Respecting Roleplay - Goddmodding/Metagaming

[Kahlil Noble]

4. Show respect to everyone in the role-play.

The above is a rule within the Role-play Rules as ordained by our benevolent Tefka (See http://starwarsrp.net/page/articles.html/_/role-play-rules/role-play-rules-r26 ), but it's one that seems to be brushed aside far too often. There is only a few things more disrespectful then Metagaming/Godmodding, but all we get as writers as a ruling for it is that there is no rules on Chaos against it. But that's just the IC side of it. Folks can be jerks on an OOC level, sending rude PMs, and get a free pass.

Have we, as a community, completely forgotten the very rules that this board has been founded on? Or are people taking things too personally? Discuss below, vote above!

Just, keep it respectful.

 

[Adenn Kyramud]

Agreed, should be a rule for everyone. That way things make sense IC and OOC, and people can be nicer

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Depends on your definition, what writers discuss in PMs to advance a plot or over Discord for similar reasons, could be viewed by many outside said conversation as godmodding/metagaming. The problem arises in the fact that both writers agreed to such terms outside of the RP regardless of it taking place in the Open RP or Private RP area. In such a case it would not fit either category, yet if they got reported it may get handled as an issue if neither writer can provide records of the conversation. Making this more of a blurred line in such a case, the points of contention may have been worked out in a voice chat where it is much harder to keep records of who said what and when.

In short, just because on first glance it looks like godmodding/metagaming, does not immediately qualify it as such a grievous offense.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]

This is true! But as of right now, even the most blatant and disrespectful cases of Metagaming are summed up to "It's not against the rules, and while frowned upon, nothing can be done about it."

Reports are handled case by case. Your example would obviously be chalked up to miscommunication and tossed aside as it should be. But should it not be against the rules to blatantly disrespect others with your metagaming/godmodding?

Food for thought!

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

I presented a specific case where it would NOT be. I did not mention this in general as being an acceptable thing. Miscommunication is EXTREMELY common and based simply on the emotion of the recipient as there is no tone, and for those who have problems communicating verbally, oftentimes it extends to the written realm as well. Unless you can decipher EXACT intent and the EXACT understanding of both parties then you are in a very fine, yet very grey area with regards to if the INTENT was malicious or not. Unless hard evidence can be presented that the intent was indeed malicious or the actions clearly based on OOC information, then the moderator, admin, or RPJ handling the case SHOULD indeed throw it out. In many cases this is the exact reason things have been dropped as there was no means with which to prove intent or miscommunication other than the basic 'he said/she said' argument from both sides.

It is for the reasons listed above that while rules are in place it is still very difficult to enforce them in an unbiased and fair manner when all you have is what each person is saying and nothing more.

 

[EllieEx]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"] And if it was proven and clearly recorded? what if they didn't agree to terms beforehand? would you consider it then?
This conversation, nor the rules, are not about what "looks like" metagaming, or rude PMs, but what verifiably is and has been proven to be.

I for one agree with the OP, [member="Kahlil Zambrano"] , metagaming and godmoding are an offense against rule 4 under roleplay rules.
I believe godmoding, metagaming and offensive PMs are blatant disrespect to the writers involved, they should be handled between the writers, and if the offender can't simply stop, then they should be subject to the staff's judgement.
This is how every Roleplaying group I have ever joined has dealt with the problem, this is how all roleplaying communities I have ever heard of has dealt with it and viewed it, and the fact that chaos doesn't even have a rule against it makes no sense to me, and I believe that it should be changed, or at the very least, chaos should change how it is dealt with by the staff by making it clear that it is to be treated as the issue it is: In violation of rule 4 under roleplay rules. as it is harmful to the community and the writers involved. rude PMs however are in violation of rule 4 under general rules, and should be treated as such.

 

[Fiolette Fortan]

Listen, we have a chain of command.

If something happens anywhere on this board, use that chain of command. Work it out between writers if there is any indication of disrespect, harassment or what have you then make a report send the evidence. If anything you've at least started a 'paper trail.'

 

[Alkor Centaris]

I was under the impression that GM and PG were already against the rules?

 

[Cay-Yo]

I believe that Metagaming & Godmoding are inherently disrespectful to not only the roleplay but the writers exposed it. There is a reason that most RP sites and venues flat out say that they're inappropriate. I think a little metagaming is needed to put yourself in the path of another player to start an RP but that should be where it ends. Godmoding has no place in any RP.

