Looking for advice

[Camellia Swift]

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/38401-stealth-frigate/?p=557467

Alright I'm going to ask if anyone else has an opinion on this. Especially regarding Captain Larrq's attempt to do a lot of the work for Ice in the second to last post.

I think the submission is incredibly OP and should basically be denied. But if Ice was willing to put in the near 100 posts in dev threads for this with the other requests I made I was willing to give him a bit of leeway with a personal ship that likely won't see much use in invasions and actual battles.

 

[Noah Corek]

[member="Camellia Swift"]
Personally to me, I don't care how many posts it has, this is a extremely OP ship, but since I'm tech, I don't really have a clue.

 

[Darth Avida]

You cannot use 2 lightsaber resistant tech on 1 submission
[member="Camellia Swift"]
[member="Noah Corek"]

 

[Darth Avida]

Also, I'm pretty sure the rule is 20 max on the guns, right? (It's been a while since I checked last).
[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Noah Corek"]

It is extremely OP, but like Larrq pointed out and I've been considering it is a personal ship though that likely won't see use in any fleeting, and hopefully won't appear in events or big multi site plots.

Which is why I want very extensive dev threads for it at the very least.

I mainly now want to know if even if he removes what I ask should I allow it because Larrq is trying to give him the material.

[member="Silara Vantai"]

I know, but its a ship, you're not using a lightsaber on the outer hull anyway.

The max is a 20 Rating. He's still allowed to list his guns which can be more than 20. I've asked him to reduce his total anyway as its an assault class ship and thus far too powerful to have a hanger. Considering its also a super stealth ship I'd rather it was weakly armed altogether without a hanger anyway.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

It will, in fact, be used in invasions. His main character made extensive use of a canon ship of similar design in the invasion of Naboo, and so it is easy to reason that in the future this submission will be used in a similar manner.

 

[Darth Avida]

Let me just post a full list of the math done for this, because this seems pretty crazy.

390 meters (Sq. meters?) of a hangar bay area,
103 guns (32 capitol, 71 other)
Anti-sensor cloaking,
Cloaking device,
Sensor jammar (Which actually defeats the purpose of the sensor cloaking),
Ultrachrome (Which disables all blaster & saber-type stuff, rendering them un-damaged, as in immune),
Beskar(Basically renders physical/concussive force null),
Anti-Concussion (Renders it's only weakness null),
71 of the 103 guns have full-turning stuff, making their BS attempt to hide that issue as null,
"1000 droids" kept in storage, with 900 on hand,
Capable of several hundred m tons of weight in cargo extra via tractor beams,
etc.

Also, it doesn't matter. Those two are unable to be combined, it's literally been stated by Spencer several times to him and others.

Also:

IV. Completing restricted item objectives may count as development threads for the submissions using the restricted item. Each completed objective usually only counts for one submission.

So he would need several dev threads, one for each restricted item. So 3 in total if you're counting the cloaking, beskar (which needs to be obtained through a thread, it cannot be "gifted" by association with Mandal, as he is not a Mandalorian, Larraq is), and one for ultrachrome (which requires an objective for it). Then you should tack on another 30-50 posts for a creation/prototype or something in order to actually molecularly bond the materials, and then there's the matter of 103 guns and 32 capitol guns.

[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

I actually asked him about those problems and made these requests if you didn't see. And I already made the reconquest he not combine the material. I made quite an extensive post about things if you saw. And then clearly laid out in bullets what he needed to do.

• Dev Thread of Beskar purchase (10-20 Posts)
• Dev thread of Stygium Purchase if approved by admin(10-20 Posts)
• Dev Thread with you for construction (30-40 Posts)
• Remove Hanger
• Remove Gavitic Modulator, Crystal Gravfield Trap, and Nightshadow (he can keep the Thrust Dampening or Sensor Jamming but must choose or the other)
• Remove Anti-Concussion Field
• Adjust speed and maneuverability to 9
• Bring Capital Guns to 20, Remove Missiles, Defense Guns to 20
• Also remove the 2000 spare droids

He does at least have a dev thread for the ultrachrome though its still in progress and I will wait until its finished to judge it.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

I actually asked him about those problems and made these requests if you didn't see. And I already made the reconquest he not combine the material. I made quite an extensive post about things if you saw. And then clearly laid out in bullets what he needed to do.

• Dev Thread of Beskar purchase (10-20 Posts)
• Dev thread of Stygium Purchase if approved by admin(10-20 Posts)
• Dev Thread with you for construction (30-40 Posts)
• Remove Hanger
• Remove Gavitic Modulator, Crystal Gravfield Trap, and Nightshadow (he can keep the Thrust Dampening or Sensor Jamming but must choose or the other)
• Remove Anti-Concussion Field
• Adjust speed and maneuverability to 9
• Bring Capital Guns to 20, Remove Missiles, Defense Guns to 20
• Also remove the 2000 spare droids

He does at least have a dev thread for the ultrachrome though its still in progress and I will wait until its finished to judge it.

He tried to get me to approve an ion cannon that instantly shut down any ship below [x] size. (Possibly cruiser, I don't recall). When that was denied, he told me via skype he was going to load in 10 ion cannons to make up for it, and that he [sic] "wasn't going to use any lethal weapons on the ship and should just approve of it for self-defense."

Looking at this, I am glad I didn't let any amount of what he was asking for slide.
[member="Camellia Swift"]

 

[Darth Avida]

Also, [member="Camellia Swift"]
Read the first response to that ship:

I would change the material its created from, the Beskar makes it ultra heavy. Also when you mix the ultrachrome and the beskar together they lose their property.

