Suggestion Required Strengths & Weaknesses

[WelshPsych]

Hey all,

So, wanted to just put this out there that character profiles being required to have at least 2 strengths and weaknesses might not work for people who are building bios, and that switching it to something more of a suggestion or encouraged for people to do so would be better. Especially since there are a number of bios made where there aren't the required strengths and weaknesses and the writers aren't exactly punished for it.

Just wanted to bring the discussion up, see if others agreed or not and if there are other suggestions for how to go about it. And to see if it is a rule that could be changed.

Thanks!

 

[Dominik Borra]

I personally think that changing a rule just because people don't follow it, especially when following said rules gives better depth and OOC information and RP opportunities, as well as acting as a small FAQ section, would be terrible. It's rewarding those who just don't care, those with too high of egos, and those who don't want to play fair(some people are all 3?) instead of those who actually try.

 

[Tragic Writer]

I personally See it as a guideline, The strengths or weaknesses don't need to be physical. While many of the S's and W's can be implemented into their story, and may even drive some narrative between others, changing a rule is likely a bad idea.

The way I see it, If a rule is changed because People don't follow it, it can lead to more serious and major rules being broken, in the hopes that it would change to be more favorable to the rule breaker. I for one am all for BENDING a minor rule or two, it if leads to a fun balanced time, but I would never purposely break a rule

 

[Shan]

I think it's a rule from a bygone age when things revolved more around PVP. Nowadays I think it's more likely to be used for metagaming or trying to twist something to your own advantage. It's easier to just get rid of the rule I think, and if you want to try and figure out a character's weakness, either do it in game or ask about it. Nothing makes for a good story than an actual back and forth discussion about it in my opinion. So I think it's either best to remove the rule, or change the wording so that it's no longer required, and just recommended.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

Way back in the day I was one of those folks who harped on the character sheet being used as the rules said, specifically for pvp reasons. Back then, a list of force powers was required for Force Users. I went pretty hard on trying to make people do that, because it was required.

Then, it wasn't required anymore because it was outdated and, ultimately, unneeded. A realization I came to some time after. Strengths and Weaknesses are good writing tools for people who like to think about that thing, but to require them is unneeded for anyone but yourself. Put them in if you want to make sure you don't forget them, but for anyone else, for any reason they might conjure up, it's just a metagaming tool. You don't need to know Bobs strengths or Lindas weaknesses ooc unless you're planning to DM something for them, and if you are you can just ask them. Otherwise, it's something you learn in threads, through writing.

Oh and also I'm incredibly lazy and haven't finished a profile since I joined the site in 2014 so, that's my opinion.

 

[Darth Caedes]

I think weaknesses/flaws are the most compelling and interesting part of a character— but if it’s outdated, or folks aren’t obeying the “rules,” as they’re stated in the administrative templates, seems obvious that the rules should be edited for clarity.

The change would be simple:

“Required” is changed to “suggested” in the character bio template section!

All in favor?

 

[Elias Edo]

Rules change, especially those that are restrictive and designed to moderate behavior that no longer really applies to the site. From personal experience, most people don't even use 'physical' weaknesses that can be exploited anyways... they use personality/character flaws. But in either case, this isn't a tabletop RPG where characters are statted and abilities/inventories are listed. If you're scrolling through bio pages to find weaknesses to exploit, you're pretty much metagaming PvP anyway.

I can't recall the last time I used weaknesses against someone in PvP anyway, because if we're writing out a fight, I'm already in their DMs to discuss how things would work and play out. It's much more collaborative to speak with your partner, rather than read their character sheet and try to outgame their stats. It's just not played that way these days.

My takeaway, if the rule is outdated and largely oblivious to the current state of the site, it should be amended. I'd support it being edited to read 'suggested' rather than 'required.'

 

[Darth Caedes]

Yeah!

To be clear, and just to address it openly, I don't think that those in favor of the rule being enforced are voicing their opinions, as such, in order to use/preserve it as a source for metagame. I see a lot of folks assuming that the only reason to want 'weaknesses' to remain in the bio section would be for use in low-brow combat tactics, or for underhanded attempts to take advantage of someone and their character. I do not think this is the case.

Objectively, as a storywriter and aspiring professional narrative designer, I can attest to the fact that, far and beyond, flaws and character weaknesses are without a doubt the most interesting part of a character— be they hero or villain. In literature, in media, in stories of all kinds, character flaw and the ever present requirement for character development is more often than not what draws a reader in and what keeps an audience attached.

However, as we're not a publishing team, nor are we writing professionally or for the purposes of creating a book or serious story, it seems more poignant and simpler to merely remove the rule altogether.