Honestly I would be surprised to find anyone who legitimately thinks that Metagaming and/or Godmoding are viable and constructive styles of play. It is so against what almost every roleplayer is taught or expected to do.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Alkor Centaris"] [member="Fiolette Raaf"]

Easy to say, but as I said in the opening post, they are not against the rules. In fact, the common response by the chain of command for these sort of things is "it is not against the rules, and while frowned upon nothing will be done."

Hence this thread being made. The Chain of Command has said it is not against the rules, and this thread is about whether people think it follows under the rule quoted in the OP.

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

Please read my above posts which already address all concerns brought forth in yours, [member="Vhei Wasp Naudir"].

Never ONCE did I mention that such things were ACCEPTABLE, nor did I even ONCE condone such behavior. I simply mentioned that in lieu of hard evidence that the case SHOULD in all fairness be dropped. I can guarantee you the writer being accused will likely have already been raked across the coals. Never once were offensive PM's discussed. I DID mention that miscommunications in text are very easy and extremely common because the emotion of the recipient figures heavily into how it is understood. I haven't argued that metagaming/godmodding/offensive PM's(since those are now part of this) are in any way something that should just be accepted.

I never said that writers should not first try to work things out, I figured that since that was listed on the board already it was understood that the case I was presenting is something that happens, and can lead to trouble without hard proof from one side that such things were agreed to beforehand, I have seen it lead to full permanent bans from boards because of 'he said/she said' being taken as gospel truth. The way the system on Chaos is SUPPOSED to work SHOULD, in theory, prevent such reports from being a common occurrence.

The first impression of what is read by either party is of very high importance, simply because it will shape the way that the recipient will respond to the rest of the conversation about the topic or topics, at hand. If it angers them then they are more likely to see it negatively and call godmodding/metagaming down the line if they before agreed to it. While not overly common it is something I have seen happen more than once over 4 different websites. You mention the command structure on Chaos being pretty standard, and yes, it is. The reason is very easily understood, it is based in common sense.

If offensive PM's have been sent, someone has godmodded/metagamed, and been asked to stop and still maintains such behavior after all other avenues are exhausted, yes, the person who was wronged should take it to staff. The accused would then be subject to staff judgement. The burden of proof lies on both parties to prove their case to staff, and should evidence not be presented by either side, in all fairness the case should be dropped. This is not an endorsement of such behavior by staff, nor are they overlooking it, they simply are refusing to rule with a lack of hard evidence for/against either party.

 

[Kalic Daws]

Um... [member="Kurayami Bloodborn"] , I think they’re saying the issue is that, even if someone has a history of legitimately meta or powergaming, as there no rules against them, the staff either decide or can only say that nothing can be done.

 

[EllieEx]

[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"] I have a couple things to say about this:

1 being that your post was made as i was finishing mine, thus I had no chance of seeing it until after I had already posted. I in fact did read it, but not until after, for those reasons.

2 being that the OP, [member="Kahlil Zambrano"] mentions the PMs in the very first post of this thread, which Is why I've mentioned it. I didn't bring anything into this that wasn't already here :]

3 being that everything past the first two lines of my first post were not directed at you, but rather a general expression, a contribution of my thoughts on the subject to the general public in this thread if you will.

4 being that I never accused you nor anyone in this particular thread at the time of my posting, of anything really. I asked you questions, It seems likely to me that you've interpreted it as me doing so, which is false, which I cannot help but notice that it relates to your statement about first impressions, which I follow with by reminding everyone that, while first impressions are indeed important, it is also important to remember that they are sometimes false. which, I'm sure the staff recognize, and I am sure are wary of when dealing with reports, as you yourself have said.

5 being that I myself was in the position of the one forced to deal with someone knowingly metagaming and refusing to change their ways upon what, at first, was a very simple, and very civil request to mend the rift not long ago. and I am very disappointed.
The staff informed me that:

I am not posting the rest of the conversation nor the particular staff member's name as to protect their privacy, but it was made clear to me by said staff member that no actions would be taken against the writer in question, nor metagaming at the time.

I can assure you that the writer in question was in fact not raked against any coals, nor has any metagamer nor godmoder I have heard of been, since I arrived.



No longer directed at bloodborn but to the general public here:

I agree with pretty much everything [member="Cay-Yo"] and [member="Fiolette Raaf"] have said thus far. If you want to be technical, a certain amount of meta is involved, such as knowing a character's location in order to start a roleplay, but I don't think that kind of outside knowledge has ever been considered metagaming.

