Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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[Guide] How to write a Sith - Part 6 (Conversion)

Becoming a Sith when you start out as a Force User of a different faction is not simply a matter of exchanging tan robes for black ones and swapping out your name for something a little edgier: there seems to be a huge misconception floating around on this, mostly because the movies served to show but a tiny fraction of one person's conversion under remarkable circumstances. Surely to become a Sith merely means that you have sworn your allegiance, cast off your moral restraints and simply let yourself feel something (or admit to it, at any rate!)? Perhaps all you need is someone (yourself, more than likely) to give you a 'Darth' name?

Nope, definitely not.

The first thing we need to note is this: a Jedi that has fallen from the Jedi ways is not a Sith by default. Wearing black robes and acting whimsically or psychopathically does not make you Sith - oftentimes, quite the opposite. A Jedi in such a position is a Dark Jedi at best, a fallen Rogue Jedi at worst, someone that has rejected one set of teachings to go their own way. To become a Sith thereafter, they must do far more than this. I did say mention all other Force Users, but the Jedi-to-Sith conversion is the most common cliche, so that's the one I'll focus on.

Sith are all agents of the Dark Side, first and foremost. The most sociopathic and the most rational, the ambitious, the destructive, the malicious, the gluttonous: all must submit to the Dark Side. A Jedi might slide towards the Dark Side, but they are more often than not being manipulated by it, being drawn in as fodder, their emotions played upon and influenced so that their inner darkness might feed the greater one. These are victims of the Dark Side, beings that will slowly be consumed by it, and not of their own free will.

Moving back to Sith, these are beings that recognise the darkness, and choose to embrace it, for whatever reasons or motives they might choose. The darkness feeds on them, but it's a symbiotic relationship: they draw power from the darkness, accept the agonies of it for themselves, knowing that they are strengthened by it even as they are diminished by it. They are not entirely servants of the Dark Side, nor is it entirely at their service: it is a give-and-take relationship, a constant struggle between the two that a Sith accepts as a means to achieve their ends. It's a very Faustian bargain, ultimately: everything they are in exchange for the power to realise their dreams and ideals.

Conversion to the Sith path isn't a delicate switch, nor a fun experience - it's designed to be emotionally traumatic, physically jarring (if not outright deadly), a complete shock to the system. One Jedi in a thousand might make a successful Sith, because Jedi oftentimes reject the feelings and pain that Jedi push aside in their quest for objectivity. A Sith cannot afford this: they must embrace their feelings, must embrace pain, must be willing to let the Dark Side swallow them whole, and that's a very dangerous path that you don't always walk away from.

Even the strongest of Jedi Masters remains a neophyte when it comes to the Sith path: the Jedi uses the Light Side as the source of their powers, and must engage in serene focus, pushing aside their ego and becoming a vessel for the energies of the Force. A Sith cannot do this: they must allow themselves to revel in the feelings that are part of them, offer them up to the darkness in exchange for the strength they draw upon. Thus, any Jedi converting to the Sith path will effectively start out as a complete novice, much as a new Acolyte without training might. They may understand the techniques they have been taught (so they would know how to channel energy to levitate an object, for example), but they have zero understanding of how to tap into the Dark Side, and so would be effectively useless at it until they have been trained.

Much of a convert's training requires unlearning: they must see the flaws in their past training, be brought to an understanding of the weaknesses inherent in this, and the damage it has done to them. Such a thing will hurt, of course, and there should ever be resistance: imagine being told everything you believed was wrong, and that you must try a different (perhaps even wholly contrary) approach. All your principles, reservations, moral codes, psychological methodology...all of it must be challenged.

The bit that's difficult, of course, is actually truly becoming Dark: Jedi in particular have a tendency of seeking to avoid pain, by suppression techniques or by detaching themselves from the sources of it. Friends and family are often concepts avoided: Sith must open themselves up to these things. Pain must be felt, experienced and endured, not simply shoved to one side. The training for a convert remains similar to that of any ordinary Acolyte: they must be pushed, subjected to horror and agony, forced to embrace it and press on regardless.

The TL;DR version is fairly straightforward: you might be a Jedi Master, but you're less than a neophyte among the Sith until broken down into tiny little pieces. You don't go from Jedi Master to Sith Lord: you go from Jedi Master to Sith Acolyte. You'll be challenged, pushed, prodded, forced to declare your allegiance to your enemy and made to destroy everything they foolishly made you live by. You are nothing, but you have the potential to become something.

Or you might become nothing at all. That's ever an alternative.

