Suggestion Add "Sub Link" on Map for Subbed Canon Planets

[Okkeus Dainlei]

Hey y'all, quick little suggestion I have.

So my guess is that most of you know some of the planets in Star Wars don't have that much detail/backstory to them. Then we get wonderuful writers on Chaos who sub out these Canon planets, giving them life.

Like Bigfatpenn for example, who subbed out Stewjon. So why don't we give them props for this on the map?

I realize that it look s a little weird right now, but this is my idea: we should add a secondary tab underneath planets, like Stewjon, that have Chaos Canon subs for them. That way if someone wants to write a story on the planet, they would have the Wookie link and the Chaos one.

So, what do y'all think?

 

[Srina Talon]

Okkeus Dainlei

I like the idea of giving members a shout-out for their hard work. That always makes me happy. This, though, is actually an idea that we've been over in the past. The reason we don't add "Custom Canon" planets to the map is because anyone at any time can sub any version of Stewjon. Just like there have been multiple submissions of Mandalore. How can we say which one is actually correct? Who keeps track every time a member makes a Custom Canon world? How many "Sub Links" can we wind up with?

I'm not privy to the ease or complexity of "adding" or removing an extra heading/field to the database but I imagine it could add to bloat on the map pretty easily as well. Especially, if that list got long enough.

It is some pretty fly thinking though, sir.

 

[Okkeus Dainlei]

Srina Talon

Hm...I didn't think about multiple variations of a planet sub. That could make it confusing.

Quick little thought, could it possibly work in the same was as a Map Thread Update? If a person was to create a sub of a planet while a current sub exists, they could put in a request there for it to either be added or swapped out.

Would that work? Just brainstorming here.

 

[Errant]

Only way I could see this working would be if you did it for a major faction.

NIO owns Bastion, decides to do a whole sub for the planet, so they update it. NIO loses Bastion, new faction decides to do the same, they update it. Bastion goes neutral, goes back to wookie link.

I don't think you can fairly trade something out because someone put an update up on the thread recently.

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Okkeus Dainlei

Totally going to chime in since you've picked on a planet I actually based my character off of...

Wouldn't what you just suggested be counterproductive to your previous suggestion. For example. I roleplay Stewjon no where near the way the current submission suggests the culture of the planet is. In my mind it has a very Viking Aesthetic in nature and in culture. If I were to sub Stewjon and use an update to swap it out... then wouldn't that invalidate the work of the person who wrote a FANTASTIC submission for the planet? What would stop someone else from doing the same for me? I think it gets back to what Srina posted in her reply. Because Chaos is a massive sandbox... who is to say which submission is correct? If we go down that path then we open the door for a lot of gatekeeping which is something we don't do on chaos.

Love the fact you want to showcase people's hard work though! There are a lot of extremely talented and creative people in this community.

 

[Errant]

Why tf y'all writing on Stewjon to begin with?

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Errant

Mainly because when I made this character the CIS was hosting a dominion on the planet, so I used the dominion as the backdrop to introduce this character. Had it been a different planet... I wouldn't playing with Stewjon lol.

 

[Srina Talon]

Lies. There's a slew of buried treasure.

But everyone raises good points. Doing it by major faction would be "more" doable but still not quite there. We'd still run into an issue w/out-dated info or players leaving the board and the planet being locked to the original submitter.

 

[Errant]

Errant

Mainly because when I made this character the CIS was hosting a dominion on the planet, so I used the dominion as the backdrop to introduce this character. Had it been a different planet... I wouldn't playing with Stewjon lol.

Pragmatic. I respect this.

 

[Gerwald Lechner]

Lies. There's a slew of buried treasure.

Man... I haven't found it yet... better get digging!

 

[Rynn Vizsla]

If you're subbing a replacement for a planet's entry, shouldn't you do your due diligence and include previous submissions in the primary sources/links field? To me, that's a good way of connecting the dots between the old and the new. Add on timestamps and map update requests - the most recent entry would likely be considered the most up-to-date.

Canon planet's aren't, nor should be locked to a single submitter either. Especially if they left the site or are no longer interested in world-building. People make replacements for locations, be they fanon or canon all the time, so there shouldn't be any difference when it comes to planets either.

Ideally, this idea isn't hard to implement, and it has the positive benefit of showcasing our communities hard-work with world-building and lore. I say this because some, or most people can't be bothered to use the search function to look-up any fanon additions to canon planets, so a lot of that data is tossed by the wayside until someone mentions it; either off-hand or by storming into discord channels, lol. Sure, it's there to be found by those willing to do the research, but in adding something like this - it's a more quality of life improvement.

So, it's got my support.

 

[Srina Talon]

. . .Not quite so simple.

We still run into the potential of bloat on the map by adding a lot of extra links. We also run the risk that two or more individuals could submit two different versions of the same planet at the same time. I hath seen the "submission wars" in an attempt to counter perspectives and it also gets a little too close to "Chronicles" which were removed years ago. There's a reason we don't hard enforce what is "canon" and what isn't. We let everyone pick and choose (outside of timelines) what they want to acknowledge; Or what they want to leave at the wayside.

Regardless of the "primary sources available" this information is still interpreted and written in the words of the submitter. The Mandalorians will no doubt have a different take on what happened to Mandalore and the after-effects while some of the Sith may also have a different opinion. We could have two very conflicting views existing at the same time, with neither, actually being right or wrong.

Canon Planets are not linked to a single submitter. What I was referring to was the suggestion that was brought up that Major Factions be allowed to submit Canon Worlds in this fashion. If they want to edit or expand on that submission; that would be locked to the submitter. They could definitely resubmit it as a team and do it all over again...But that gets tedious too. Then we run into players that are unaffiliated from Major Factions that simply want to flesh out a planet, but they can't, because the Major Faction has already done so.