 

[Jasper Kai'el]

I like the courtesy of strengths and weaknesses. It’s good for OOC reference to what your character may be struggling with at any given point. I also don’t think they should be held to the highest importance though. There’s always gonna be someone who’s looking through your bio to find a way to meta game and pick your character apart in a fight. There’s a way to let everyone know what it is you can do that finds a happy balance between vague and informative.

Just be polite and have fun. That’s what I think is most important anyways.

 

[Darth Caedes]

Jasper Kai'el , this is in keeping with the move to re-write "required" to "suggested."

 

[Jasper Kai'el]

Jasper Kai'el , this is in keeping with the move to re-write "required" to "suggested."

I’m aware lol. I was just giving my thoughts on the pros and cons of keeping strengths and weaknesses. ‘Twas just my thoughts on why I like keepin em.

 

[Sahan Dragr]

I see it like a D&D character sheet, where you list your personality and flaws, helping you build a character with depth. Makes for better story telling. Nobody is infallible. It just isn't strictly enforced, because it can't be enforced. And not really any reason to. Some people are unsure what to pick and want to write and let the story organically decide their character personality. Others know right from the start. And yes, some want to completely avoid weaknesses like they are perfect machines or gods. I think that is just boring and should be reserved for single-player games. That being said, there are circles here for those people as well, I'm sure.
That's my take. Strengths and weakness add to character flavor, but it's ok to not know what they are right away. We don't always know all our own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Darth Caedes]

I’m aware lol. I was just giving my thoughts on the pros and cons of keeping strengths and weaknesses. ‘Twas just my thoughts on why I like keepin em.

Pardon, I was clarifying! Wasn't sure, myself.

 

[Judah Lesan]

WelshPsych

Just for clarity the template only requires 2 weaknesses. The further issue is not everyone is making bios for their characters.

That being said, this is an issue that staff are not actively policing nor did they as far as I am aware of when you were an RPJ. Several different templates are in use as well. If anything this is something staff could discuss, and if they’re fine to just let things be as they are then that’s good enough for me.

 

[Amani Serys]

The fact that it's only now being brought up tells me that this rule is pretty much a non issue. Salt comes and goes but I think we've been pretty good about self-policing these days. If people are cheap or toxic RPers, it's pretty easy to just distance yourself from them, and if it's really bad they'll feel it from the community at large. A mandatory strengths and weaknesses tab isn’t gonna change that. It’s just a source for metagame knowledge.

If people wanna add their strengths and weaknesses then fine, great even. But making it a requirement is needlessly pedantic on a site where you don't even need your sheet approved to start RPing. Change it to "2 weaknesses suggested" if just to foster that mindset in new players, and leave it at that.

 

[Koda Fett]

It's good form to make an equal list of strengths and weaknesses, though them having any reasonable impact or worth went out the window when the lists of them resembled: I am a Force God, one of the best lightsaber users of all time, and sometimes, maybe, I become too attached to my friends.

 

[Jegy Sesara]

Honestly it can give problems to characters thay may or may not generally have. As a rule, no. We really don't need to devolve backwards.

Plus I can still say my character can't drive speeders and have a chuckle over it in threads.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

WelshPsych

Just for clarity the template only requires 2 weaknesses. The further issue is not everyone is making bios for their characters.

That being said, this is an issue that staff are not actively policing nor did they as far as I am aware of when you were an RPJ. Several different templates are in use as well. If anything this is something staff could discuss, and if they’re fine to just let things be as they are then that’s good enough for me.

This absolutely still is a rule. So if you see someone is RPing without making a bio feel free to report them. We have no way of knowing if someone has made one or not without looking for each sub account.

As for strengths and weaknesses, I see them as necessary. It can give people an insight into how the character works.

However, we don't approve bios, so if someone wants to put:
Strength: Sith master at age 16.
Weakness: Gets angry sometimes
Then that's on them. This may or may not even give you some good information about who to write with and who not to!

Whilst I foresee changes to the bio template being possible, the strengths and weaknesses are staying.

 

[Natasi Fortan]

As for strengths and weaknesses, I see them as necessary. It can give people an insight into how the character works.

For tattletale narcs, is not having the requisite number of weaknesses something to be reported?

 

[WelshPsych]

Valiens Nantaris

While I personally think strengths and weaknesses can help a writer in fleshing out a character, they can be hard to design at the beginning without a feel for how a character will be or quickly shift into new avenues of development in terms of strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't say get rid of them completely since that wouldn't work.

Just think it could be shifted more into a recommended part of the character sheet template. A template that I perceived to be similar to how the Factory and Codex templates are in that the sections of the character sheet template are highlighted as required as necessary things that should be on all character bios posted. However, that could just be my Autism mind reading too literally into things.

I am content either way, just wanted to bring the discussion up since there was a discussion already happening about this on discord and thought it would be better to have it more openly discussed here and get staff inputs.