Edited Notation (01/04/2017):

Also wanted to add, after having some conversations with [member="Satia"] that there's another pretty obvious reason you'd not go from Jedi Master straight to Sith Lord (or vice versa) following a conversion:

Conversions require that you turn your back on your own people and the principles that previously guided you, essentially turning you into a traitor. A Jedi becoming Sith has walked away from their objectivity-focused, morally self-righteous, humility-espousing philosophy, to essentially turn to the Dark Side, becoming a very different individual (eventually). Ask yourself, traitor, why we should trust you? Ask yourself why we would offer you power and responsibility, knowing that your service to the Sith is self-serving, and does not stem from true belief? Ask ourselves why we would allow you to walk the path of the Sith Lords, knowing your changeable, unstable, treacherous nature.

Let's be honest: a conversion would almost bar you from the upper levels of the Sith hierarchy: you can't be trusted. You may sound zealous, may wish to slay Jedi by the thousands, and claim a hatred of democracy, peace etc, but realistically, you don't serve the Sith or their Empire: you serve your own interests. You walked away for selfish reasons, and such will dictate your actions from that point forward. And your treachery serves as a foundation for what is to come: you have betrayed your Jedi family, so you will, in time, betray us also. But we're watching you...

OOCly, see yourself treated with suspicion and scorn. It's a good platform for the emotional breaking, to be something of an outcast, to be known as treacherous, a turncoat from the Light, one who has come late to the Dark. You shouldn't expect, ICly, to be welcomed: you might be treated with derision, antipathy, perhaps with a little sympathy (you were blind, but now you can see, and how terrifying that must be for you!). The road to becoming a Sith will be long and difficult, dangerous certainly, and you may never fully gain the trust of those above you, nor that of your peers. The work needed to prove yourself will be considerable, but the rewards may be worth it in time...

Reflect on that, Oh Treacherous One...
 

Klesta

The King of Ergonomic Assessments
Part of the misconception (as far as Chaos is concerned) of a Jedi Master converting directly into a Sith Lord is, in part, due to the fact that here, on Chaos, Masters stay Masters regardless of how the conversion process occurs, and the resulting rank title changes that arise from a conversion.

You'd then have an Acolyte with the level of power in the Force of a full-fledged Sith Lord.
 
[member="Klesta"]

And therein lies the problem: no, you wouldn't. Jedi and Sith use the Force in very different ways: the Jedi depend upon a serene, objective state of mind, empty of ego and selfishness, drawing upon the Force in a passive manner, wherein they allow themselves to become a conduit for that energy. Sith draw upon the Force using their passions to fuel it, drawing the Dark Side by tapping into their feelings and gathering the energy that way.

A Jedi Master converting to a Sith might have knowledge of technique (having learned and practised this over years), but their ability to draw upon the Force as a Sith would be minimal: they'd be an Acolyte in power levels as well as in practice, because they depend upon Jedi methodology to touch the Force. Switching over to the Dark Side, they'd have to relearn and become accustomed to a completely different method, and that would take years to achieve. So, a Master becomes an Acolyte.

A Master-level character on Chaos remains a Master in terms of their standing, but ICly, they would not be considered a Master in their new faction (as if you'd ever imagine a recently-turned Master being given the trust, authority and standing of a Sith Lord that has dedicated decades to the the dark path), nor would they be a Master in terms of their power and capabilities.

Sadly, as you say, the limitation is built into the system. But that shouldn't stop people trying to RP it properly.
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
[member="Tirdarius"]

As a guy who writes only Jedi it is nice to see somebody who can actually categorize and demonstrate real Sith principles apart from just the typical power fantasy of teenage dreaming. Somebody who has read the doctrine and applied it to real life, human nature, and intergalactic government. Rather than just how to get a bigger ego, a bigger sword, and more POWA.

That said. Let's not pretend here for a moment that George Lucas or Disney get a free pass to the ownership of truth and righteousness as it applies to our own common sense as writers. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Jedi are morons and that the Sith are just monologueing "bad guys". Star Wars is a bedtime story and a childish one at that.

So T-money. Let's be real. As you continue your quest and guidelines to actually educate "real Sith" about how to behave and experience the Darkside as something more than teenage dreamers and grade-school bullies? Yeah. Let's not forget that most of this nonsense comes from the mind and inglorious imaginations of dorks, morons, dreamers, nerds, edgelords, pontifs, con men, and sexual deviants.

Sith? Darkside? Jedi? Lightside?

Meh...

