergun will still smoke it in terms of muzzle velocity, but the action is considerable more robust, and can fire a wide variety of rounds, including armor piercing incendiary, discarding sabot, canister, and nonlethal low density (NLD) plastic frangible rounds. I'm also working on an iridium-based projectile designed to counter lightsabers, though that will have its own submission.

Description: Gertrude is, in my mind, the bastard love child of a crew served machine gun and the venerable E-web. When the trigger is squeezed, energy is pumped into the gas chamber, exciting it and producing the beginnings of a blaster bolt. Unlike a normal blaster, where the galven circuitry would shape it into a coherent bolt, the energy produced is instead shunted into the firing chamber. The projectile utilizes a caseless propellant charge that is ignited by the bolt, which also adds its own energy to the forward momentum of the projectile. The blaster gas chamber sits directly under the chamber of the barrel, and the energy is funneled upwards. The projectile portion of the weapon is gas operated and utilizes a disintegrating link ammo belt.

Gertrude is not a subtle weapon. The muzzle flash is visible for miles around, and the report reaches well over the comfort level for most species. In a confined space, such as a ship, it's basically like firing off 3 flashbang grenades a second, only with the added bonus of a projectile that comes screaming out of the barrel at 2000 meters per second. The recoil is tremendous. Though internal inertial dampers negate about 90% of it, a considerable amount of energy is transferred to the shooter anyway. Use is not recommended for organic beings without full facial protection, something along the lines of a Mandalorian's helmet. However, the sheer shock value makes up for the relatively slow rate of fire.

Primary Source: N/A

 

[Hailyn]

projectile that comes screaming out of the barrel at 8500 meters per second

8.5 km/s exceeds the average Railgun projectile speed, this will need to be toned down dramatically. The average sniper rifle has a muzzle velocity of at peaks of 1.6 km/s (1600~ m/s).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass-driver_cannon

 

[Rusty]

Muzzle velocity is reliant on a number of factors.

In most modern rifles, they're carefully designed to balance stopping power with usability. A longer barrel will produce a higher velocity. So will a stronger powder charge. Put too long a barrel on the weapon and it becomes too heavy, and too much powder makes it unmanageable for the shooter. Reliance on traditional powder/percussion cap cartridges is another major factor. Gunpowder is, at the end of the day, not actually all that great of an explosive. Its primary advantage is that it's both stable and easily ignited. Whereas high explosives can generate a shockwave that travels well over 9 k/s, gunpowder will not actually explode on its own. It has to be in some sort of sealed container, otherwise you just get a lot of heat and smoke.

Gertrude doesn't utilize gunpowder. I based her muzzle velocity off of C-4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-4_(explosive)#Detonation), which produces a shockwave of 8,092 m/s. Given the that the chamber focuses the blast in a single direction, when added to the additional energy of the blaster bolt, 8,500 m/s seemed reasonable. While the forces involved would utterly destroy any modern sniper rifle, Gertrude is constructed using Star Wars materials and utilizes inertial dampers to reduce felt recoil dramatically. It's still a bit much for anyone smaller than a wookiee, but it won't shake itself apart.

However, if you still want the muzzle velocity to come down, I'm sure we can work something out.

 

[Hailyn]

I based her muzzle velocity off of C-4 (https://en.wikipedia...ive)#Detonation), which produces a shockwave of 8,092 m/s. Given the that the chamber focuses the blast in a single direction, when added to the additional energy of the blaster bolt, 8,500 m/s seemed reasonable.

Going by a plasma-driven round via Mass Drivers in Star Wars Canon, the uppermost velocity you will be reaching is 2.5 km/s (2500 m/s).

For a plasma driven round from an electrothermal cannon (an electrical arc vaporizes the propellant into a plasma to create the requisite pressure to propel the slug), the peak was ~2.5 km/s.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass-driver_cannon

This, outside of chemical propellant (which has a peak of 1.8 km/s), is the closest to what you're describing. To create a miniature blast within the chamber of your rifle with the output of C-4 would tear the durasteel apart, as would a thermal detonator.

 

[Rusty]

Not necessarily. There are a number or real world analogues where explosions are contained and directed; one needs only look at rockets, for instance. Tremendous pressures are contained within a combustion chamber and then released via a nozzle, using materials readily available on earth and fuel sources that are far more energetic and in far greater quantities. Not only that, but the reaction is sustained, as opposed to the individual bursts we see in Gertrude.

Given that nearly every canon source describes durasteel as being much stronger than anything we have here on earth outside of maybe some exotic alloys floating around labs, designing a pressure vessel that can contain the explosion isn't terribly difficult. The stresses involved are enormous to be sure, but we're dealing with a technology base that can contain enough energy in a spacecraft to allow it to not only travel faster than the speed of light, but travel halfway around a galaxy in a matter of hours or days.

If anything, the mass driver article severely underestimates the speed of the projectiles involved.

That's not to say I'm not willing to compromise. If it says the fastest rail gun rounds travel at 6 k/s, I'm willing to drop Gertrude down to 5 k/s.

