Suggestion Mandate: Insurrection Campaign

[Adhira Chandra]

I will, however, be using them as an example due to their unique status of being the first to create the situation I find disagreeable under the new rule set.

Cassus Akovin Hailyn Darro Praji

Okay, so, the people tagging me here need to absolutely chill. I'm not into giving attention to people who only tag people to briefly disagree with them. Completely unnecessary and also weird. I don't respond to contrarianism.

But I will say that, as I quoted, the original suggestion used the GA as an example. You say it explicitly. You then go on to advocate for a mandate that counteracts what we are currently doing. So, I disagree that what I have said is somehow off-topic. I disagree with the spirit and the substance of what you said. I explained why: because I think you are advocating for a guardrail. Ie. Nullifying a mandate that you specifically think is not fair.. or however, you want to frame it. If you dont want the response of an FO, don't use their faction as an "example" for why your idea is a good one.

I went on to explain that there are alternatives to the idea that there needs to be a counter-mandate. That is the extent of what I contributed and I think it is enough. I apologize if anyone else thinks it isnt but my additional reply was in response to someone else who made points I responded to.

And, to be clear, anyone who thinks it may be productive to tag me: I am not responding to this thread further. <3

 

[Darro Praji]

ok I still say yes tho

 

[Ryv]

I haven't followed this thread after my initial post, so I dunno if this point has already been brought up, but I think the fact it took four different factions' involvement in the current situation to make a large scale cloud break like this possible, with the use of this mandate, should say something about the situation overall.

In order for the cloud break to happen:

1. GA had to win Korriban and Felucia, which we did.
2. NIO had to win Helgard and Cadomai, which they did.
3. GA has to win Ziost and Tiss'sharl, pending results.
4. LotS had to spawn in and take the hexes TSE could re-dom in order to keep their territory from cracking in half.
5. Brotherhood of the Maw had to take relentless horde to stop the capital change.

This isn't some quick one-two punch like the campaigns from October to cut their territory in half. It requires three different victories, back to back, someone taking the territory, and the use of a mandate that impacts everyone on the board equally.

You don't like my NIO example from earlier? That's fine. Hit other factions. No one is stopping anyone from using the mandate to its fullest potential. Since everyone, including the person who took it can't move their capital, it means anyone can be cut down to size if people play the game. So, just play the game. Write the invasions, come up with killer narratives, and do the diplomacy RP.

Elder Council almost created an alliance that could rival NIO & GA. CIS & TSE already have something going on. Look to other folks, WotS, LotS, BotM, MU, whatever. Break down the IC barriers keeping your factions from working together, make some alliances, and start invading. If you don't wanna write invasions and make use of the mandates, then don't be upset other people not opting out of them are going to use them against you or your friends. It doesn't take a genius to determine an optimal play on invasion targets. Just takes a pair of eyes, a mind for narrative, and a willingness to play the game.

EDIT: My point here is it seems like people are POTENTIALLY overlooking the fact it took months of writing by multiple groups for TSE to wind up in this position. At any point, before BotM went major, the TSE FO could have tried to move their capital. The writing was on the wall. We were shooting for the cloud break. The moment Korriban & Felucia went neutral you could've made the capital move.

 

[Hailyn]

At risk of sounding like a broken record, every post I've made has been that the mandate is not the source of people's ire. The only reason I've even been replying is because my original post was taken as a complaint against the mandate despite my very blatant (and stated) defense of it.

 

[Tefka]

1. GA had to win Korriban and Felucia, which we did.
2. NIO had to win Helgard and Cadomai, which they did.
3. GA has to win Ziost and Tiss'sharl, pending results.
4. LotS had to spawn in and take the hexes TSE could re-dom in order to keep their territory from cracking in half.
5. Brotherhood of the Maw had to take relentless horde to stop the capital change.

Back in my day we just kept invading and bullying people OOC because we were real men.

 

[Enlil]

Back in my day we just kept invading and bullying people OOC because we were real men.

#MakePvPMatterAgain

 

[Jsc]

when you still waiting for something about this thread to matter​

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

Yeah that's great and all but, how did Shelob pierce Frodo's mithril vest?

 

[Bo Nadea]

If you dont want the response of an FO, don't use their faction as an "example" for why your idea is a good one.

You then go on to advocate for a mandate that counteracts what we are currently doing.

If you don't wish for the faction to be used as an example don't be on the map. At the most, anyone who might have taken personal offense to being mentioned would be Brotherhood, but I see no one from their staff typing up apologetics for their mandate choice. I wouldn't want to see it, either, because they are perfectly free to do what they please.

