Question What's the difference between the Sith Covenant and the Sith Order?

[DeadpoolMLP]

I've been out of the Major game for a long while now, and I'm trying to catch up.

I'm seeing a lot of crossover between the two with major characters, and the two are melding together in my brain.

what's the actual difference?

 

[Quinn Varanin]

Locations

 

[Quinn Varanin]

DeadpoolMLP

Real answer tho, Darth Carnifex put it pretty nicely in the discords.

If this faction is like SWTOR's Sith Empire, then The Sith Covenant is like Exar Kun's Sith Brotherhood.

 

[DeadpoolMLP]

DeadpoolMLP

Real answer tho, Darth Carnifex put it pretty nicely in the discords.

If this faction is like SWTOR's Sith Empire, then The Sith Covenant is like Exar Kun's Sith Brotherhood.

 

[Quinn Varanin]

TSC: Collection of Sith with loose structure and governance, they are lead by a Triumvirate one died oops gg Arris Windrun

TSO: Structured, Classic Sith Empire, with hierarchy, etc. Governors and a Council as ruling bodies. Main Sith Imperial leadership with Empress and Emperor.

also locations, TSC is the Core while TSO is in the Firefist and the Western Reaches.

Yes we have overlap, we're homies.

We have similar goals, but different structure.

 

[Judah Dashiell]

We have similar goals, but different structure.

So really no difference then.

 

[Quinn Varanin]

So really no difference then.

But?

I... just stated it?

Okay then.

 

[Judah Dashiell]

Quinn Varanin

From an outside perspective, doesn't seem really different is all. Much like this Jedi schism in THR. Jedi power couple breaks up, some follow the elf and some follow the brooding one. Goals remain the same.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

The Sith Order (officially known as the Eleventh Sith Empire or just the Sith Empire) follows a highly centralized and bureaucratic structure ruled over by a single Sith Empress/Emperor, a Dark Council beneath them as the executive, and a Sith-Imperial Assembly as a legislature filled with governors, corpos, warlords, etc. It has ministries, a standardized professional army, and an organized religious body. It exerts direct control over the worlds beneath it, promulgating a shared law code over every planet and binding all those who live within it by those laws.

The Sith Covenant is ruled by a triumvirate (now just a duumvirate until they find someone to fill the gap) with a Sith Council comprised of every Sith ranked Knight and above, but without a centralized government. Each Sith of power or note maintains their own base of power, their own authority, infrastructure, treasury, and armed forces. No two Sith fiefdoms are exactly alike, and all within those fiefdoms answer to the Sith Lord who rules them. The Covenant is decentralized and as far as I can recall has no overarching law code, the fiefdoms all have their own rules and regulations. The Sith Council directs the whole of the Covenant insofar as war and the division of spoils.

Arris Windrun can factcheck me as I am way more familiar with the Sith Order than the Sith Covenant.

 

[Quinn Varanin]

Judah Dashiell

What it feels like with this example, that we should be one faction per type of concept? The stories and the characters are different even if there is overlap. The TSC, they are warlords conquering and taking. While the TSE's focus in is more on the grand scale of an Empire and building through with more stable/structured levels of government. TSC doesn't have a governor system for planetary rule, and instead is ran by a Triumvirate. etc. The brief explanation was a TLDR, to give a quick and dirty explanation.

Its why the examples given in the second post I did was:

TSC: Exar Kun's Sith Brotherhood which was more of a cult of personality (everyone following Exar Kun) and functioning unlike a formal empire
TSO: A formal Sith Empire

Thank you Darth Carnifex for providing a bit more in depth

 

[DeadpoolMLP]

Yes we have overlap, we're homies.

Maybe it's just because I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to the major game, but to me, it feels like that should be frowned upon.

Like, I get it, there's no rules saying it can't be that way, but also it makes the two factions feel samey, and the unappealing to someone who wants to interact with one but not the other.

It just makes the two feel more like one faction rather than separate factions.

 

[Quinn Varanin]

Like, I get it, there's no rules saying it can't be that way, but also it makes the two factions feel samey, and the unappealing to someone who wants to interact with one but not the other.

Because we're two Sith factions? There have been double Jedi Factions, IE: Galactic Alliance and the Silver Jedi. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong but there were 3 Jedi Majors at one point in the past. This isn't a new concept, its been done before and we have two Mando factions as well right now.

Having similar ideas and factions on the map isn't new and shouldn't discredit people and the work they've done because they are similar or have similar rooted concepts.