 

[Hailyn]

If it says the fastest rail gun rounds travel at 6 k/s, I'm willing to drop Gertrude down to 5 k/s.

I will need huge drawbacks from this then, as a railgun that is being referenced is a space-station mounted hypervelocity gun.

If you want a highlight of all these drawbacks, I will list them. Otherwise drop it to 2.5 km/s or below. I'm not going any higher than that without further issues.

 

[Rusty]

It's enormously heavy. Between the battle box and Gertrude herself, we're talking a hundred kilograms at least.

Recoil is equally fearsome. Though it can be hip or shoulder fired, doing so is an absolute last resort.

There is no stealth factor. At all. You can spot the muzzle flash from orbit, and the report is loud enough to be heard for miles around.

While the battle box can be swapped out fairly easily, changing out the tibanna gas cartridge takes upwards of thirty seconds.

Rate of fire is low, about three rounds per second. For crew served weapons, that might as well be like comparing a needle and thread to a sewing machine.

If the battle box is penetrated by return fire, Rusty is dead. The resulting explosion will leave one hell of a crater and nothing but fond memories for the funeral.

It's a unique weapon. Between the complexity of the firing mechanism and the expense of the materials involved, even building a second model would be prohibitively expensive.

Gertrude will not be used in duels without the express permission of the opponent.

Is there anything you would like to add?

 

[Hailyn]

Ammunition Capacity: Battle box holds 500 rounds of ammunition, as well as the power for that many shots. A 500 shot gas cartridge is stored internally

Reduce this to 20.

And address the 8500 m/s info in your description to as mentioned above.

 

[Rusty]

20 or 200? Not sure if that was a typo.

 

[Hailyn]

20 or 200? Not sure if that was a typo.

Twenty.

 

[Rusty]

Then, barring a technological reason, I withdraw my application. Your proposed restriction on ammunition capacity is unreasonable, and completely defeats the purpose of the weapon in the first place. I understand that you have a duty to ensure fairness in RP. However, that does not mean I will accept arbitrary and utterly pointless restrictions that render the weapon useless for its intended purpose.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Rusty"]
If you would like you can request a second chance and have another judge review this.

 

[Rusty]

How do I go about doing that?

 

[Hailyn]

[member="Rusty"]
You can go to the Second Chance Request thread in the Factory Discussion Board and drop a link to this submission and list the reason why you would like the submission to be reviewed by another, or (if the submission had been denied, also for future reference if you have one that does get denied) why you believe it should have been approved.

 

[Rusty]

Got it. Thanks.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Rusty"] [member="Popo"] Second Chance granted.

 

[Popo]

@Rusty @Spencer Jacobs
Not sure why it didn't tag me, but okay! Lemme read over this and we'll get to work.

 

[Rusty]

Cool beans. Thanks.

 

[Popo]

[member="Rusty"]
Alrighty, read through it and found a couple of things, so let's get started.

Size: Handheld. Sort of. It's meant to be fired from the prone, but can be hip or shoulder fired if you've got enough muscle. Jawas need not apply. Length: 190 cm Weight: 32 kg

Minor nitpick on my end. This is in effect an anti-tank rifle, so it'd technically be designated under the size of "man portable", but that's just me being picky. No real need to edit this, honestly.

Ammunition Type: Requires blaster gas and the projectiles. Power and ammunition provided by a "battle box" that can be worn as a pack

Hybrid slighthrowers are much like Mandalorian Rippers or Tusken Cycler Rifles in that they fire an energy enveloped bullet. You only need the power pack, not the tibanna gas, otherwise you're technically firing a slow moving slug within a blaster bolt. That means either you're not getting the range and power of the slug OR you're going to disrupt the blaster bolt which means you're losing the added power of the energy weapon. Just drop the tibanna gas from the sub and you should be golden in that regard.

Ammunition Capacity: Battle box holds 500 rounds of ammunition, as well as the power for that many shots. A 500 shot gas cartridge is stored internally

Again, go ahead and drop the gas cartridge for the reasons stated above. As for the battle box, you'll need to describe how it works in the submission. I'm assuming it's a sort of backpack ammo can, but I could be wrong. If it is, it'll be fed by a chute or tube I'm assuming, in which case it will have a tendency to jam. You'll need to include that.

Rate of Fire: Fully automatic, though due to practical limitations, it's capped to 200 rounds per minute.

No. Sorry, but no. This will be semi-automatic. There will be no discussion on this. A carton of ammo with 500 rounds, sure, I can get behind that. Toss in that it's fully automatic with 200 rounds a minute? That's a little over 8 rounds a second. Nope, sorry. That's asking to get reported straight out of the factory. Edit to semi-automatic, please.

The hybridization of blaster and slugthrower allows the projectile to reach velocities normally reserved for spacecraft.

