I'm going to respectfully ignore the other posts in this thread except
Zark San Tekka
's, because the other quotes pulling from my initial response are being taken out of context.
This kind of mentality is the source of a lot of problems on Chaos with the ruleset right now imo. It goes both ways, by making majors too big to fail in order to safeguard long term effort, the community is tacitly accepting that the only way to engage in a war with real stakes is by forcing drawn out OOC drama with reluctant factions.
That's great, I'm glad we agree that we shouldn't make majors too big to fail. They should be willing to go out before they're a walking corpse.
Trying to burn out those other members by inundating that faction with collaborated invasions with the sole intent of making those writers quit? That is only the fault of the party taking part in that endeavor. The issue has zero to do with not wanting to die as a faction, in fact I'd say the kind of ignorance to the
real problem, the problem you are portraying with full irony in your efforts to "solve" whatever problem you perceive to exist in a faction with an active member base wanting to continue to exist.
What is that, you'll ask?
Why, it's a lack of communication, it's a lack of cooperation, it's a lack of respect, it's a lack of a desire to write with other members, and what do these things cause?
- A faction forms with the intent of getting rid of B faction, they don't write any threads with B faction, they don't even attempt to communication with B faction, except to imply they exist, as their identity, to remove B faction from the map.
- B faction ignores them, because A faction hasn't approached them for writing, so A faction feels like they have no activity going on besides "boring" dominions, and seek to correct that by immediately launch invasions towards B faction's capital. Still no communication, to be clear, except a clarification on A faction's goal to eliminate B faction. No other threads, nothing except for a few last ditch efforts by B faction when they realize A faction may have wanted to write with them, but didn't know because A faction hadn't communicated this to them.
- A faction ignores threads, because now they think B faction is just holding on rather than participating in whatever war story A faction wants. B faction, in reaction, simply participates in the invasion while continuing to do their normal faction roleplay, because they're ok with A faction invading them and actually enjoy the invasions - while A faction thinks they're actually burning B faction out, which isn't the case.
- A faction, realizing this isn't going to be a quick one-and-done invasion, talks to a couple other faction leaders via discord, or over board PM, and paints the idea of a coalition against this faction as being cool as an idea - and even B faction would have probably enjoyed the idea, were it communicated to them - but A faction doesn't bring this up with B faction, and the next day, after the first invasion ends, another faction invades - and then another.
- Suddenly B faction is diverting all of attention to these strings of invasions, forgetting about their dominions, while doing a few faction threads in the time they find available to them - 1000 posts in 30 days, but A faction still thinks B faction is stagnating.
- As A faction realizes that an active faction isn't going to die because they can invade back, or grow, or move, or any other thing they start feeling the effects of putting all of this effort solely into the idea of burning out B faction. B faction still isn't tired, because they don't care about their dominions and are enjoying, for the most part, the invasions.
- A faction members start to get unhappy with the system in place, because they thought they'd get rid of B faction in a few short months, instead B faction is still around and have only lost one invasion so far, and in fact are gaining members. A faction, and possibly other factions involved, start to think they shouldn't need to feel bad about trying to burn out B faction, so they try to push those writers in that faction to make the faction die from the inside.
- After an indeterminate time later, A faction dies after members lose interest in the faction because either B faction no longer exists, or because B faction used their loss in war to change who they are and their identity as a major faction into something new while A faction is stuck as the faction built to kill something that isn't even there anymore.
That chain of events, right there, that's what the problem is.
It is "A Factions" fault for engaging in a
community role-playing forum without actually trying to be a part of the community - for not communicating their desire to write, by not compromising with an idea they have, by not accepting they won't always get everything their way the moment they want it.
This blatant desire to change how writers behave, and to reshape the rules of the site, so that you can make a faction you don't like, or you feel isn't relevant, disappear from the map is the problem. It isn't that the faction doesn't want to go away while it has an active writer base, it isn't because it takes a "long time" to kill a faction.
Bury your head in the sand all you like, but you're only seeing things from the perspective granted to you
by someone who isn't even in a faction you think should be off the map. It would be like if I made a discussion about giving writers the ability to kill other writer's characters before they were ready to do so just because I think they've been around long enough and I want to see new characters crop up, and then admit to doing as much as I could to make the writer quit because I feel they're at fault for not being done with a concept they feel there's still more they can do with.