Ancient-Aliens.jpg


It's a gimme. :p
 
[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

You're absolutely right there, but even that being so, it's not my way as a writer just to let the absurdities of Lucas' dichotomy slide without some response. We have a ton of Jedi and Sith writers on the board, and it's easy to get caught up in the Good vs Bad approach that Lucas started out with. You and I both know that real life is more complex than that: there are rarely ever truly unselfish 'good guys', and the 'bad guys' are never pure evil, but have some form of agenda. So, yes, I try and find some rationale, make this something that can be RPed out over the long term :p Been with this character for 11 years, so fair to say I've got a case to argue!

Oddly enough, I hardly believed anything Lucas said on the topic - the better portrayals out there came from the minds of better writers: James Luceno, Matt Stover, Timothy Zahn, and a few others. They did a great job of trying to make Lucas' 2D into something more expansive, and I feel we should all follow in that tradition with our writing. Hence the guides!

[member="Darth Voracitos"]

I was definitely thinking about you when I wrote that part :p
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
Tirdarius said:
They did a great job of trying to make Lucas' 2D into something more expansive, and I feel we should all follow in that tradition with our writing.
QFT. Keep up the awesome work! Love em'. :D
 
Just using this to give you props for the 3 million great guides you have written. They should be pretty much a mandatory read for anyone trying to play sith on chaos.

So yeah always a pleasure reading one of these, even considering that we have some philosophical differences when it comes to the sith ideology.

[member="Tirdarius"]
 

Klesta

The King of Ergonomic Assessments
[member="Tirdarius"] No more than a Sith Lord turned to the light would be considered a Jedi Master in a faction that fields Jedi.

The level of power of a Force-user is not the same as the skill in a particular side of the Force: high-powered practitioners of one side that turn to the other would at best be "high-power, low-skill" Force-users once the conversion is complete. But if they were skilled with a lightsaber, one would expect their lightsaber skill to remain intact.

I understand that it is easy to improperly play these sorts of things, but it seems to be faster with lightsaber-heavy FUs that never made that much use of the Force.

[member="Thurion Heavenshield"] I do remember that Tird once said that, when asked about the Jedi side of things, he said that he found Jedi philosophy a lot more complex and blurry than Sith philosophy was, rendering the resulting guides much more complex. Plus he would realize that there are two prequel-era rules that are commonly violated by players: no-attachment, no-possession rules. Chaos Jedi seem to be closer to the Legacy-era Jedi.
 
[member="Thurion Heavenshield"]

Perhaps that should be my next set, huh?

Jedi philosophy isn't necessarily complex - in many instances, it's quite the opposite. The problem with it is that it's fairly well understood (to an extent), so writing a guide might potentially be unnecessary. Also, the 'prequel-era rules' are idiocy, and a consequence of Lucas' misunderstanding of basic Buddhist philosophy (which is where he drew the idea of detachment from - bearing in mind that his approach is actually non-attachment!).

Also, just for reference, [member="Klesta"], you're wrong about the high-powered, low-skilled. It's actually quite the opposite: they are skilled with their knowledge of the Force, but their power levels would be lower because they're using an entirely different power source than before. Their bodies would be unaccustomed to it, their minds would lack the discipline required (since Sith and Jedi both apply mental discipline very differently), and they would have to reverse their existent training to develop it along the newer lines. It'd be easier to teach a complete neophyte to the ways of the Force how to use the Dark Side than it would be to teach a Jedi Master this: there's less unlearning to do!
 
Tirdarius said:
Also, just for reference, [member="Klesta"], you're wrong about the high-powered, low-skilled. It's actually quite the opposite: they are skilled with their knowledge of the Force, but their power levels would be lower because they're using an entirely different power source than before. Their bodies would be unaccustomed to it, their minds would lack the discipline required (since Sith and Jedi both apply mental discipline very differently), and they would have to reverse their existent training to develop it along the newer lines. It'd be easier to teach a complete neophyte to the ways of the Force how to use the Dark Side than it would be to teach a Jedi Master this: there's less unlearning to do!
So out of curiosity, how would you justify Anakin/Vader being able to slaughter countless Jedi and go toe to toe with Obi-Wan after his immediate turn to the dark?

I really enjoy reading all these guides you put up so I'd like your thoughts on the matter :)
 
Samka Derith said:
So out of curiosity, how would you justify Anakin/Vader being able to slaughter countless Jedi and go toe to toe with Obi-Wan after his immediate turn to the dark?
Anakin was described as being second only to Mace Windu in terms of Lightsaber skill among his contemporaries, which makes him among the best Jedi ever to swing a lightstick. Kenobi's style, by contrast, was created to outlast an offensive opponent. That knowledge remained in place despite his shift in alignment, which made them about evenly matched physically.