Reports should be made when dealing with disrespect, harassment ect ect, it's where the trail starts, even if, such as my case, you were disrespected and nothing is to be done about it, eventually reports stack up, a profile and history are made, and someone else's report will benefit from that history, but not if it isn't recorded.
As for godmoding, no, it has no place in roleplay. it goes against everything, every community has ever stood for, roleplay is about story telling, on both sides, not just your own.

 

[Alkor Centaris]

I honestly think acting without knowledge your character could reasonably have is just garbage writing, so respectful of not...

Eh?

 

[Valdus Bral]

[member="Alkor Centaris"]

Agreed.

It's poor form but it also harms the story that may have been crafted by several other people all because someone has low standards. So while low standards shouldn't be against the rules, intentionally ruining the experience that this board is supposed to provide should be. Metagamming/Godmodding has no place here or on any other roleplay medium.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

​Basically what [member="Alkor Centaris"] & [member="Valdus Bral"] said.

​Also, as far as like something that can be judged like an Invasion? I'm fairly sure RPJ's take Metagaming & Powergaming into account when ranking victors. At least that is my impression.

​Public and Private roleplay is kind of a lovely yet horrible wild west of RP. But, that's why you can choose who you roleplay with.

 

[Kian Karr]

While I certainly think it should be against the rules to meta-game or god mode, I can tell you that one way I have dealt with it over the years is by completely ignoring it.

I make it a little game. If my opponent says something like:

"With a powerful two-handed slash at Kian's exposed arm, John Smith severed the limb just below the elbow."

I would reply with something like.

"The blow, meant to sever Kian's arm, was almost successful, but a powerful blast with the force allowed Kian to extricate his arm and meet the slash blade to blade."

Something along those lines. I enjoy this for two reasons:
(1) Under no circumstances does anyone ever get to tell me what happens to my character. If they make a particularly good attack, I'll take an injury - but I won't do it if they are telling me I'll take that injury. Attacks should always be described in details of what is intended, not what is to be.
(2) It really infuriates people who are into god-modding - and what better way to enjoy a thread then by angering, through perfectly legitimate methods, those who are RPing disrespectfully.

None of this is to say that we shouldn't do something about this as a community, I'm just giving examples of how to make it fun until progress is made!

 

[LT-137]

There has never been a rule against Godmodding and Metagaming on Chaos, and as per Tefka's words - it's heavily frowned upon if it does come into play and is reported. I've seen the examples everyone's put in this thread, and I'm surprised that not once anyone's properly mentioned Powergaming; which is essentially calling hits in collaborative combat. So, that leaves me to believe some folks don't even know what Metagaming, and Godmodding are.

Honestly speaking, I think this is nothing more than a waste of time and effort. The Force, in many ways, allows people to justify Metagaming in some respects and become Gods in the eyes or others. That's just one example torn from the top of my head, not even mentioning the various Supersoldier programs or advanced AI's out there. It's a thin line in making the Admins expand their rule-set to encompass those two, or three aforementioned items, when the structure is already in place to deal with it whenever it arises.

We self-police as a community. Those that are found to be metagaming, or godmodding, or powergaming, are often left without writing partners and ostracized by the masses. I honestly think that's punishment enough.

 

[Nixia Amabilia]

[member="Kahlil Zambrano"] - Im not too sure what your trying to suggest with this thread, But if its to more heavily regulate Godmodding and metagaming IC? Then thats not really needed. [member="Khonsu Amon"] summed it up. And besides with all the changes with Chaos wouldnt more regulation be a step in a different or opposite direction? Development threads, restricted materials, Rank tag restrictions and alot of other stuff that was before my time was removed for a reason I assume.

Why bring up Metagaming and Godmodding and attempt to correlate it with Rule 4? Why not let nature run its course. Those who learn to stop, will stop and grow and those who dont stop can grow also but might find it a tad hard to find writing partners.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

Self Policing is fine, when everyone is held to the same standard.

But people don't hold each other to the same standard. That random person you don't know versus your buddy. If you're well liked enough, self policing is nothing more then fluff.

At this point in time, 25 people have voted yes, it's disrespectful to godmod/metagame/powergame/what ever you want to call it. There's no rule against it. You can do it once or twice if your writing buddies find it halarious.

And nothing is there to stop you. It's a very broken system.