Not every big faction is the
original Galactic Alliance, where it existed from its conception as a faction to eliminate another faction and then fell apart the moment that goal was reached because there wasn't any other stories to tell besides "boring" dominions. Yeah, the old/original Galactic Alliance is an excellent example of a faction that realized this inevitability and the course it was on to do a collaborative event with other factions on the board to go out with a bang, but that doesn't change the fact that it was already withering away.
Applying for the major is supposed to come with risk. Any territory you gain can be contested. Have things fallen so far that we've forgotten that? Just like you aren't going away the people who are here to tell those kind of big pvp stories about toppling empires aren't going away. This is basically giving them two choices, get called an nerf herder in backrooms by the other side or leave the site. "If you don't like the drama just leave us alone" is a Jen'ari level argument and it's dismaying to see it voiced by a TSE rep of all people.
lol. I am actually not sure how to respond to this if you genuinely think I am telling people not to invade the Sith Empire.
So in the interest of not assuming the worst and hoping this is just a genuine misunderstanding, I'll explain:
- The Sith Empire is happy with the invasions we're going through.
- The Sith Empire has story lines planned for a loss of Bastion, or a successful turnaround in this 'war' that you seem to think we're not happy about.
- The Sith Empire is not happy with the way people are framing us as a stagnant mess that has no activity, or whatever it is you think we are.
- The Sith Empire is fully prepared for a loss at Bastion that will see a significant change in the faction from the top down, full internal strife and all that. We aren't going to just relocate and keep doing the same stuff as we have been doing.
I am not telling anyone to leave us alone, I'm saying that if you actually think that you (not you specifically, but someone reading this) feel that you are burning out another faction, and you're doing it on purpose, then you need to take a step back and say "should I approach this faction and see if this is the case, and maybe pursue temporary avenues of role-play?" rather than "this faction should just get off the map already, I am tired of burning out these writers"; especially if the faction in question is fully accepting of whatever fate may be coming their way.
I am
disappointed that my idol of a faction owner is the person who is taking my words out of context and assuming the worst in me without actually asking me to clarify whatever you were confused by. I'm not explaining the full extent of what story avenues the Sith Empire will explore in the event we lose Bastion, or in the event that we push the NIO back, because our faction is still only
one invasion done out of many and it's
too early to come to a conclusion on what we'll do moving forward just yet.
All I can say is, I've mentioned a few things to the faction invading us, or at least their faction owner, and I have tried to find a story avenue that works for both factions. Per your own words,
it goes both ways. I can't do for other factions what they aren't willing to do for themselves. The Sith Empire, under the name it is currently or any other name it might take in the future, intends to use the war storyline as the start of a newer faction direction and identity change, that isn't something that has been disclosed to the factions invading us because they
haven't asked.
I understand the value of months of hard work and there is a sense of pride in accomplishment that goes beyond simple ego, but the people who like war are here to stay and according to the rules we have agreed to OOC hellwar is the unofficial method of effecting true map change. You get what you pay for.
Yeah, and I'm here for war too. I love invasions, I loved Mygeeto and Muunilist, I even told
Irveric Tavlar
and
Loske Treicolt
that they gave me one of the most enjoyable duels I've ever had
in the history of my time on this website, and I have enjoyed writing with
Cyrus Tregessar
and
Gilamar Skirata
and
Kainan Wolfe
in our naval engagements with my "fleeting" character.
The only thing I don't like is this idea that a faction should be able to force another faction to be removed from the map because they're unable to comprehend that the faction they want to remove can use the loss of a war to change who and what they are in order to grow. I am happy the Sith Empire is being invaded, and sure, I'd like if there was at least a couple days between invasions in the last 60 days, but I am looking forward to what comes after more than anything. Why? Because I see ways I can turn the loss of a war into a story for a new start for the Sith Empire (or whatever it may turn into at that point), and even if we win I see ways we could change to suit the people who defected from us originally.
That's what Chaos is about, writing cooperatively with other people and adapting to circumstances that constantly change around you. Maybe some people think the Sith Empire is on its way out, or that it should be on its way out, because they think a major faction should go minor rather than evolve into something else, but I think they're wrong.
And, personally, I think you're wrong for agreeing.
Gerwald Lechner
Grab the mandate that gives you 5 doms and it will take a few months, not a year. Not to mention those splinter factions several CIS staffers have started building wouldn't have needed a year either. But, effort and unwillingness.