In terms of the Force, just being able to do things like Telekinesis and Mental manipulation, the skillsets are the same on both sides of the spectrum. Basic training would still be relevant. It's the degree that changes, for instance, overt control over a sentient mind (dark) would be impossible for someone without skill and/or training in the light, and the ability to slow down or stop bodily functions without harming an individual (Morichro/light) would be difficult for someone without extreme focus and the will to do no harm.

You wouldn't go from being a Master of the Light and having a heart for service and protection of the people to a Sith Lord, able to disassociate and even slaughter hundreds of people without batting an eye. That's my take on it.
 

Jsc

Disney's Princess
[member="Alkor Centaris"] [member="Samka Derith"]

That's a good take to have. Skywalker was the single strongest warrior in the galaxy for almost all of the Clone Wars. His lifelong adventure of turning to the Dark didn't change that skill set. He didn't suddenly learn Force Lightning. He didn't suddenly have a taste for Form II swordfighting. He already knew how to choke people and mind-trick them as a Jedi. And slaughtering millions of people was pretty much already his daily routine at that point anyway. Heck, even his wardrobe remained black and he killed them younglings with a blue colored lightstick.

Oh man, yeah. With George Lucas as a writer. Sheesh. Skywalker had been pulling from the Dark his entire life. Fear, hate, anger, suffering are that kid's bread and butter. Don't be a dick, was a rule he broke every morning before breakfast. Yoda saw that in him at like, 12 years old. In fact. If Kenobi hadn't been such a moron he might have noticed the 1,000,000,000 red flags that Skywalker was throwing up just about every single day. But... Ya know. Clone Wars so... *head desk* ...Ugh.
 
[member="Alkor Centaris"] and [member="Jay Scott Clark"] are pretty much along my line of thinking: Anakin had been toying with the Dark Side from day one, and the Jedi largely ignored that fact because they felt they needed Anakin. They weren't dumb enough to promote him to Jedi Master because of it, but to them, he was a pragmatist and an incredibly skilled warrior, and clearly none of them felt it necessary to look a little closer at where his abilities came from. Also, when you look at what Anakin was truly capable of, you had to wonder why Obi-Wan was able to defeat him: yes, Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master, but no true match for a warrior of Anakin's caliber. Anakin was undisciplined, volatile, whimsical and aggressive, and Obi-Wan recognised this and backed him into a corner he could not escape from. Strategy...

Also rather telling that their next confrontation (on the Death Star) has Vader noting that "When I left you, I was but the learner...", which is true. For a Sith at the beginning of his path. He wasn't a learner in the Jedi ways: he'd been a Jedi Knight for years, and powerful enough to be able to bring down the Jedi Order almost immediately after rejecting the Jedi path. That's an important distinction: he wasn't truly a Sith at that point, but a Dark Jedi with a Sith name and a whole lot of simmering resentment that he'd been holding onto for a while. But he's still acknowledging that he was an amateur in this moment: only twenty years later does he feel secure in his knowledge to face Obi-Wan a second time, now a Sith, not a Jedi with anger issues.

And, yeah, Lucas got a lot of things badly wrong in the Prequels. Honestly, the Clone Wars Anakin is closer to the man I would have expected to see in the Prequels: an adult with good reasons for his fall, not an angry teenager that has severe authority issues.

Other thing to note here: Anakin had been subtly manipulated by a Sith Lord for over a decade by the time of his fall. The fight with Dooku was clear evidence of that - and better written by James Luceno in the Ep3 Novelisation, by the by - here was a young man who had clear access to the darker side of his heart and, when encouraged to unleash it, utterly obliterated one of the best lightsaberists in the Galaxy, and then murdered him, with his Sith mentor looking on and observing. You can't just say that Anakin turned in an instant and therein lay his first exposure to the Dark Side. Not by a long shot. He'd dabbled in and played with the Dark Side for years, and the Jedi were too blind to see it (perhaps the reason for the daft 'blinded by the Dark Side' concept that Lucas came up with).

I should also add, by the way, that I wrote this guide completely in contrariness to my own opinion - I'm more of a Unifying Force person than a Light/Dark writer, but being Sith or Jedi kinda signs you up to the dichotomy, so I've written my guides as if that were entirely the case. I don't personally think that's it, but I have to approach this from the perspective of both the Jedi and the Sith, and the pathways they've limited themselves to. There's a ton of good literature out there that I've drawn on to come to those conclusions, but do please note that I find both groups patently misguided in how they deal with the Force: I don't think either one of them has bumped into 'the truth', but have limited themselves based on simple perceptions. And it gets way more complicated than that, so let's stick to the basics, shall we? :)
 

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