Remove this, please. Anyone using a gun firing at velocities equivalent to spaceship weapons from a man-portable weapon would fire this once and then be sent to the field medic or morgue, depending on how badly they crush their shoulder or limbs, armor or not. If you want a good idea or analogy of how this works, during the Falklands War there were stories told of UK marines who had to stand on the base plates of the mortars so that the mortar crews would have a stable firing platform on the rocks and scree so they could give accurate support fire. The men who did this suffered broken ankles in the process. Not even a starship grade weapon and injuries occurred from being in contact with the weapon and firing it.

Description: Gertrude is, in my mind, the bastard love child of a crew served machine gun and the venerable E-web. When the trigger is squeezed, energy is pumped into the gas chamber, exciting it and producing the beginnings of a blaster bolt. Unlike a normal blaster, where the galven circuitry would shape it into a coherent bolt, the energy produced is instead shunted into the firing chamber. The projectile utilizes a caseless propellant charge that is ignited by the bolt, which also adds its own energy to the forward momentum of the projectile. The blaster gas chamber sits directly under the chamber of the barrel, and the energy is funneled upwards. The projectile portion of the weapon is gas operated and utilizes a disintegrating link ammo belt. Gertrude is not a subtle weapon. The muzzle flash is visible for miles around, and the report reaches well over 200 decibels. In a confined space, such as a ship, it's basically like firing off 3 flashbang grenades a second, only with the added bonus of a projectile that comes screaming out of the barrel at 5000 meters per second. The recoil is tremendous. Though internal inertial dampers negate about 90% of it, a considerable amount of energy is transferred to the shooter anyway. Use is not recommended for organic beings without full facial protection, something along the lines of a Mandalorian's helmet. However, the sheer shock value makes up for the relatively slow rate of fire.

Alrighty. Here we have some problems. I'll try to list them clearly for you.

• Hybrid slugthrowers don't work that way. They work by enveloping the projectile in energy as it flies down the barrel. Now, if you're using the energy/plasma to propel the projectile forwards, then this works, but it's not a true hybrid nor does it envelop the projectile to the best of my knowledge.
• 200 decibels of noise is heading into the "loud noises have killed me" range. At the very least you're looking at ruptured ear drums. Toss in the overpressure caused by this thing and without hearing protection you'll probably kill anyone within a good 5-15m radius of you. At the very least, you've successfully crippled them as their eardrums rupture and their internal organs are bruised or rupture as well. Go ahead and remove this and just put something along the lines of "really, really loud", though obviously you can be a bit more descriptive than how I put it.
• Currently, the fastest bullet in existence today is the .223 Winchester Super Short Magnum that fires at around 1,402 meters per second. Taking into account railguns, the variability of star wars tech, and the inertial dampeners you've installed coupled with the (presumably) large caliber of the weapon, I'm okay with this weapon reaching ~2,000m/s. This is faster than any equivalent weapon to the best of my knowledge, packs a nasty punch, keeps you from pulping your shoulder and torso with each shot, and generally balances the weapon out.

When ready, tag me and we'll move right along.

 

[Rusty]

[member="Popo"] I'm trying to address things in some kind of order, but that may or may not work out so well.

Alright, there seems to be some confusion due to the terminology, which is my fault. This isn't a hybrid weapon system in that the projectile is a combination of slug and energy. This is a hybrid in that the firing mechanism utilizes blaster technology to ignite a high explosive that couldn't ordinarily be ignited using a percussion cap. This accounts for the high muzzle velocity, something that rail guns would be able to match with easy. If you read the written description of the Verpine shattergun in the Dark Nest trilogy or Republic Commando series, they're getting comparable results from tiny little projectiles. If F=ma here like it does in the real world, that points to a small projectile going insanely fast. Other EMLA-type weapons, such as Jaina's QuietSnipe in Invincible, wreak similar havoc. The precedent is there. The wookiee page is, as is often the case, incomplete.

Also, inertial dampers allow starships to go from a relative standstill to faster than the speed of light in less than a second without turning the crew to paste. Scaling them down from protecting a ship a thousands times the weight of Gertrude means that, in a technical sense, there doesn't need to be any recoil at all. That was left in as a consideration to RP fairness. Having been near a mortar going off, I absolutely believe that they're capable of breaking ankles. Mind, the real problem as far as the mortar crewman are concerned is the weight. Damn things weigh a ton, even the small ones. Wait, what were we talking about?

As far as the rounds per minute, 200 is closer to 3 rounds a second. I'll change it to semi if you'd like, but Rusty is a Shard, so it's not like his trigger finger is going to get tired. Hell, with a trigger setup like something on a competition paintball gun, it could be technically semiauto and still smoke that 200 rpm mark. Not that I plan to.

It's the same situation with the noise. I don't mind dropping the 200 dB number off, but it makes no practical difference for the guy behind the trigger.

The battle box is easy. It's basically a portable power generator with an ammo can strapped to it. No feed chute necessary, as we're using linked ammo. The power generator powers the inertial dampers and kicks off the firing process. I can elaborate on that further in the product description once we get all the necessary changes finalized.

Did I miss anything?