Also you're not allowed to mix two saber resistant materials - its pointless.




Cool picture by the way.

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

He just PMed me and tried to act as if I had no idea about spacial issues and that just because no one knows if Beskar and Ultrachrome can't be mixed in canon (along with the other tech combinations he had) is no reason for me to deny them. I am beginning to regret trying to work it out with him.

. . . .and again, I just pointed out in my last post that I said I took the Beskar and Ultrachrome into account. I asked him to make the Beskar the frame and the Chrome the hull, thus they are not mixed and don't actually double any effect of durability.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

He just PMed me and tried to act as if I had no idea about spacial issues and that just because no one knows if Beskar and Ultrachrome can't be mixed in canon (along with the other tech combinations he had) is no reason for me to deny them. I am beginning to regret trying to work it out with him.

. . . .and again, I just pointed out in my last post that I said I took the Beskar and Ultrachrome into account. I asked him to make the Beskar the frame and the Chrome the hull, thus they are not mixed and don't actually double any effect of durability.

They can't be used in the same submission, period, it's in the rules (I forget which one, but I recall Tefka making specific notes on that). Just as armor and large weapons (even vehicles) cannot have one part be ultrachrome, and the other be cortosis (for example), a ship cannot either. It requires a new submission for each piece.

Anyways, he said the same thing to me about the Ion cannon. I have a super-long skype log of insults and harassment about how uneducated we (as judges) and the administration are on SW logic and tech.

Edit: I was sent a friend request on our [old] faction skype chat due to a thread we had done together, originally, for our faction we were in, which I can conclude I never want to be associated with due to how they treated myself and a few others on a personal basis.

 

[Danger Arceneau]

Go with your gut instinct [member="Camellia Swift"].

If you feel it is OP, then do that. Remember we have our dev thread guidelines, but if you feel that it even goes beyond the dev thread -- deny it.

Don't let Waid pressure you into anything, he isn't supposed to do that.

Also he -shouldn't- be contacting you over Skype over these submissions. This has to be done on the board in the tech sub as you work things out.

No factory judge should be harassed at all, and if they are bring it up to [member="Spencer Jacobs"] and @Tefka.

Do not take any kind of browbeating by him because he wants to get his way. He has to be respectful of your requests, or if he continues to harass, we can get him banned from the factory for doing so.

Harassment of the Judges is something we do not tolerate at all.

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Danger Arceneau"]

It was an on site PM, I added Spencer to it, I could add anyone else if they'd like to see it.

[member="Silara Vantai"]

If that is actually a rule I'll lay it out then, but personally making the Frame Beskar is flavoring and actually adds little but structural integrity, which does nothing for his hull or combat ability.

Its a bit of a false presentation for him. He won't get any benefit out of it aside from his ship being able to limp away with holes in it if someone breaks the hull.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Camellia Swift"]
I believe Cira was referring to what I mentioned before.

[member="Danger Arceneau"]
I asked him multiple times to post what he wanted to say on the board, and after a while he'd say "k" but then continue on ranting about my decision. (Such as the post I made requesting edits and development threads, which he would not post anything on the board until I asked him to @Mention [member="Spencer Jacobs"], then he went and posted a "I was told this would not be approved no matter what I did"-ish post in the denied sub.)

Anyways, my stuff is off-topic for this thread, let's talk about the frigate - which is incredibly over-powered.

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Silara Vantai"] [member="Danger Arceneau"]

I am doing one last post then if they keep arguing leave it and let it be handled after an Admin review.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Camellia Swift"]
Please note that we also do not count the combined posts of X, Y, and Z as post counts. It is the individual post counts that we look at, so 8 posts in 1, 100 posts in another, and 12 in another, for a total 120 is not the same as fulfilling a request for 30 in one, 30 in another, and 10-15 in another. That isn't how it works. (I am saying this because I'm reading Larraq's posts.)

 

[Camellia Swift]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

I know, nor was the OS 192 posts in one thread either I think.

I just want to be able to help this person out and explain the proper balance and value of effort for a powerful submission within reason.

 

[Darth Avida]

[member="Silara Vantai"]

I know, nor was the OS 192 posts in one thread either I think.

I just want to be able to help this person out and explain the proper balance and value of effort for a powerful submission within reason.

I want him to understand too, I've tried to explain it. It just seems like he's thinking of a grand role for this ship to take place in, but because we can't imagine it with him he feels we don't understand, but then doesn't want to fully explain it to us, nor does it really matter as he could change his mind at any point.

I explained the issues with this in their pre-factory thread and stated multiple times that they would need at least 3 development threads of a gratuitous amount, and explained the issues with what was wrong, and even spent an hour and a half talking about the technology of it so he would understand, but he either doesn't get it, or doesn't care about that, and sees the issues as being a case issue of he wants to use it for x, we think it is for y, and he thinks that because he wants it for x and not y it should be approved, because he believes it is y that is the issue, and not the subject of the ship itself.

Basically, I think he's caught up in the scenarios we're trying to use and doesn't seem to grasp the power of the tech itself.

 

[Allyson Locke]

[member="Noah Corek"] lol you're everywhere there's no set locations you can bounce around to any of the factory forums.

[member="Camellia Swift"] Waid likes to stiff arm people into thinking he's right. If he continues to harass the FJs please let me know and I'll handle him. You guys don't deserve to be harassed when you're just doing your VOLUNTEERED job. You guys are doing great work and I'm extremely proud of all of you. Except [member="Danger Arceneau"] her boobs are too big and lacking peanut butter cups.