Fanning The Flame - Dogpilie Invasions

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Kor Vexen"]
Oh come on.

Poor sportsmanship during war is fine IC. OOC? We should be better.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Kor Vexen"]

My guy hates the Sith so I should obviously hate you OOc for writing Sith.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

I am ok with how things are at the moment.

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Tathra Khaeus"], Just because a weapon is broken in a game, doesn't mean you need to change the game to fix the gun.

Yes, you are right. Just because a gun is broken within a game, doesn't mean you are the best. However, the best players use those weapons because it gives them the best possible chance to win. Its then up to the other players to "Get good" and learn how to counter those weapons with those they have, or use the "broken gun" to even the playing field. Your analogy is not going to work to explain your situation. There is a "Meta" for a reason. Its because its known for working and is the tried and true.

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Kahlil Zambrano"], You are changing the game, when the game is not the problem. The game is the people using it. Stop blaming the game, when it was built to be played that way.

 

[Darth Bellum]

[member="Tathra Khaeus"]

I don't recall reading any of these invasions being for OOC reasons. I don't see what's difficult to understand here when they are being written as a result of IC actions with IC consequences. The Map game is brutal and unforgiving, and the only ones that have died as a result of it are factions that were either at the end of the line to the point where inactivity was going to remove them or they simply just did a poor job of maintaining proper political relations with others. OOC sportsmanship is how the writers from each faction interact with each other during threads like knowing not to just post 30 times before the opposition has an opportunity to post or being a dick to one another in DMs or publicly, not surrounding the declarations made over IC reasons.

If there is ever any clear evidence that can be provided for such poor behavior, that is already taken into account for the invasion results and will negatively affect the ones responsible. Like if Graf, Metus, Locke or Yasha decided to call each other retarded degenerates and we're going to invade you for being X, Y, or Z OOCly, then I believe a report to the admin team is in order, but unless it's that case I see no reasoning to make amends to the current system unless the Admin team themselves deem it to need heavy revisions on their own part rather than at the suggestion of a few people. If there is no such evidence, then there is no foul.


[member="Kahlil Zambrano"]

Your character hates Sith, therefore he should ICly hate my Sith for being a Sith. OOC hate would be your character hating even my Mandalorian/SJO characters as well because I also write a Sith.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Auberon"] the best players don't use those guns. The best players don't need the gun to win, because it should be about the player not the gun.

Chaos has been on a decline for a while. And this tried and true stuff, sure it works. But does that mean its okay or even fair? The best skill based playing field is a fair one. And unless people should sacrifice the integrity of their narratives and stories to be more open to a bunch of random characters in their faction, then it'll never be fair.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Auberon"]

Am I?

"Instead of invasions happening at the same time, why not make them back to back with the Ic story being they happen at the same time. This makes it so writers dont have to be in multiple invasions at the same time when they don't want to be."

What does that change asides from making it more IC?

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Kor Vexen"]

It's never so black and white. You think none of that gets said just because its not to each others faces? It's a politics game OOCly, of course it looks clean on face value.

And, maybe its just opinion. But to me its poor OOC interaction to counter-invade a smaller faction during their invasion period when it could ICly take place any time at any later OOC time.

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Tathra Khaeus"], Go play any First person shooter, Go play Dark Souls. Go play any game that has PvP elements, and then tell me that people don't use them because they are "good players" People use the weapons because they allow them to have an advantage in battle.

Multiple invasions, all the in same month, from multiple factions, is an advantage for those attacking. They are using the tactic to win. The map game is about winning and losing. Not about what you feel is sportsmanship or fair. What you are attempting to do is involve OOC sportsmenship into IC reasons so people don't get clapped. When the name of the game, is to either clap others, or to get clapped.

[member="Kahlil Zambrano"], it is already filled to the brim with IC intentions. Closing it down so only two people/factions can go at it changes the name of the game.

 

[Vora Kaar]

And, maybe its just opinion. But to me its poor OOC interaction to counter-invade a smaller faction during their invasion period when it could ICly take place any time at any later OOC time.