 

[Srina Talon]

pinches the bridge of her nose

The question has been asked and answered. I've already given lengthy information about toxicity, firestarting, as well as negativity, and yanking someone's chain when they're trying to be helpful is not only disingenuous but asinine. I'm literally watching Quinn Varanin get poked at like a fish on a hook for no reason other than trying to be of assistance. Multiple factions can exist from the same genre, be it Sith, Jedi, Mando, Imperial, etc. There is room on the map for everyone, and membership is not dictated by "loyalty" to one faction or another.

If there are actual questions and constructive conversation to be had, by all means, carry on. If not - Don't.

If I am in any way unclear, feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to elucidate.

 

[DeadpoolMLP]

Because we're two Sith factions? There have been double Jedi Factions, IE: Galactic Alliance and the Silver Jedi.

Yes, but there's a difference between double factions, and two factions that have a large crossover in player base.

I guess I'm just confused on were the separation is on an IC level. Would my characters see them as one large conglomerate, or two separate factions?

 

[WelshPsych]

Yes, but there's a difference between double factions, and two factions that have a large crossover in player base.

I guess I'm just confused on were the separation is on an IC level. Would my characters see them as one large conglomerate, or two separate factions?

Depends on you then, and how you write your characters. My Jedi characters see them different and my Sith, Eira, has seen TSC as a challenge to the TSO. Rivals but worthy ones.

But you can pose this to any Jedi faction. How did THR differ to GA? How did GA differ to SJO/SJC?

 

[Quinn Varanin]

Yes, but there's a difference between double factions, and two factions that have a large crossover in player base.

What's wrong with having crossover between player bases? I've always written across multiple factions, and I know plenty of other people do the same. Is that something we're suddenly not supposed to do? From what you're saying, it sounds like that's somehow a bad thing or reflects poorly on the major factions, and I don't really understand why.

We're not here to dictate where people choose to write. If there's crossover, then there's crossover.

The two Sith factions are also not at war. We're on friendly terms with one another, which I've already explained.

So I'm genuinely not understanding what the issue is or why the relationship between the two Sith factions seems to cause issue. From my perspective, it's a pretty straightforward arrangement.

 

[DeadpoolMLP]

From what you're saying, it sounds like that's somehow a bad thing or reflects poorly on the major factions, and I don't really understand why.

that's not what I'm trying to say, and if that's what I have implied, I apologize for poor word choice.

I'm just trying to understand how I'm supposed to both from an IC and OOC standpoint tell the two apart. When you have two factions that have very similar writer bases, it makes it feel like the two are effectively the same faction, and I don't want to make the mistake of stepping on anyone's toes by trying to claim they are. Clearly, they aren't, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to be separate majors.

 

[Aether Verd]

I'm seeing a lot of crossover between the two with major characters, and the two are melding together in my brain.

Likeminded factions, assuming they're not competing with each other, tend to hang out with each other. Pretty standard stuff.

what's the actual difference?

Sith Order = traditional Sith Empire, find your place in the hierarchy and grow from within, looks good in red/black
Sith Covenant = non-traditional Sith gathering, choose your own adventure, looks good in red/black, tend to have chiseled jawlines

Hope that helps!

 

[Soundwave]

It's a roleplay site. Figure it out IC. If you can't distinguish the two OOC then write out not knowing the difference between them IC and just lumping them all under the "They're all bad guys" umbrella or figuring out what's different between the two IC through threads observing each one.

You can't monopolize a faction theme. There can't just be one Jedi faction, one Sith faction, one Imperial faction, etc. If Faction A says, "You are not allowed to bomb this planet" but Faction B says, "Bomb whatever you want" and my character is of the more impulsive disposition, I'm going to go write in Faction B whenever I decide I want to blow something up.

Difference comes down to ideologies and what stories I can be permitted to write without getting kicked/banned for going against what makes narrative sense for the faction.

 

[Amara Zambrano]

I'm just trying to understand how I'm supposed to both from an IC and OOC standpoint tell the two apart. When you have two factions that have very similar writer bases, it makes it feel like the two are effectively the same faction, and I don't want to make the mistake of stepping on anyone's toes by trying to claim they are. Clearly, they aren't, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to be separate majors.

they have very different forms of governance. The best way to look at it that isn't quite as jokey as some of the replies you've gotten is that the sith covenant seems to be (in my opinion as an outsider looking in with about 3 seconds of glancing) a loosely held alliance of sith warlords that have what are essentially fiefdoms, so think medieval times, whereas the Sith Order is an empire led by a singular, clearly defined, imperial state apparatus.

Consider the US and the EU, the Sith Order would be a singular federal system, like the US is - the EU is a supranational organization that brings together many different states under one roof but isn't really a state on its own and only exists because the member states agree that it does, like the Sith Covenant is. (both of these examples are oversimplified, but the similar-but-different aspect is close enough to make a distinction imo)