Why I won't watch the sequel

[Darth Imperatus]

I just posted this on my blog and I figured it would be a controversial topic, so I'm putting it here for the whole forum to argue about! What do you guys think about this matter?

____________

I know I must seem very negative, going from "why I don't..." to "why I won't..." but the truth is I'm a very cynical person and a professional pessimist, so I'm going to write this anyway.

I do not want new Star Wars movies. As you will probably have guessed from my last post, I do not want new Star Wars anything. If I had my way there would be no prequels, no comics, no god-awful animated spinoffs, and no soul-rendingly horrible and unnecessary changes. Star Wars is quite literally my favorite thing ever, and for me the original trilogy is perfect exactly as it is. Cynical as I am, I do not think any story will ever be as good as Star Wars, and nor do I really want there to be a story that is as good as Star Wars.

The bottom line is Disney is not making a new trilogy with the intention of it being as good as the originals. They are doing it because they know, as sure as they know that the falcon is really, really fast, that however terrible the new movies are, however much they rip our childhoods to shreds, we will still stand in the queues for the early nerd special and pay triple price for the tickets. This is about money, and nothing else.

Unfortunately, the new movies are being made and there's nothing I can do about that--but I can choose whether to acknowledge their existence. This might sound weird and petty, but as I touched on yesterday, "canon" is not what the person with the fancy documents says is canon. Canon is what we, as an audience, decide is part of the story. I know that the EU exists, and I know that it is officially part of the Star Wars continuity, but my subconscious mind has not placed the EU in the same proverbial file as the original trilogy. In my mind, they are separate things, not really part of the same story, and I keep it that way by not reading the comics or watching the Clone Wars or anything else like that. I intend to do the same with the sequels.

But why? I hear you say. Yes, it probably won't be as good as the originals, but come on, man! It's Star Wars!

But that's the thing! To me, it is not Star Wars, and I will not allow it to be Star Wars. And this is not based purely on some nostalgia-driven innate cynicism, because up until very recently I still planned to watch the new movies, however fearful I was. No, I have come to this decision through careful consideration, and the final straw which broke the donkey's back was this: Luke, Han and Leia are going to be in it, and they're going to be old. The prequels were bad enough, but at least the characters were different, even if the universe was the same. But to see my heroes, my favorite characters of all time, grey-haired and stiff-jointed? It would quite literally be like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull multiplied by three.
And not only are they old; they are going to die. I am absolutely certain that at least one of them is going to die within the trilogy, most likely within the first movie--because that's how this sort of epic fantasy works. The torch must be passed to a new generation, with the old being replaced by the new. And these characters will nobly sacrifice themselves, whether literally or figuratively, just as Ben did when he passed the torch to Luke.

At least in its present state Star Wars finishes with the good ones--the ending, as is stands, is "happily ever after." The sequels are going to change that. "Happily ever after" will become "and then they grew old and died," and the characters we love so much will be replaced by a new, infinitely inferior generation of heroes. After all Star Wars has been through, you'd think that the least we could do is allow it to die happy--and I, for one, will honor that.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

And this is not based purely on some nostalgia-driven innate cynicism

Sure it isn't.

That'd be crazy.

 

[Darth Imperatus]

Sure it isn't.

That'd be crazy.

Back in my day, we didn't make posts like that...

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Back in my day, we didn't make posts like that...

I c w0t u did thar

 

[Darth Imperatus]

[member="Darth Vornskr"]

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

Well, to be honest, I think sequels could easily outmatch the originals... Just sayin', don't judge me.

Some explanation for those who want to hear reasons [read only if you appreciate people's opinions, otherwise leave now]:

Spoiler

First of all (it's actually the only point I want to make, but I just said that to sound better ), most of you were born to the originals. You were born before the prequels were out, you were in the suitable age of watching Star Wars before the prequels came out. Even though I was born before The Phantom Menace, I wasn't old enough to watch Star Wars films. And when I was old enough, prequels were already out, of course I started watching a series from the very beginning, which chronologically, is The Phantom Menace. Then, after watching the third film, a serious transition happened. From a story-rich, environmentally stunning third film, I suddenly found myself in a story-lacking, cold-feeling old film. The difference was huge, the originals were dumb when compared to the prequels. But I can't change the way I think about the trilogies anymore. I know, I should have started with the fourth film, but instead, I started with the first one. This (kind of a) mistake ruined the originals for me and now I can't look at them like you can. It's psychology (don't be mean if I'm wrong, I am no psychology doctor). I hope you understand me on this occasion.