No one is after GA/NIO/BotM/WotS. No one is trying to delete the map game nor critique past choices. The map and its rules are not, nor ever will be, set in stone. It is as amorphous as the clouds on its field. It is in a constant state of playtesting. Ideas will emerge, loopholes found, suggestions made. Cassus Akovin is just a user who observed a mandate on the map, had an idea, suggested a mandate for the map. If having individuals suggest a mandate which won't even affect the faction which took it (come on, why are people thinking mechanic changes are instantaneous?) and is not even affiliated with or interacting with yours IC makes ya defensive, then I dunno what else to say. Nothing, I suppose.

-stuff-

Again, more apologetics. This suggestion spawned from an observation of the now. If you think this will affect the current events you are most likely very mistaken. Do not get so defensive over this, it's seriously not worth it.

• I've presented the idea of a Mandate that allows a faction to utilize an invasion to nullify another factions Mandate provided they are victorious, and in place of taking territory.
• In what way is this a "guard rail" when it requires a faction to exchange its Mandate for this one, and a victorious invasion (without territory gain) in order to take effect?

Since this mandate affects all mandates equally and has such a hefty price + risk, I don't see how it would be the biased guard rail folks seem to take it as. It's merely another faction control mandate, much like Relentless Horde, and if anything has more drawback than reward. You nullify zero hexes, you gain zero hexes, and only on a victory is the defending faction's mandate taken away. I don't understand people's problems with this mandate haha.

 

[Tefka]

I don't understand people's problems with this mandate haha.

I don’t understand people still debating it after I said it’s not happening haha

But here we are.

 

[Cassus Akovin]

I acknowledge you aren't interested now, but I am still interested in the discussion.

Apologies, it’s not my intent to shut down conversations. I do want us to keep realistic expectations, though - these things take weeks, possibly months of watching how things develop. My overall serious stance is, Chaos will either complain about things are getting stale - or we’ll complain about new features. I’d rather the latter, and meter the amount of complaints.

I’m just a simple meme farmer, trying to make his way in the Suggestion forum.

I mean, this is why.

I keep on trying to have a conversation, you don't stop us, ergo, people talk. If they weren't interested on some level, they wouldn't respond.

Bo Nadea I've already sung your praises in private, but I really appreciate your reiteration of what I came here for.

I already admit defeat in acknowledging it was a mistake to give any greater context to my suggestion beyond "I think this aught to be a Mandate", as it's clear to me that many of the detractors to the idea are missing the forest for the trees, and are explicitly (according to their own words) not reading the wider conversation. Thus, their arguments are largely missing the points that have been made by the other writers here, unrelated to the background context I provided.

I also have no idea how many of my disclaimers have gone completely unheeded lol

From the initial sentence of my post acknowledging site staff is explicitly not interested right now, to my disclaimer that I am completely neutral in the provided example considering that I am 1) Not involved with any of the factions mentioned, and 2) Not against them in anyway. Which is not even to mention the number of posts I have provided explicitly seeking clarification without completely refuting what's been said.

I just got memed to death because some felt targeted, somehow, while ignoring the actual substance of what's being suggested, or conflating it to a personal attack to their faction despite the multitude of reasons to the contrary.

I don't mind disagreement or dissenting opinions, because those are natural to a discussion. The only times I have ever responded to someone in this thread is to seek further clarification of their views because I didn't understand them, or to clarify my own because I felt they didn't understand my own. I am still open to conversation, but it's likely the thread has run its course. If nothing else will be said, I'd like to take a moment to thank the following individuals for seriously humoring me in a discussion, either in support or against, I enjoyed your contributions:

• Jorik Valnora
• Gerwald Lechner
• AMCO
• Tefka
• Hailyn
• Annasari
• Thaelius
• Bo Nadea

You don't have to humor me any more if you'd rather not witness any other bad memes.

 

[Tefka]

In your defense, my memes are unbiased unless you talk about your faction 20+ times in the thread.

I also think there's some reverse psychology that goes down every time I say something's not going to happen in this suggestion threads, like some members take that as a challenge "WELL THIS TIME, IT WILL."

Or they've literally forgotten that to make any rule change, they need either myself or Valiens onboard, and even then it's not guaranteed because we have to convince the other Admins. Most who are pretty conservative in their approaches to rule changes/additions.

Edit: The entire forum could come to a consensus that X rule needs to be implemented, but if you don't have an Admin onboard, it's a useless endeavor.