It's far more limiting than it appears to be at first blush. There's that...But more than anything else; the technical aspect too.

 

[Rynn Vizsla]

Bloating the map already happens through major factions and custom planets. Adding another field for several submissions here and there doesn't seem like unnecessary bloat to me, as mentioned earlier - it's a quality of life improvement to help spread world-building love. If two people do somehow manage to submit the same canon planet, which is highly unlikely, as it's the only portion of the codex that requires a two-factor approval process - I'm sure it'd be easy to determine which one gets passed through and which one doesn't.

Even then, it's very unlikely to happen as there's a large effort factor that needs to be considered when making a planet submission. If someone else is making a submission, but you want to have a say? Well, that's why team-built submissions and crowd-sourcing are a thing. The same thing can go for folks wanting to make a submission for a planet being held by a major faction - ala communication between faction and submitter.

One could argue that since the Sith gave up control of Mandalore, their say in what happens on that planet is inconsequential to those that presently own it. It's up to the major faction, or the people making the submission, to honour the events of the past as they move towards the future if it becomes unaffiliated. As we've no doubt stated many times, the Codex is optional. People can take the fanon information and treat it as site canon if they like, or simply stick with what's listed on wookieepedia.

All that's being asked is that those who've spent the time fleshing out a canon planet's history with a submission, have a place where their work can be showcased in a convenient manner.

But, you're right. The largest, and only real limitation to this suggestion is whether or not it's possible to be added. So, I suppose this suggestion ultimately falls on tech support, and from there - if you accept or deny it.

 

[Milla Kryst]

Okkeus Dainlei

I like the idea of giving members a shout-out for their hard work. That always makes me happy. This, though, is actually an idea that we've been over in the past. The reason we don't add "Custom Canon" planets to the map is because anyone at any time can sub any version of Stewjon. Just like there have been multiple submissions of Mandalore. How can we say which one is actually correct? Who keeps track every time a member makes a Custom Canon world? How many "Sub Links" can we wind up with?

I'm not privy to the ease or complexity of "adding" or removing an extra heading/field to the database but I imagine it could add to bloat on the map pretty easily as well. Especially, if that list got long enough.

It is some pretty fly thinking though, sir.

Why not hold contests for the best planet submissions? That way you don't add a dozen plus planets to the map everyday, and it's another way to show off the greatest members works of art? And the benefit of the contest is you get the planet on the map?

 

[Audren Sykes]

Would it be better to have the link point to a search of the Planets sub-forum where the name of the planet is contained in the subject? That way all of the approved planet subs for that specific planet come up instead of picking an arbitrary one. If I'm reading it right

 https://www.starwarsrp.net/search/1976821/?q=PlanetName&t=post&c[child_nodes]=1&c[nodes][0]=65&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

(with PlanetName in the URL being replaced by the planet's actual name) would bring about this suggested result.

 

[Fatty]

I love the sentiment behind this, and hope it is a technical possibility to implement, but as others have pointed out there are a few bureaucratic dilemmas to sort out even if it is technically possible.

I think a system of recency and required inclusion of prior submission history (if it exists) could possibly work. Say the original submitter of an approved [Canon] Planet submission has a year of time before someone else may have an opportunity to write a submission for it (if they wanted to) provided that the original submitter is unavailable (or otherwise cedes ownership, which may be done prior to the one year has elapsed). The new submitter will be required to include the information in the previous submission, a link to the previous submission, and appropriately tagging where the submitted information came from (who wrote what) so its history continues to carry on, no matter who ends up adding to it. Then, once it has received its second approval it may be requested for a link update in the map updates thread.

To me, that sounds like plenty of eyes on the project, and a clause to protect ownership within a reasonable time frame.

This does not, however, resolve any concerns of excessive bloat on the map. As while there are precious few Canon Planet Submissions that I am aware of now, if this double linking comes into the public mind, it may become a great deal more popular, and thus a great big head ache very quickly. Suddenly, what started out as a nod to world builders becomes an overbloated mess of links and possibly incomprehensible subs over time.

So implemented or not, there are valid concerns and risks to be weighed.

 

[Strider Garon]

I can't be bothered to search for fanmade writeups for Cannon planets. For me, if its not on Wookiepedia/Link provided on the map then its just suggestive and up to me if i want that content in my RP or not. Making importance of fan made content of Canon Planet gives said author a precieved creative ownership of said Planet and can lead to unnecessary OOC Conflict over make belief content of other's rp. IE; Storming a discord. In respect to Freeform RP if one found it important enough or thought it would help other writers if they notice someone writing on said planet, toss them a link and say "Hey, this could add more valued content. Use it or dont. have fun". That would be the most diplomatic way about it. Unless Admins and Moderators want to add more to their plate and start enforcing that Codex approved content of Cannon planets are a must? If answer is yes, then you need to place the sublink in the map.

 

[Hailyn]

Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, just add a hyperlink to a search for the planet name in the Approved Planets section of the codex so people can make their own informed decisions on whether they want to adhere to a given person's view of a planet or not. You won't need to add a long list of sub links or be stuck with anything locked away if the link leads to a populated search list instead. Chaos is a sandbox, after all, so let the codified canon worlds be treated as such.

Edit: I didn't see Audren Sykes suggestion above, but I believe we share the same view.

 

[Tefka]

It's possible. Our Codex Administrator's been super nice on explaining the in's and out's of the idea. So we understand, it's possible.

It's just not going to happen. Ever.

Lean on that search box.