Now, the sequels may feel a bit off, but I am sure they don't lack story and have supreme environment, just like the prequels. I am hoping for better acting and script, though. That's one good thing about originals: the actors were great. Not perfect, but great. I am expecting greatness from the sequels and that's exactly why I want to watch them. If they are great, I believe I have a new favourite trilogy. Well, yeah, though without Yoda. (why did you have to dieeeeeee? )

 

[Adenn Gra'tua]

I do not really like the idea of the new trilogy, mostly because the original trilogy was so good, and the prequel wasn't as good, I still like them though, mostly the action parts though, as they look better that in the original (visually more so). Now I grew up with the original trilogy, but I was born after episode 1 came out, then by the time I was old enough to watch the originals, all the prequels had came out, so then I watched those, and in my young age I didn't look at had changed or how bad the acting was, I looked at the flashes, so at that time (in my mind), the prequels were better... And they had Darth Mual.

But yea, as of now for the new trilogy, I'm mostly afraid of them throwing away what I know (and from what I believe they are), and trying to change what I know to... Whatever they are going to, but I also don't want them to change the stormtroopers, nobody touches my stormtroopers.

 

[Konahrik the Forgotten]

Mmmm, I have to disagree with pretty much your entire argument out of personal oppinion, Mekaloth. Now, I'm not going to be that one guy that refuses to accept you as a lover of Star Wars just because you disagree with the comics, or with the new movies (I can understand The Clone Wars series), however the main disagreement for me is what you consider "canon". Now, again, I'm not going to hate, cause everyone is entitled to their own oppinion. However it is for that very reason that I would like to state my own, as well as my point of view on the new movies, the EU, and everything else.

1) The new movies.
Easily the more sensitive topic here today (And the main topic of the thread for that matter). Whilst I am still rather angry about Disney being at the head of them, I still plan to watch them because, hey, it's Star Wars (So sue me ). Bits of your argument, specifically the following;

And not only are they old; they are going to die. I am absolutely certain that at least one of them is going to die within the trilogy, most likely within the first movie

are rendered competely invalid by the novels (Which, I am going to assume you haven't read, if you made these assumptions). Whilst, yes, one of the characters of the original cast does eventually die (They all die eventually), I can assure you it is not within the first three books after episode 6, which, by the way, was also a book along with the other 5 movies before the film adaptation (To my knowledge).

2) What you consider "canon" and what I consider "canon":
Now keep in mind this section is 100% my personal oppinion, my intention is neither to chew you out on your oppinion, or to be chewed out for my own. From my point of view, the things you count as "canon" within the SWU are extremely limited, and there are certain things within the comics and the EU (Not The Clone Wars series) that simply are necesary for the movies and/or the original trilogy and prequel books to make sense. The comics and the novels are a part of the EU and are considered by the vast majority (Including myself) as canon to the SWU. Perhaps the only point where I agree with you as not being canon to the SWU (And you could probably guess from the numerous times mentioned) is The Clone Wars series. There are many things that are wrong with this series, too many to count, species that are incorrectly labled, events that don't mix with the canon SWU (Asajj Ventres is NOT a Dathomiri! She is a A Rattatan, BORN in Rattatak, and I refuse to accept her section of the Wookiepedia for no other reason that it follows the TCW series for its lore. It makes me angry! oFTo )