They forced themselves to become this so called "Small faction" because of OOC actions where people didn't want to play with them. They made themselves small by fighting other factions IC and alienating all others except the TSE because Carfinex wanted some lackys he could control. The Mandalorian faction is not small. In fact, they are larger than the CIC. One of the factions that is invading them. the ME declared, the called the invasion against the SJO, and the CIS had been planning on dropping the Invasion on the 4th of july for literal months.

the ME did this to themselves.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Auberon"]

"Because it makes IC, we will do multiple invasions at the same time OOC."

Or

"We write the story IC how it is, and be kind and courteous to our fellow writers OOC because at the end of the day, this is an RP board, not a FPS or real life."

Yes, it would change the game. And allow for more players to come into the field. Factions of 7 can actually do invasions because the big boys can't all dogpile. More factions means more invasions. More interactions.

More writing. Why is that bad?

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Kahlil Zambrano"],

"Because it makes IC, we will do multiple invasions at the same time OOC." Or "We write the story IC how it is, and be kind and courteous to our fellow writers OOC because at the end of the day, this is an RP board, not a FPS or real life."

"Because it makes IC sense, We do multiple invasions IC to wear them down because its a tactic to have more numbers, or more forces attacking from multiple sides"

When ever has this tactic been used purely for OOC reasons? Every faction is using this tactic as an IC reason.

"SJO: Uh CIS? we are being attacked. Mind if you smack them for us since we are defending at the moment?"
"CIS: Sure! We can do that. OH! The CIC decided they wanted to come in Becuase they are our allies."
"SJO: Cool. After you guys are done, we can then launch are own offensive."

this is all done in real time, as a tactic of the Map game.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Auberon"] as someone who has been playing FPS' for ages. I wholeheartedly disagree. Let's take Halo 4 for example, people would use promethean vision and the boltshot to win because that was the meta. I never did, I stuck to my BR. Did I lose sometimes? Sure. Does losing make you worse than the other guy when they need a crutch to win? No, it makes them a coward. I never camp, and I never play dirty. And when I win, its because I really am better.

If you need to dogpile, or use the system to its utmost to win. Even when you're the biggest, baddest faction out there? That makes you the opposite of good. Winning isn't everything to being a good player. Sure dogpiling is an advantage, but then its not really that competitive. If you can't beat them on a fair playing field, then you aren't good. You aren't, a good PvP player.

With what I suggested, those that want that full on war can have it. Those majors that maybe can't handle it yet, but don't want to play a docile befriend all faction until they get big enough? Can go at their own pace. This keeps what you want, and gives room for others to grow. OOC feelings or politics shouldn't affect how we treated each other until we're Pvping. And that isn't the case.

And yes, its filled to the brim with IC intentions. But its an OOC tactic, and Metus - Yasha, the whole lot don't like each other. Should that matter? No, but it does. I haven't seen the CIS invade a faction they didn't OOCly like. NR, Jenari, and the ME.

 

[WolfMortum]

I've been around Chaos long enough to experience both sides of this argument, so I'm not ignorant to where these complaints and bias against the current game mechanics are coming from. However, all Factions are capable of making Alliances and using them to their advantage in such a way, and we also have the Faction Mandate's to up the ante for Invasions and Faction competition, because that is essentially what the Map-Game is, a competitive stage for Factions to play with, and against one another.

The Silver Jedi Order have fallen victim to the very same tactic before, and they managed not only to overcome the threat of the First Order, The Mandalorian Empire and The Sith Empire, but are now one of the arguably stronger factions for their efforts and persistence. This is one example of the risk/reward system of the Map-game. Each and every faction are managed by the same rules, and given the same chances to make the most of the Map-Game.

This isn't to say that it doesn't suck when you're being targeted, but that's war for you and war was never meant to be fair. If war was fear, there'd never be a losing side. For me personally, House Arenais is using all of this political chaos to make a great story out of it. Kay and Veiere, the kids, all caught up in it and being put against one another. I've chosen to focus on the IC side of things and not get caught up in all the negative drama that's being aired by peoples attitudes towards, what has otherwise been fair ground for all major factions coming into the map-game and knowing the risks, what they were signing on for.

This is the challenge, the risks and the rush of the game that we play.

