Writer On Training Threads (and Why They Suck)

[Zole]

Jend-Ro's pilgrimage threads are a notable exception

Very true

 

[Elpsis Kerrigan]

Siobhan never did a single training thread on-screen. I just assumed the boring stuff happened off-screen, and so she went out and did stuff, got maimed, learnd a lesson, got maimed again, developed. With Elpsis, her lack of formal training was actually a plot point during her early years, because she'd run away from the Jedi at a very young age. Both grew in ability as they became more experienced. Same with Enyo, though with her some actual training was woven into the narrative (e.g. visiting a hellish planet Sio had fought a big battle on, seeing the detritus, eating ghosts).

I dislike training threads where the apprentice has to sit through endless sessions of 'lift a pebble twenty times', 'go through the basic stances of Shii-Cho' and 'listen to me explain the Force by using as many quotes from the movies, novels or games as possible to show off my cannon knowledge'. That's boring for both parties. Good thing ranks are deregulated and no one has to grind through that. It's irrelevant whether person X or Y thinks they suck or not or what they think of your methods for character progression, just whether you and the person you're writing with wants to do one and whether you can create an interesting narrative. At the end of the day, you write for yourself.

I'm more the 'throw blunt objects at them, shoot them with ion paddle beamers/sonic blasters, after giving them laconic instructions' type. Truly OHSA-compliant.

Joking aside (ok, I wasn't really joking) on the whole I don't care much for training threads. They're something I'd do if the writer of an apprentice or knight wants one. And they ought to have a narrative behind them. 'Training threads' should be about the relationship between Master and apprentice and help develop both characters not the powers or obscure traditions. This is reflected in those training threads I'd consider my favourites. Worth noting that I don't get involved with major factions outside of invasions and other PvP threads, so I do private dev, not big group training ones.

• Here, my Eldorai soldier, Kaida Taldir, plays drill sergeant for Galina (RIP Coryth, you were the best). No lifting pebbles, no blathering. Galina is integrated into the unit Kaida commands and essentially goes through boot camp, including military maneouvres/live fire drills, a duel and an then an actual battle.
• Here, here and here, Maris Fero goes through her Force awakening arc under Enyo's supervision. Mixture of her spontaneously discovering the Force while on a mission with Enyo and her gang to take over a casino, Enyo imparting her pseudo-nihilistic 'philosophy' (mostly in the context of daily events rather than sitting down and giving a lecture) and practical instruction...which involves a lot of learning by doing and sink or swim.

 

[Teyla Sal-Soren]

I myself am not huge on training threads, but that is in large part due to the RP site I originally came from, requiring at least 20+ completed training threads, per character, to advance. It was a slog, I never want to do it again.

That said, I do still try and engage in them every once in a while and have a slight method to my madness on approaching them.

Generally, I have an idea of my characters skill set (or what abilities they would lean more towards) before I start to write them, and that in itself determines private threads I create for training, and group threads I will plan to jump into in the future.

Have a goal/purpose in mind. Once your goal/purpose is fulfilled, it's time to bounce.

For example...

In group threads, I typically throw my character into the middle of the thread and will skip introductions all together (this is fluff, and I'd rather just get into it). Typically for these, I will only stick around for only 1, or maybe 2 posts, to have them work out the ability and so I as a writer will know how they approach that particular technique in the future (I also like to read others approach for the same ability and how we compare, some writers will have a completely different take). After that, I have them grow/fine tune the ability in future threads.

For private training threads, I try to keep them story-based, and use them to serve a specific purpose to the characters development.

Otherwise, I too get easily bored.

Overall, I like the ideas you presented on how to make them more interesting and engaging, good stuff. Love reading these types of discussions.

(Slight edit to try and clarify my thoughts, since I wrote the original response before coffee)

 

[Damsy Callat]

I tend to lean into "less-than-traditional" training, i.e. tied into other sorts of threads - mostly private dev 1x1s because that's how I roll. Any thread with more than two writers besides me (so, three total) tends to give me a lot of anxiety and then becomes more of an obligation to write instead of a joy - which, yes, feels about just as unfortunate to me as it may seem to you. I've always been a slow reader and writer, but "keeping up" with large - for me - threads and their posting orders has been a personal issue virtually since my first day here. I have taken a mindful step back over the last few months and tried to stop self-imposing expectations I can't sustainably uphold. I can, however, commit to 1x1s + 1 and remain perfectly sane, provided my life is cooperating (cough coughs in flexible LOA).

A hobby should be a hobby shouldn't be a job.

Anyway, end personal ramble. I just shared to show how / why I personally forego group trainings specifically. They do feel impersonal too, but for me their problem lies more in the I-can't-personally-juggle-them-very-well realm.