3) My personal suggestion
I can understand you not wanting to see the new movies, however you should at least, in my opinion, try to find and read the novels, as well as give the comics a shot (They arent that bad, and there are many interesting things in the SWU that cannot be found anywhere other than the comics and novels). If you dont want to, I wont stop you, however I can guarrantee you that you are going to run into material regarding the novels and comics everywhere (Including me ). To each his own I always say, and I'm glad you decided to share your oppinion with us, especially over such a sensitive topic. There should be more people discussing these things, and less people making others outcasts for wanting to discuss it or for having an oppinion. (If you do not wish to accept an oppinion, you arent a hardcore fan, you are just a stubborn neusciance, this goes for absolutely everyone, and I make no exceptions)

 

[Darth Imperatus]

1) The new movies.
Easily the more sensitive topic here today (And the main topic of the thread for that matter). Whilst I am still rather angry about Disney being at the head of them, I still plan to watch them because, hey, it's Star Wars (So sue me ). Bits of your argument, specifically the following;

are rendered competely invalid by the novels (Which, I am going to assume you haven't read, if you made these assumptions). Whilst, yes, one of the characters of the original cast does eventually die (They all die eventually), I can assure you it is not within the first three books after episode 6, which, by the way, was also a book along with the other 5 movies before the film adaptation (To my knowledge).

You can't expect them to follow the novels completely. Adaptations do not work that way. Yes, I expect them to take several key components of the EU, but making a good movie and making a good novel are two completely different things. Yes, they will likely draw from these novels, but to re-tell them in order, following every detail? Nothing like that has ever happened and nor should it ever happen. I still maintain that they are going to die because that's how you make a good fantasy movie. At any rate, they'll be baggage both for the characters and the movie itself. You can't base an action-oriented movie around 3 senior citizens--it's not practical.

Whilst I am still rather angry about Disney being at the head of them,

I have to disagree with you there also. Disney did a fantastic job with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, not to mention other classics like Pirates of the Carribean. (Avatar's up there too, obviously, but honestly I think that was a bit of a letdown.) Disney are unfairly stereotyped in my opinion--of course, I can understand why, but if you look at the last decade and what movies will be remembered as the true blockbusters which it produced, you're looking at stuff like The Lord of the Rings, The Avengers, and Pirates of the Carribean. I hate the idea of new Star Wars movies, but if anyone had to do it, I'm glad it's them, all jokes about Mickey Mouse aside.

As for the whole "canon" thing, when I talk about canon I'm not necessarily talking about it in the conventional sense of the word--basically, I'm misusing the term, but there's no better one. But what I'm talking about psychology, and the way your subconscious mind groups certain things, regardless of conscious thought.

Thank you for your civil responses, it's nice to see somebody who can produce them. On the internet, that's a rare enough thing.

 

[Konahrik the Forgotten]

You can't expect them to follow the novels completely. Adaptations do not work that way. Yes, I expect them to take several key components of the EU, but making a good movie and making a good novel are two completely different things. Yes, they will likely draw from these novels, but to re-tell them in order, following every detail? Nothing like that has ever happened and nor should it ever happen. I still maintain that they are going to die because that's how you make a good fantasy movie. At any rate, they'll be baggage both for the characters and the movie itself. You can't base an action-oriented movie around 3 senior citizens--it's not practical.

True, however at that point the movie itself is no longer canon. I do not expect them to follow every single detail, you are correct about that, however I do not expect them to kill off important characters that are not yet supposed to die. If they do (and that's a BIG if), it would no longer be a question of whether the movies are good or not, its the fact that they are not following the EU, therefore can no longer be considered canon to the storyline of the SWU.

I have to disagree with you there also. Disney did a fantastic job with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, not to mention other classics like Pirates of the Carribean. (Avatar's up there too, obviously, but honestly I think that was a bit of a letdown.) Disney are unfairly stereotyped in my opinion--of course, I can understand why, but if you look at the last decade and what movies will be remembered as the true blockbusters which it produced, you're looking at stuff like The Lord of the Rings, The Avengers, and Pirates of the Carribean. I hate the idea of new Star Wars movies, but if anyone had to do it, I'm glad it's them, all jokes about Mickey Mouse aside.

This was perhaps a bad form of wording on my part. I will not disagree that Disney has made some excelent films in the past. My ire towards them comes from the fact that half of the things they buy end up becoming more for children than anything (If you havent seen the Phineas and Ferb crossover with starwars thing they are planning, bless your soul. . .) . They are not bad with film-making, that much I can agree with. If anything, it is more of a fear that they will pretty much destroy my childhood (And unleash my wrath oFTo).