Perhaps the Faction Mandate's are the better option here, as Valiens and Site Staff have said often lately that they're looking at reworking some of them. Maybe it's time some people started thinking about how they could come into play here, not just for their own faction, but every group involved in the risk/reward system we're playing at.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Auberon"]

Which can be written as the IC Narritive without needing to be the OOC one. The only reason to have multiple invasions at the same time OOC is for OOC. That whole story can easily be written over several threads that take place separately OOCly

 

[Vora Kaar]

[member="Tathra Khaeus"],

"Ask the Dead if their Honor won the war."

 

[Fatty]

Poor sportmanship during war. I'm sure the folks at Pearl Harbor or Poland would have wished the enemy were good sports.

Probably best to keep real world examples of conflict out of a discussion of fictional game-wars which do not share near the same magnitude of seriousness.

Kahlil Zambrano, Why change it now. Why make a deal out of it now? Why should the rules be changed simply because people feel like they are being bullied? Why should the rules change when both sides are dishing out punches at one another? Why bring it up when everyone has done this in the past? The map game was made to be a "Win" and a "Lose." There was NO story in it at all when Invasions were first created. It was changed so that people who can't write PVP can still stand up to it.

The rules are fine as they are. They deserve to be a competitive avenue for those who wish to do so. If you want story, then make a Minor Faction and play your own story with your own group.

The Map Game, is whoever can get the most planets under their Influence. Who can get most ground the fastest. Play any one of the majority of games now, where there is a PVP element. You have to fight to earn your way. No story, no extras. The rules are just to fight one another. What you use, how you use it, is up to every different person.

The Map game, is that fight. Leave it alone. Go play your stories in your other threads. Invasions are meant to be where PVP takes a forefront instead of a backburner.

Emphasis added.

First of all, if there is ever a point where people are being pushed to feel like they are being bullied on a website specifically designed for the purpose of catering to, and entertaining people's fantasy in a shared universe, that is EXACTLY the reason why rules should begin consideration for alteration. In fact, in any place where people are being stressed out to the point where they feel they are being targeted by bullying or harassment, and they feel that certain rules allowing a certain behavior are a cause, those rules SHOULD be reviewed. So don't act like such sentiments are not a valid reason for rules to change, if they are indeed a valid factor in their completely normal feelings.

Second, Invasions were not changed to "cater" to anyone. They were changed because they produce so much undue and senseless stress over who had the "bigger stick" during any given PvP encounter, which simply is not sustainable. So they changed the measuring stick to something tangible, something that could be judged beyond "yes, person A pulled out more factory submissions than person B, and person B conceded ICly after they were berated by the opponent writer OOCly", to what was entertaining to the audience to read. Believe or not, stories exist in invasions, as they should, because that's what everyone came to the board to do. If you didn't come for that, I don't know what you're doing here. Go play a multiplayer video game if you don't want to write stories here. The senseless "person A hits person B repeatedly until their writer decides they've had enough of the other person writing" doesn't belong here. All duels should be cooperative, because every other element of writing here is cooperative. If it wasn't, than it would just be Tefka writing his star wars fanfic on his own, and that would be it.

Thirdly, and lastly, Invasions have an ELEMENT of PVP. That is not to say an Invasion has no story. That's like saying that none of the battles in the films of star wars had any narrative purpose. Of course they did, to say otherwise is literally contrary to what is presented in the films. Invasions and battles in writing and film are the results of story action, and act as the BACKDROP for character interaction. The focus is never "group A battles group B. That's all that happens, here is the winner". To make invasions such would make them narratively boring and uninteresting.

I'm not going to accuse you of anything, but your post here came off as exceptionally judgmental. I suggest you reevaluate how you write so as to not appear as such.

 

[Tathra Khaeus]

[member="Auberon"]

This is a game where we can choose​ to be honourable. And the only real negative on that is that. maybe it won't be so easy for bigger groups to stomp on little ones.

This isn't a war, this is a writing game. Not an elite CSGO lobby. Flip me.

 

[Kahlil Noble]

[member="Veiere Arenais"]

War is not fair. But to use that as an excuse to make writing the story unfair is wrong. The IC narritive can easily be an uphill battle against the odds.

But that doesn't have to be the OOC. This is a role playing board, not a wargame.