I haven't done solos with Damsy yet (or any of my characters, now that I think about it), but I totally would if I had the time. I think, at least theoretically, they can be not just entertaining and artistic like any non-RP short story out there, but balanced and fair from a training perspective, depending on how it's written of course. Self-training comes from personal growth, so I don't see the former as automatically unfair. It's natural to learn to do old things better and new things altogether on your own. That being said, there are some techniques that I would put outside one's knowledge progression - that is, those really advanced practices a padawan or acolyte wouldn't be able to stumble into all on their lonesomes.

I really think of thread types as roleplay sub-genres: public, first reply, faction, private, etc.; even factory and codex. Writing style may or may not be different between them, but I think the content is in nuanced ways, if not just because a writer might approach different thread types in a slightly different way. Maybe that's just me though.

Thanks for giving me an excuse to finally put these thoughts to virtual paper, Jacen Nimdok

 

[Darth Empyrean]

That's not really a dig at these factions, it's just what I've seen), and a regular writer in SE

As one of the factions that posts egregious training threads for activity checks, making ends meet, and because we're new - I'll throw my two cents in.

My only real issue with the critique you've given is that it reads more like a slam piece on the thread 'type' rather than the tendencies seen on the site. I can't argue from the position that no training thread ends up like you've described or others have, as that seems to be the case for 90% of them - but there are most certainly ways to do these threads without them being boring. Afterall, if there were boring training threads, people just wouldn't reply to them - be it the master, or the students within.

While I certainly hope it isn't your opinion SE is doing training threads is to pay our activity check bills, I'll make a quick note on the 'why' just incase this is something you heard from others or what not. In the various interest checks we have done, training threads have been one of the most requested threads our faction has had - partially lending to the fact that we have a very high number of acolytes/apprentices as opposed to Lords or Knights; so for better or worse, much of our narrative is to cater to our character base.

As far as the 'boring' nature of training threads, I can't argue that they're not often failures of threads - but to be fair, more than half the threads on Chaos die before they hit 20 posts anyway. While many factions have tried training threads that fizzled out rather quickly, SE has had some great ones that pushed past 100 posts give or take a few. Threads like Trial of Sand, or the TENANTS of the Lightsaber - both of which were met with very good interest.

I think what can be learned from successful training threads where interest was kept and people had fun in, is that the group training threads can work wonderfully - but are often pulled down by the emphasis on everyone learning directly from the same person at the same time. As you said yourself, the most fun learning is when you have that one on one connection - but with the disparity between masters willing to teach and stick with it, and the abundance of acolytes/padawans wanting that relationship it is very hard to come by.

Writers often make that mistake, I think, of trying to put themselves into that very personal setting with a large amount of apprentices at once in the same thread - following old trends of getting them trained up as fast as possible so they had Knights in the invasion threads (which doesn't mean much now, just noting the historic reason for these threads). Now, without the incentive of promotions on the table, people go for story rich training but lose interest as they either don't get the response they are hoping for, or otherwise can't get the master to apprentice relationship they specifically want out of it.

I've found personally that the training threads that have worked best are the ones where you pair off writers with each other who don't normally write with one another and have similar posting schedules. Pairing acolytes with others in a 'supervised' thread can help encourage writing with people you might not normally do - and has seen that return in our own training threads. Having some master narration over what people are doing, small responses to minor happenings in the thread, etc, makes for a lively thread that can be remembered for good reason.

So, in summary - training threads are approached poorly more often than not, abandoned for a thousand different reasons, and can often come off boring because it lacks personal connection people enjoy instead coming off like a factory line trying to print out a Knighthood Certificate. Making training threads that help build acolytes stories in more ways than just 'muh power gain' can see great returns in these threads one might not normally see.

It's all in how you approach it, I think.

EDIT: I'm sorry for the wall of text. I didn't start this comment off thinking it would be an essay.

 

[Jsc]

Sometimes you read a Nimdok piece and go "This gal really thought this through. I'm glad somebody had the balls to say it out loud. Nice."

Other times you go "Oh god. This gal stayed up way too late last night and is clearly sithposting now. Bleh."

This guide reads like the later.

 

[Blade Ice]

You want to know what made me hate training threads the fact I had seven masters (for this character), some didn't like me ooc, some didn't like my character IC (demanding I change the character for them), and others disappeared. I had hundreds of training threads very few ever got fully finished cause one side or the other got bored of them. Then there was the fact that back in the day there was a monopoly on master only select people got mastered and other never did for board politics.

I was kept in the lower ranks for eleven years until I moved to another board where the asked me why the hell I wasn't mastered yet with this here character Blade Ice. Yet I loathed Training threads after that point but not the master and apprentice relationship.

Though I do, do training threads on occasion now days when I have an apprentice with one of my many characters I much prefer building the master and apprentice relationship through dominions, invasions or other not strictly training threads. I find it more organic, call it on the job training.

As for the clout thing to train, I'm so use to starting over with rep at this point I hardly let that stand in my way. I just ussually luck out that a few people know me from other places and don't totally hate my guts enough to vouch for me. lol