As for the whole "canon" thing, when I talk about canon I'm not necessarily talking about it in the conventional sense of the word--basically, I'm misusing the term, but there's no better one. But what I'm talking about psychology, and the way your subconscious mind groups certain things, regardless of conscious thought.

Meh, to each their own on that one, I guess. I don't plan on turning this into an debate on the psychological views of all of us. X3

 

[Darth Imperatus]

As far as "not following the EU" goes, they have the right to say that the EU is no longer canon if they need to. They are not going to base any decisions they make about the movie on the storyline of the EU, because the movies will be just as canon as the EU and they will be more important in Disney's eyes because the movies will make them around a million times more money.

[member="Konahrik the Forgotten"]

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

As far as "not following the EU" goes, they have the right to say that the EU is no longer canon if they need to. They are not going to base any decisions they make about the movie on the storyline of the EU, because the movies will be just as canon as the EU and they will be more important in Disney's eyes because the movies will make them around a million times more money.

[member="Konahrik the Forgotten"]

Well, to be honest, the films and Clone Wars series will be the most official canon. And they have always been, though. But yeah, all official films and series are more canon than EU. And personally speaking, I am perfectly fine with that.

 

[Darth Imperatus]

[member="Maria Natalja"]

Agreed. Though I'm obviously biased, as an aspiring director, it seems to me to be the only logical way to go about it.

 

[Kian Karr]

I'm very excited for the new movies. I loved the original movies and watched them until my VHS tapes fell apart! And terrible acting (you know who!) and Jar Jar aside, I loved Episode 1-3 as well. I have loved the comics and the books from those set in the rebellion era all the way to the legacy era. The fact that I'm posting this on a website dedicated to RPing star wars explains why I love it I think. The original movies are obviously the best, but for me Star Wars always existed far beyond them. It existed in the characters I imagined in my head when I played with sticks as lightsabers in the backyard (injuries were painful and often). It existed as a greater universe that was so vast that not even my imagination could fathom it. In addition to all this, I have always liked Disney movies and I have no doubt in my mind that they will do a fantastic job with these movies because they are Disney and also because they love money.

As for your not wanting to see Luke, Han, and Leia old....well who the hell likes getting old! Every time I look in the mirror I see a person staring back at me that is just a bit different then I was in what seems like just yesterday. However, their is beauty is seeing the passage of time and I look forward to seeing how the characters are going to be shown now that they are older. As for them dying. There is no death, there is only the force.

 

[Kairon Rees]

Pointless, they aren't after your ticket money.

They're after the merchandise cash.

 

[Nej Tane]

I haven't seen them so I can't judge them

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

It always good to try it out

 

[Ellie Mors]

I personally think the entire movie thing will be sort of how you would view an adaption of other novels, in that the movie is the retelling and the novel is the most accurate - especially in the case where someone new comes in and makes a new trilogy that is framed around the novels, but is changed to give people a reason to buy the tickets.

Now sure, I understand how it was when George Lucas was still at the helm of things but you need to understand that what Disney is saying is that their continuity and the EU splits from each other, in that the only reason they are changing the movies and such to not be perfectly aligned with EU is because anyone who read the novels would already know what to expect, or could look it up, and not really have a reason to go see it. This isn't a war on continuity, nor a war on our childhoods, it's just a way for them to make an interesting movie without re-hashing our already aged novels and comics when they could take examples and themes from them to make entirely new movies. I'll probably wait to see it until I can afford it, because I work 12 hours a day and I'm broke, but aside from that, it's impossible to be worse than George Lucas' prequels if it's Disney.

PS: I don't hate Lucas, I just dislike that everything he did after Episode IV was without thinking about the entire 6 part saga in mind, and just for the sake of those individual movies.

PPS: I liked Episode 1 and 3 of the original trilogy, but 2 was like a straight-to-dvd quality for me. The acting was there, but the content was not delivered and it felt short.